Savvy Jack Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 I wonder if they will ever chamber it in 44-40.....I would buy one quick!http://www.ubertireplicas.com/product/1894-carabine-and-rifle/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 It does come in 38-55 which is a great cartridge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 This is just my opinion, but... the Winchester mdl 94 action is not well suited to short "revolver" length cartridges. I had one of the first 44 Magnum Winchester 94s made in 1969. While I love the 94, that rifle was a bit of a stretch to function properly and that length cartridge. It was stolen in 1974, and while I lament the loss, I've never felt the need to replace it. The mdl 1873, and 1894 Marlin are perfect for this cartridge. Celebrate the 94 for what it is... a medium length cartridge rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 30 minutes ago, Griff said: This is just my opinion, but... the Winchester mdl 94 action is not well suited to short "revolver" length cartridges. I had one of the first 44 Magnum Winchester 94s made in 1969. While I love the 94, that rifle was a bit of a stretch to function properly and that length cartridge. It was stolen in 1974, and while I lament the loss, I've never felt the need to replace it. The mdl 1873, and 1894 Marlin are perfect for this cartridge. Celebrate the 94 for what it is... a medium length cartridge rifle. I'd sure like to know how the Canadians like/d their Winchester 94's chambered for 44-40, an original mid-range rifle cartridge suitable for revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boggus Deal #64218 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 What Griff said. It work about as poorly as a ‘94 works in .44 Mag or .45 Colt. But a ‘92 in .44-40. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 No stupid safety. No stupid rebounding hammer. No stupid angle eject. Looks like a great gun. Nice to see proper ones for the first time since '83 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 Interesting and nice without all the recent Winchester “improvements”, but there are much better guns for 44-40. When I first started, I had a 1894 trapper in .45 colt. It was a terrible gun for CAS. Pretty often I would cycle the action fast enough to throw live cartridges off the elevator and right out the top of the action. I sold it and bought an 1873 and never looked back. That was 30+ years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 The whole point of the 94 is to handle the larger higher pressure cartridges the previous models would not. The action handles 3 1/2” cartridges much better than 1 1/2” cartridges. That’s what it was made for. There are other actions better suited to the 44WCF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 22 hours ago, Savvy Jack said: I'd sure like to know how the Canadians like/d their Winchester 94's chambered for 44-40, an original mid-range rifle cartridge suitable for revolvers. I wasn't aware that the 94 was ever made in .44-40. Canadians??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 As far as pistol cartridges go for the 94, the only ones I am aware of are some pre-83's in .44 Magnum, and the Winchester/Colt commemorative in .44-40. Both of which I'd like to have an example of because I think they'd be good for the collection, not out of any desire to use them for CAS. (But honesty compels me to say that I would try them both at least once.) I believe that post 83, whoever was making 94s for Winchester did chamber them for .45 Colt, but everyone I know, or know of, who has or has had one have said that they don't really work all that well. Given my personal contempt for the post 83 "Winchesters" I am not surprised that they don't work all that well. I have heard it said by those who have one that the pre-83's in .44 Magnum are marginally better that than the angle ejects in .45 Colt, but they are still not well suited for our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said: I wasn't aware that the 94 was ever made in .44-40. Canadians??? The 94 that was joined with a Colt that were commemoratives were both in .44-40, so yes it was made in .44-40 and I also had one in .44mag, Wrangler, 84-94 model with Large JW loop and it was my first rifle in SASS too. I would still have it if I hadn’t gotten an opportunity on a Colt Nickel Buntline in .44-40! I had issues with it because I couldn’t remember how the button safety worked. But loved it and would buy it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 7 minutes ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: The 94 that was joined with a Colt that were commemoratives were both in .44-40, so yes it was made in .44-40 and I also had one in .44mag, Wrangler, 84-94 model with Large JW loop and it was my first rifle in SASS too. I would still have it if I hadn’t gotten an opportunity on a Colt Nickel Buntline in .44-40! I had issues with it because I couldn’t remember how the button safety worked. But loved it and would buy it again. I had a Trail's End in .45 Colt, pretty nice rifle but when I got my first 73 it was obvious that the 94 wasn't the rifle for CAS, it was the 73 hands down! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 From what references I could find, the Canadian built 94s chambered for 44-40 suffered the same maladies the US made 44Mag and 45Colt guns made here did. The '94 action was just not optimized for short cartridges. The '94 does make a great 03-30 or 38-55 though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Killya Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 3 hours ago, Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 said: The 94 that was joined with a Colt that were commemoratives were both in .44-40, so yes it was made in .44-40 and I also had one in .44mag, Wrangler, 84-94 model with Large JW loop and it was my first rifle in SASS too. I would still have it if I hadn’t gotten an opportunity on a Colt Nickel Buntline in .44-40! I had issues with it because I couldn’t remember how the button safety worked. But loved it and would buy it again. That, the Wrangler, was my first rifle whem I started CAS nearly 20 years ago, but in .45 Colt. I didn't know any better and it was cheaper than an 1873. Many times I short cycled that gun only to hear "click". It had also had a bad chamber in it and would bulge/split about half the cases that came out of it. I love the coloring of the Uberti 1894. I wish that my Marlin 1894 was color case hardened as I think that it would be attractive and appealing to the eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoss Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 I have one in 38-55 Carbine lenght. great litle gun. I use it for Cody Dixon where offered in SASS matches. Biggest problem I have is after using my main match 73 that is short stroked and slicked up, when I go to the 94 i have to be careful to throw the lever the whole distance. The 94 is pretty smooth, and getting better with every round I put thru her, but the action is much differnt that the 73/66 toggle link and cant be short stroked. Loks like the guts fall out every time you lever it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texas Shane Posted February 18, 2020 Share Posted February 18, 2020 I really wanted one in 38-55 but my banker said NO! Very nice looking rifle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michigan Slim Posted February 19, 2020 Share Posted February 19, 2020 I'm currently eying a .38-55 with the long barrel. I have a 94 in .30-30 (2) and one in .44. I picked up an unfired .30-30 made in the 70's to retire my Pa's .30-30. I just want a .38-55 so I'll sell the one I just bought. Regarding the lever throw: Closest thing to a golf swing I'll ever do! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 I still have my 94' 30-30 made in 59' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 19, 2020 Author Share Posted February 19, 2020 On 2/17/2020 at 12:24 AM, Lead Monger said: The whole point of the 94 is to handle the larger higher pressure cartridges the previous models would not. Yeap, exactly....and is exactly what I plan on.! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 20, 2020 Author Share Posted February 20, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 On 2/16/2020 at 11:24 PM, Lead Monger said: The whole point of the 94 is to handle the larger higher pressure cartridges the previous models would not. The action handles 3 1/2” cartridges much better than 1 1/2” cartridges. That’s what it was made for. There are other actions better suited to the 44WCF. On 2/18/2020 at 7:19 PM, Savvy Jack said: Yeap, exactly....and is exactly what I plan on.! I certainly hope you're not planning on loaded your .44-40s to .30-30 levels... The .44WCF is still a relatively low pressure round suitable for BP firearms, except in the "HV" flavor. .30-30 = mid-high 30,000 C.U.P. .44-40 = low-10,000 C.U.P. .44-40HV = not to exceed 22,000 C.U.P. .44Mag = high 30,000 C.U.P. The 1892 and 1894 Browning designed rifles are both fine rifles, purposefully made for distinctly different lengths of ammo. The 1892 is basically a downsized 1886, capable of holding more pressure than the 1873, the home of the .44-40 (if one looks at what firearm was introduced with a specific cartridge). OAL of 1.600". Modern 1892 replicas are fully capable of handling higher pressure loads than the mdl 94. The 1894 Winchester was introduced to utilize a new, "flat-shooting" high pressure rounds suitable for big game hunting on the North American continent. With a cartridge length of 2.55". The greater length of the mdl 94 action allows the pistol length cartridges it's been built in (.357Mag, .44-40, .44Mag & 45 Colt) to rattle their way into the chamber with some degree of accuracy... which is far, far less than either the 1873 or 1892. The marriage of pistol length cartridges and Winchester 94 action is NOT a marriage made in heaven. With all that said, the .44-40 will probably fare much better feeding in a mdl 94 than any of it's similarly lengthed, "pistol" cartridges that have been chambered in it due to its bottleneck design... as long as semi-or full wadcutter ammo is not being used. My 1969 mdl 94 in 44Mag was atrocious at feeding. If being used for CAS, most experienced shooters will steer you away from the Winchester 94 and the Henry Big Boy... which I rank as similarly inappropriate firearms, (for CAS). And for the same reason that the short-lived Marlin 336-44 is not appropriate: lack of feed control. Due to my unfailing love affair with Winchester 94s (I have 30 of 'em, all happen to be .30-30s), for aesthetic reasons alone, I rank the mdl 94 above the Henry... At least the Uberti version isn't the abominable "AE" foisted off on the world by USRA... They at least had the good sense to clone the lovely and graceful design of JMB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Monger Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Hi pressure in a 92 or 94. I have a friend who has a Rossi 92 rifle chambered in 454 Cassual. It is the most obnoxious rifle I have ever fired. It is light weight, laude, has a massive blast and more recoil than expected. I would rather shoot a Marlin guide gun in 45/70. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 8 hours ago, Lead Monger said: Hi pressure in a 92 or 94. I have a friend who has a Rossi 92 rifle chambered in 454 Cassual. It is the most obnoxious rifle I have ever fired. It is light weight, laude, has a massive blast and more recoil than expected. I would rather shoot a Marlin guide gun in 45/70. . Yeap they can handle it I guess, good thing 44-40 High Pressure loads are no where near those pressures but still high enough to not be pleasant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 13 hours ago, Griff said: Modern 1892 replicas are fully capable of handling higher pressure loads than the mdl 94. The 1894 Winchester was introduced to utilize a new, "flat-shooting" high pressure rounds suitable for big game hunting on the North American continent. With a cartridge length of 2.55". The greater length of the mdl 94 action allows the pistol length cartridges it's been built in (.357Mag, .44-40, .44Mag & 45 Colt) to rattle their way into the chamber with some degree of accuracy... which is far, far less than either the 1873 or 1892. The marriage of pistol length cartridges and Winchester 94 action is NOT a marriage made in heaven. Great information Griff....and it makes 100% sense. I'll try to add some of that to the website some day if I merge the weapons that used the 44-40 cartridges into the Cartridge website. 44-40WCF.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted February 21, 2020 Share Posted February 21, 2020 Still have my Winchester '94 Trapper in 45 Colt. It was used in CAS in '96. IMHO the '94 in pistol cartridge is TERRIBLE for CAS (it will work, but clunky and slow). The one great thing about this handy carbine is that it will fire STOUT 45 Colt loads same as the '92 that the '60, 66, 73 rifles cannot. The only other lever rifle to be able to fire STOUT loaded 45 Colt is the Marlin '94 and Henry Big Boy. Of course STOUT loads are no good for CAS GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savvy Jack Posted February 21, 2020 Author Share Posted February 21, 2020 3 hours ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said: Still have my Winchester '94 Trapper in 45 Colt. It was used in CAS in '96. IMHO the '94 in pistol cartridge is TERRIBLE for CAS (it will work, but clunky and slow). The one great thing about this handy carbine is that it will fire STOUT 45 Colt loads same as the '92 that the '60, 66, 73 rifles cannot. The only other lever rifle to be able to fire STOUT loaded 45 Colt is the Marlin '94 and Henry Big Boy. Of course STOUT loads are no good for CAS GG ~ Correct. I posted this topic here because I know someone here would know something......but I don't shoot CAS any more so HV loads are always on my to-do list. NOT MY PREFERED load, but by all means, on my list. The Highest I have tested is 21,000psi (well in excess of 22,000cup) 44-40 loads and they ARE NOT fun to shoot....but yes, 33,000 has been used back in the 1930's and I have no desire for those loads. My 265 yard golf ball hits were 19,000psi loads used in my Marlin 1894CB. My preferred 44-40, non-cas, loads are: 10,485psi 25.8gr Reloder 7 My Accurate Molds custom design 220gr 43-214A sized .428 for my .429 bore Uberti 1873' with a Malcom scope.1,354fps closely replicating original black powder 1,325fps and original smokeless 1,300fps loads and gives a much flatter trajectory than today's factory loads of only 1,190fps loads as well as retains more energy at longer distances. 2019 Targets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted February 22, 2020 Share Posted February 22, 2020 i started all this with a 94 , i shot it a long time , i still have it and would gladly shoot it again , i settled into my 66 after trying a lot of options Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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