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Ideal Barrel Length for Cut Down SxS

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Q: is there an "ideal" barrel length for a CAS SxS?

For example, if I find a decent SxS in 28" barrel, and want it cut back to be a coach gun, is there an ideal?
I've seen 20" and 22" bandied about just a bit, but don't know if there is any advantage to either, specifically for CAS.

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I have had many a SKB cut. I personally like 20" but suggest that most like 22". Each has its slight plus versus other, 20" perhaps easier to handle, 22" has little more weight at barrel end to help in barrel dropping open.  I don't have problem with 20" dropping but if one did small shot can be added in channel between barrels to give weight.   

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16 minutes ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

I have had many a SKB cut. I personally like 20" but suggest that most like 22". Each has its slight plus versus other, 20" perhaps easier to handle, 22" has little more weight at barrel end to help in barrel dropping open.  I don't have problem with 20" dropping but if one did small shot can be added in channel between barrels to give weight.   

 

This-

You can always remove -  YOU can't put back what's cut off.

OLG 

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Many double shotgun makers make guns with 20 inch barrels, none in 22 inch. I have dealt with three shotgun gunsmiths and all recommend cutting to 22 inch on SKB's and Browning's. They will all cut to your requested length.

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My AyA ten double has 20" barrels. I love it!!!  :wub:

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Mine are cut to make the overall shotgun length the same as my rifles.  Can’t prove that makes them faster but they look good in the gun cart, and I can use the same cases for transporting all of them.

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Have had both. I prefer 22

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13 hours ago, Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator said:

I have had many a SKB cut. I personally like 20" but suggest that most like 22". Each has its slight plus versus other, 20" perhaps easier to handle, 22" has little more weight at barrel end to help in barrel dropping open.  I don't have problem with 20" dropping but if one did small shot can be added in channel between barrels to give weight.   

+1

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9 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Mine are cut to make the overall shotgun length the same as my rifles.  Can’t prove that makes them faster but they look good in the gun cart, and I can use the same cases for transporting all of them.

 

+1 for style points. :D

OLG 

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I have 20" and 18.25" barreled guns

 

But my go to gun Is a double with 26" tubs

 

I just like the way it swings and stops on target

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I'd shoot the gun as made for a while. You might like it as is. Photos from the old west that show shotguns invariably show long barrels. The extra weight and length might make you a nanosecond slower, but you can worry about that later when you have a better idea of exactly what you want. 

 

Reverend Chase

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Nah.  Those are all just too long.  A prime waste of steel.  I personally cut mine to 18 1/4.  Only reason I add the quarter inch is 'cause some feds get righteous annoyed when the length is egg-zack-lee 18 inches (Fed Legal Minimum).   Most all the commercial manufacture coach guns, especially the higher end guns come in at 20 inches.  I can live with 20 inches in my high end guns.  The difference in velocity and pattern density is academic and the guns swing target to target some easier/faster.

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10 hours ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

Mine are cut to make the overall shotgun length the same as my rifles.  Can’t prove that makes them faster but they look good in the gun cart, and I can use the same cases for transporting all of them.

If I did that I’d need to buy a lot more shotguns to match barrel

lengths of all my rifles. Hmm now there’s a thought 

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The great advantage to 20" or shorter barrel lengths is maneuvering around obstacles... door frames, window frames, etc...  Other'n that, negligible.   

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18 hours ago, bgavin said:

Q: is there an "ideal" barrel length for a CAS SxS?

For example, if I find a decent SxS in 28" barrel, and want it cut back to be a coach gun, is there an ideal?
I've seen 20" and 22" bandied about just a bit, but don't know if there is any advantage to either, specifically for CAS.

b, as you can tell by the many posts of varying preferences, you really need to try different pards guns.  If you just swing them and open/close them, get an idea what YOU like.  I don't know the seriousness of your competitive drive but much can be spend on a shotgun to make it a "race gun".  Most any good shotgun smith, be it Fast Eddie, Lefty Wheeler, Boomstick, Johnny Meadow, Doc Noper, or others,  will recommend polishing chambers, beveling chamber entrance, tuning springs, lengthen forcing cones, etc, so there will be near as much expense in getting it genuine competitively ready as cost of gun alone.  Cutting barrels is a major issue in order to get it like you want, but more than likely a "small pea in the pod" to final money spent. 

I, personally, like Briley's work in lengthening forcing cones in combination to back bore of barrels.  Certainly not a must in CAS, but something I have grown to favor.  I tried choke tubes on one of my first SKBs that Briley cut and preformed their expertise to but found far more than needed in CAS.  However, the back bore process and short barrels I still find pleasing.  I'm sure you have already seen CAS is just another emphasis on "kids and their toys"....we're just big kids when it comes to enjoying this great sport.

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B.B. my question is mostly centered around downsizing a SxS with 28" barrels.

I just missed a 70s Charles Daly 500 (Miroku) on GunBroker.
Also looking around at Stevens 311's etc.
Both of these come with 28+ inch barrels.

The 60s and 70s era guns appear to the high water mark for both craftsmanship and metallurgy.
After my experience with a brand new dead Stoeger, I am soured on cheapies from Brazil and Turkey.
I like things made with craftsmanship and quality.

We are both interested in the camaraderie, the social life, and the fun.
Not in beating the clock.

I am also interested in the reloading and the ballistics.
Neither of us will ever give Tully Mars, Doc Shapiro, or any of the others in our local posse, a run for their money.
As long as the shotgun shoots, and doesn't break after 12 shells, I'm good.


 

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Start out with long barrels and see how you like them.  Cut down as needed.  The Steven's 311's will work better with longer barrels.

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It also depends on the size of the shooter.  It looks like there may be two of you shooting, if there is much difference in size you need two shotguns, or fit the stock to the smaller person and then you just deal with it for now.  A tall person can make 22 in look short.  It also depends on the layout of props and such.  You don't have to stick the barrels out the window or door.  I am 6'6" and shoot a 30 in 97 without much trouble getting around, I am also not very fast, never was and now I am in the Cattle Baron cat.

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1 hour ago, bgavin said:

B.B. my question is mostly centered around downsizing a SxS with 28" barrels.

I just missed a 70s Charles Daly 500 (Miroku) on GunBroker.
Also looking around at Stevens 311's etc.
Both of these come with 28+ inch barrels.

The 60s and 70s era guns appear to the high water mark for both craftsmanship and metallurgy.
After my experience with a brand new dead Stoeger, I am soured on cheapies from Brazil and Turkey.
I like things made with craftsmanship and quality.

We are both interested in the camaraderie, the social life, and the fun.
Not in beating the clock.

I am also interested in the reloading and the ballistics.
Neither of us will ever give Tully Mars, Doc Shapiro, or any of the others in our local posse, a run for their money.
As long as the shotgun shoots, and doesn't break after 12 shells, I'm good.


 

 

Understand.   and you are shooting with some good ones for sure.

I also had Stoeger  broken lug trouble in early years.   

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20 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

My AyA ten double has 20" barrels. I love it!!!  :wub:

Is this a 10 ga double....I have I am thinking of shortening mine....Load info for your 10 would be nice...

 

Texas Lizard

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My Spanish AyA is a ten gauge 3-1/2" double with 20" barrels.

 

My loading information is rather sparse. I pour 2 dippers of Fg 1-1/2 into my brass 3-1/2" shells, cover with a nitro wad, put in 3 fiber wads, add 2 dippers of  7-1/2 shot and seal with an overshot wad covered with a lot of Duco Cement.

 

I do something similar with my 8 gauge 4-1/4" double but use Fg.

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19 minutes ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

My Spanish AyA is a ten gauge 3-1/2" double with 20" barrels.

 

My loading information is rather sparse. I pour 2 dippers of Fg 1-1/2 into my brass 3-1/2" shells, cover with a nitro wad, put in 3 fiber wads, add 2 dippers of  7-1/2 shot and seal with an overshot wad covered with a lot of Duco Cement.

 

I do something similar with my 8 gauge 4-1/4" double but use Fg.

Good starting point...Need to see Jim Bowie next week to do some cutting....

 

Thanks for the info...

 

Texas Lizard

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5 hours ago, Griff said:

The great advantage to 20" or shorter barrel lengths is maneuvering around obstacles... door frames, window frames, etc...  Other'n that, negligible.   

This is the only advantage IMHO.

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One gunsmith told me that if you have the barrels cut to 22-24” it leaves room if the ends get damaged to recut the barrels.

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Posted (edited)

After a very long time... my new (to me) Miroku Daly 500 went to the trap range today.

This is the one I got from Deuce Stevens.
It is a high range serial number Miroku/Charles Daly 500, so I assume it is a 70s era gun.

The fit and finish are simply superb.
No other way to describe it.
This one also got the full slick treatment from Doc Noper... a bit of a shake and both shell eject out perfectly.
It is running 20" barrels, no chokes, and the cut-down job was very nicely done.

I patterned it at SASS distances and find both barrels are a wee bit High and a wee bit Left.
Nice and consistent, with a decent pattern.
Shooting with my usual trap loads, it kicks like a gov't mule (as I expected).
After finding the pattern, I was able to hit a few clays at standard distances, even with a coach gun.

I'm seeing a real pattern here... 50 year old guns are better made.

Thanks to Tyrel or Sedalia for alerting me to this when Deuce put it up for sale.
This is such a keeper...(!)

Edited by bgavin

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On 2/15/2020 at 8:35 PM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

24 inches .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

My preference too.

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bgavin .... I forgot to point out, none of my shotguns, regardless of barrel length, have internal hammers.  My guns are all hammer doubles and require no help to open nor stay open.  My favored guns are ALL high end guns.  I shoot a Pedersoli Hammer double with 20 inch barrels, a Pietta Hammer double with 21+ inch barrels and an antique J.P. Sauer with 18 1/4 inch barrels.  I still prefer short barrel doubles.  Your Knew-Two-Ewe double should serve you well.

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Posted (edited)
On 2/17/2020 at 5:55 AM, Snake-eye, SASS#45097 said:

One gunsmith told me that if you have the barrels cut to 22-24” it leaves room if the ends get damaged to recut the barrels.


How would the ends of the barrels get damaged?

Just seems odd to me.

 

Cat Brules

Edited by Cat Brules

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Posted (edited)

I can't say if there is an "ideal" length for a CAS SxS as I am no expert.  Since you mentioned cutting a 28", that is the way I went.  I called Boomstick Jay at Boomstick Arms in TX and he recommended 22" for the Charles Daly 512 I had (28" barreled model).  He did  "the works" on it, cut barrels to 22", new front sight bead, action job, lengthened the forcing cones, polished the chambers, beveled the chamber mouths and cut the stock to my preferred LOP and installed a KickEz recoil pad.  Jay really did a excellent job and it turned out perfect, so much so I sent him a second CD to give it "the works".  I like the CD, it is light, narrow, feels good in my hands, and points quickly.  I'm more confident in my ability to handle and manipulate the CD which I believe is improving my shotgun times.  Back to the original question, of 22" versus 20" and is one an advantage over the other for CAS?  Don't have a clue, too bad you didn't live close by, I would let you shoot a match with the 22" to see if you prefer one over the other.  One of my mentors in this game, Major BS Walker says guns are tools and a good tool makes the job easier, very true.  Good luck. 

Edited by Bingo Montana

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Bingo, did you find a noticeable difference by using the Kick-EEZ pad?

 

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In a perfect world, 14".  But that just aint gonna happen without a lot of extra government papers, and then you wouldn't be able to use it in SASS anyways.

 

Always wanted a true trapper winchester too, with a 12" or 14" barrel.  Seems like it would be right handy at that length.  Alas, being in California, SBR's are not allowed.  So I will have to be happy with my 16" trapper.

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Posted (edited)

Have had .20, .22 & .24. I prever .22

Edited by Revolvgang

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