Alpo Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Guy did something similar to this in a book. Wondering if it would really work. According to the net, the average temperature in a house fire is 1100 degrees Fahrenheit. Again, according to the net, mid-range ceramics are fired up to about 2300 degrees Fahrenheit. The man in the book built a fireproof safe in his house, that was basically a hidden pottery kiln (he was relying more on burglars not being able to find it, then he was on burglars not being able to break into it). He had money in it, and paper money burns pretty easily. But (so it says in the book) the house could have burned down around it twice and not damaged the money. It seems to me that if it could be 2300° INSIDE the kiln, and not set everything around it on fire, then 13 or 1400° OUTSIDE should not heat the inside of it to the 451° needed to burn paper. What y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Alpo said: It seems to me that if it could be 2300° INSIDE the kiln, and not set everything around it on fire, then 13 or 1400° OUTSIDE should not heat the inside of it to the 451° needed to burn paper. What y'all think? It depends on the type of brick he used. If you use a soft insulating fire brick, no problem. In college (then it was Palomar Junior College) I took some pottery classes and had a job as an assistant in that department. Two of the kilns didn't have a swinging door, we just bricked it up. Had to have a spyhole to look at the cones or to draw out rings when we did a salt fire. Used a soft brick to plug it (unless it was a salt fire) and it would be glowing yellow on the inside end but you could hold the outside without a glove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984 Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 If the average is 1100°, there could be some PDH hot areas in the house because you know there will be areas that are not very hot at all. oh, Pretty Darned Hot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Subdeacon Joe said: It depends on the type of brick he used. If you use a soft insulating fire brick, no problem. In college (then it was Palomar Junior College) I took some pottery classes and had a job as an assistant in that department. Two of the kilns didn't have a swinging door, we just bricked it up. Had to have a spyhole to look at the cones or to draw out rings when we did a salt fire. Used a soft brick to plug it (unless it was a salt fire) and it would be glowing yellow on the inside end but you could hold the outside without a glove. Last time I was out there they’re still using those kilns plus a few more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 53 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: Last time I was out there they’re still using those kilns plus a few more. When I was there we had Big Bertha, a large downdraft kiln, that was used mainly for bisque firing and had a roll in, roll out rack and Little Bertha which was about a 24 cubic foot downdraft for glaze firing up to Cone 10. Then a small downdraft that was designated as a salt kiln. An Olson 36 and an Olson 24 updraft kilns that were used mainly for glaze firing. There were 5 or 6 electrics that were used for lowfire and ceramic sculpture ware. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc X Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 I was a firefighter for 15 years. Saw any number of gun safes go through fires. Never saw a gun come out of one that I'd shoot. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 You done give me an idea Alpo. My wife has an electric kiln we paid an arm and a leg for, and she fired it maybe 3 times. Been collecting dust ever since and she won't sell it. Damn thing may be good for something after all. Insulation does work both ways, I bet paper would definitely survive in a kiln in a house fire. Regards, JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Doc X said: I was a firefighter for 15 years. Saw any number of gun safes go through fires. Never saw a gun come out of one that I'd shoot. YMMV. Were they fireproof safes? Got my expensive guns in one. I guess if the house burns down that will be a small worry, but that worries me. A buddy of mine is a retired firefighter too, he always said that in a catastrophic fire where the roof caves in the safe and guns will probably be destroyed even if it's fire proof. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, Capt. James H. Callahan said: he always said that in a catastrophic fire where the roof caves in the safe and guns will probably be destroyed even if it's fire proof. You have to read the rating on the safe. Most "fireproof" safes are "fire resistant" and offer only a limited protection. They may be rated something like "30 minutes at 1200 degrees F" with a theoretical maximum internal temperature of 350 degrees F. https://www.deansafe.com/pages/an-explanation-of-fire-ratings-for-home-safes-and-gun-safes https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2011/01/choosing-and-using-a-home-safe/index.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calamity Kris Posted February 9, 2020 Share Posted February 9, 2020 Something for you to think about, Alpo is the housing construction here in Florida. If your house is cinder block construction, like most of them here are, any fire will be considerably hotter than a wood construct house. The same bricks that hold the hurricanes out will hold the heat and fire in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duffield, SASS #23454 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I am told that even if a fireproof safe survives the fire it is hot inside and as it cools it sucks corrosive vapors into itself, and this causes much damage to your guns. Duffield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 If I wanted anything stored so as to survive a fire in a house, I would have a root cellar dug out and the safe would be in the root cellar and back filled with clay on all sides and the top and the safe would be waterproof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 What Duffield said. Safes are not fire proof. They are fire resistant. The fire resistance comes from the gasket in the door. Heat causes it to swell, sealing the inside. Once the fire is out and the safe cools the gasket will condense and allow air in. Air with water from the fire. Which will ruin most of the guns. Why? Because once the fire is out most jurisdictions won't allow anyone into the scene until they clear it for safety and or investigation. Which could be days or weeks. Papers are also ruined by the heat and moisture. The other side of this is most buy fire resistant safes. But they have no burglary rating. The sides are made of thin gauge sheet metal, the fire resistance comes from a layer of 1/2' or 5/8' gyp board. The door looks all safe. Most safes broken into are by using a saw with a metal blade on the sides. Bend the steel back and reach in and grab whatever. YouTube has a bunch of videos on safes, and how they fail and are broken into. My safe has a burglar rating because it's walls are concrete and thicker steel. Also bolted to the floor. Insurance liked that. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc X Posted February 12, 2020 Share Posted February 12, 2020 On 2/10/2020 at 12:11 PM, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: What Duffield said. Safes are not fire proof. They are fire resistant. The fire resistance comes from the gasket in the door. Heat causes it to swell, sealing the inside. Once the fire is out and the safe cools the gasket will condense and allow air in. Air with water from the fire. Which will ruin most of the guns. Why? Because once the fire is out most jurisdictions won't allow anyone into the scene until they clear it for safety and or investigation. Which could be days or weeks. Papers are also ruined by the heat and moisture. The other side of this is most buy fire resistant safes. But they have no burglary rating. The sides are made of thin gauge sheet metal, the fire resistance comes from a layer of 1/2' or 5/8' gyp board. The door looks all safe. Most safes broken into are by using a saw with a metal blade on the sides. Bend the steel back and reach in and grab whatever. YouTube has a bunch of videos on safes, and how they fail and are broken into. My safe has a burglar rating because it's walls are concrete and thicker steel. Also bolted to the floor. Insurance liked that. Ike Thanks for saving me the typing Irish! I saw both styles after the fact, sorry to say never noted much difference in outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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