Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum

My setup for 45CS (Cowboy Special)


Roscoe Regulator

Recommended Posts

8 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

You have your own experience, but have you ever pulled a bullet and measured its resulting diameter? Usually a Lee FCD with lead bullets feels like sizing the bullet.

I minimally bell the brass and crimp lightly...only enough to reduce the flare.  Shooting out of a revolver.  Same crimp "tightness" for the acp loads so not much needed there either on the 1911.  A little tighter crimp on the 45 colt fullsize for the tube magazine in the rifle but not much.  look at the photo...doesn't appear any deformation.  If I take apart a round, the hitek coating shows no cracking.  With the BP loads, I want a snug crimp for minimal blowback in the straightwall brass, not excessive.  Its a light 2 fingers on the handle pressure when crimping occurs, not a firm press like resizing the case in the first step.  Maybe the close up shows the extent of the crimps.

IMG_20190204_192926.jpg.6b848d3da2bf7a0cfe2164a9d8e2d9ee.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Using a 45 Auto crimp die will almost never give you a roll crimp.  They are usually designed to give a taper crimp, turning into a crushing taper crimp when over tightened.   The .45 Colt or a .45 Auto Rim crimp die works SO MUCH better.  The .45 Colt only crimp stem can be lowered far enough.

 

That's why I use a .45 Auto Rim crimp die (as I stated many posts above).

 

Good luck, GJ

And based on your previous post I ordered a Redding Profile Crimp die for 45 AR...last one Midway had and discounted to $30, free shipping on a $50 order. I added a 44/45 shellplate for my Auto Breechlock Pro to move 45 CS to progressive production. If I size in bulk and hand prime I will open a station (4-hole) for a dedicated crimp.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Trooper Ozzy said:

I minimally bell the brass and crimp lightly...only enough to reduce the flare.  Shooting out of a revolver.  Same crimp "tightness" for the acp loads so not much needed there either on the 1911.  A little tighter crimp on the 45 colt fullsize for the tube magazine in the rifle but not much.  look at the photo...doesn't appear any deformation.  If I take apart a round, the hitek coating shows no cracking.  With the BP loads, I want a snug crimp for minimal blowback in the straightwall brass, not excessive.  Its a light 2 fingers on the handle pressure when crimping occurs, not a firm press like resizing the case in the first step.  Maybe the close up shows the extent of the crimps.

IMG_20190204_192926.jpg.6b848d3da2bf7a0cfe2164a9d8e2d9ee.jpg

I did "look at the photo" and thought those wouldn't suit me unless roll crimped like the 45 Colts. That would be with smokeless.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In between rainstorms and other commitments I got to the range with more test loads. I got some mild muzzle flip but both loads are 5-10% under published minimum (Lyman cast book). I thought 4.9 of Titegroup might be a bit more of a jump from the previous 4.5. I had just stepped to the next autodisk aperture. I could split the difference to 4.7 with an adjustable charge bar, a double disk, or switching to an autodrum without disk increments. 4.9 TG/160 shoots okay, but I favored the W231/HP38 load result. The 6.0-6.1 of HP38, about 5% under Lyman's published minimum, seemed like the kind of feel I was used to with 38s in smaller guns. I was firing a 5 1/2" barrel Vaquero. I went ahead and loaded 60+ rounds with HP38 and will not go further until experiencing a match with this load.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I use a RCBS sizer, the .45 thru expander on my Dillon 550B, a 45ACP Roll Crimp/Seater die with 160 grain RFN bullets from Badman.  

54CQ3e5.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Griff said:

I use a RCBS sizer, the .45 thru expander on my Dillon 550B, a 45ACP Roll Crimp/Seater die with 160 grain RFN bullets from Badman.  

54CQ3e5.jpg

Does that crimp use the crimp groove? Can't tell from pic. Here's the bullet.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

Does that crimp use the crimp groove? Can't tell from pic. Here's the bullet.

Yes, here's a better picture of that

2186Mi5.jpg

Remember, where the crimp is applied is all a matter of die adjustment.  A combination of die and seater depth.  While independently adjustable, both are contingent of the other for proper adjustment to have a properly seated and crimped cartridge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, the C45S loads look nice.

 

Now, I'd take a look at your .45 Colt crimp.   I see a couple of cartridges that have a perfectly lousy crimp - the case mouth is hanging out past the lead and waiting to snag a barrel breech while trying to hit the chamber.  All look less than robust.

 

Good luck, GJ  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Yes, the C45S loads look nice.

 

Now, I'd take a look at your .45 Colt crimp.   I see a couple of cartridges that have a perfectly lousy crimp - the case mouth is hanging out past the lead and waiting to snag a barrel breech while trying to hit the chamber.  All look less than robust.

 

Good luck, GJ  

That is a good catch. I saw that too. They actually looked pretty good under magnification but I ran a few back through the crimp, which made a difference I could feel and see. The thing is that, if room is left for case length variance, the case mouth is not necessarily hidden, yet is bent in well enough to feed just fine. All of my ammo has passed a cartridge gauge. These will be run in a JM Marlin Cowboy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On ‎2‎/‎7‎/‎2020 at 10:33 AM, Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 said:

I use the Hornady die set recommended by Adirondack Jack when he started selling the 45 Cowboy Specials:

 

"The very best results to date have been achieved using Hornady New Dimension .45 caliber dies no. 546554.

Note Hornady uses the same dies for .45 Colt, ACP, Autorim, and win mag.

They produce a proper roll crimp, and use a sliding bullet guide that aids in seating even very short bullets straight."

 

if you wish to read his article, link here.

http://74.220.214.175/nick/cowboy45special.pdf

 

--Dawg

Have these dies already so will try my hand at C45S. Planning to size with the 45 colt die, Dillon 45 colt expander in my Dillon powder measure and set the seater die to both seat and crimp

Thinking the 45 colt shell plate and pins will work on my Dillon 550 to hold the cases securely?

Regards

 

:FlagAm: :FlagAm: :FlagAm:

 

Gateway Kid

Link to comment
Share on other sites

57 minutes ago, Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life said:

Thinking the 45 colt shell plate and pins will work on my Dillon 550 to hold the cases securely?

Sure does.  Exactly the shell plate/pins I use.  The C45S is just a cut off .45 Colt case.

 

Good luck, GJ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Sure does.  Exactly the shell plate/pins I use.  The C45S is just a cut off .45 Colt case.

 

Good luck, GJ 

Thank you!

Gateway

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

I got to the range to test 45CS 160 gr with 4.7 gr of Titegroup. Recall that I thought 4.9 was not as mild as I wanted. The 4.7 worked well, while having an odd pop! to it. It is better than 4.5 feeling too light and 4.9 feeling a bit more than necessary.

 

On the 45 Colts, I found that the trim length ranges had gotten mixed, causing some crimps to appear too light on the shorter cases. I use two trim lengths, 1.265 and 1.275 nominals +-.005 on each, measured after sizing. I have to keep measuring after cleaning cases, because I could bring home someone else's brass, even while confining mine to Starline and Winchester head stamps.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TG is very temperature sensitive at the lower load levels. 

What works today,  may be a fizzle in the cold.

.02 gn of powder Is not gonna do much to felt recoil.

You have more recoil in hot weather.

 

OLG 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

TG is very temperature sensitive at the lower load levels. 

What works today,  may be a fizzle in the cold.

.02 gn of powder Is not gonna do much to felt recoil.

You have more recoil in hot weather.

 

OLG 

That would be .2 gr and in percentage terms would be about 4% reduction. I didn't shoot 4.9 and 4.7 in the same outing for a genuine comparison but felt like the 4.7 was different than I remembered. I know I didn't have the impression that I could reduce the 4.7 like I did for 4.9 and that I could just go with it for now. The Titegroup is only a test, while my current match ammo is HP38.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Roscoe Regulator said:

That would be .2 gr and in percentage terms would be about 4% reduction. I didn't shoot 4.9 and 4.7 in the same outing for a genuine comparison but felt like the 4.7 was different than I remembered. I know I didn't have the impression that I could reduce the 4.7 like I did for 4.9 and that I could just go with it for now. The Titegroup is only a test, while my current match ammo is HP38.

 

Most power measures will very +/- .02 gn, all day long.

WW231/HP38 is a far better choice of powder IMO.

OLG 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 2/7/2020 at 12:44 PM, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

First a very quick CAVEAT:  I load on Dillon 650s.  So I'm jaundiced BLUE.  Anyway, I run straight Dillon 45 Dies with one exception.  Resize and de-prime is standard Dillon 45 Colt.  Expander and powder drop is standard Dillon 45 ACP.  Bullet seater is standard Dillon 45 ACP with the punch flipped and the crimp die is a Redding 45 Auto Rim Profile Crimp.  I don't use 45 ACP to resize because it puts an ever so slight taper on the case which promulgates Blow-By.  I also don't use a 45 ACP taper crimp as I run my C45S in several rifles.  Don't trust a taper crimp for the rifles.

Same setup here for my wife’s ammo.  200gr RNFP in the rifle w/4gr Bullseye. 160gr RNFP in her pistol load w/3.2gr Bullseye. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 3/13/2020 at 7:09 PM, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Most power measures will very +/- .02 gn, all day long.

 

Believe you mean 0.2 grains variance.   It would be a VERY RARE powder measure that could hold 0.02 grains variance.  Many individual granules of powders weigh more than 0.02 grains! 

 

Most loading scales, digital or mechanical, can't measure closer than 0.1 grain +/- reliably.   Not that they need to - most loads do not require that much accuracy of powder charge.

 

An extra or missing zero after a decimal point makes a difference.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Years ago I was told about the Clay's being temp sensitive so I loaded a bunch of my 44 spl (which was my MM ammo back then) and put in the freezer overnight. The next dat I put the ammo in a plastic bag in a cooler full of ice and went straight to the range....about a 15 minute drive. The chronograph didn't show enough difference between that and the ammo that was about 80 deg unless I would have shot 100 rounds and charted it out.

 

I think from what I have seen the only people having issues with Clays in really cold weather are shooting basement level loads (or less) and then it might be an issue but if you are setting comfortably in the recommended load levels I don't think you will have any issues......I never did. 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Believe you mean 0.2 grains variance.   It would be a VERY RARE powder measure that could hold 0.02 grains variance.  Many individual granules of powders weigh more than 0.02 grains! 

 

Most loading scales, digital or mechanical, can't measure closer than 0.1 grain +/- reliably.   Not that they need to - most loads do not require that much accuracy of powder charge.

 

An extra or missing zero after a decimal point makes a difference.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

 

You're 'rite'- 

Fat fingers on small keyboard .....

+/- 0.2

OLG 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

I think from what I have seen the only people having issues with Clays in really cold weather are shooting basement level loads (or less) and then it might be an issue but if you are setting comfortably in the recommended load levels I don't think you will have any issues......I never did. 

 

The temperature weakness that I saw with very low power .38 special loads 8-10 years ago could well have been due to how the Australian maker was formulating the powder.   There have been fewer reports of cold weather problems since Hodgdon switched Clays to  be manufactured in Canada after the Australian plant burned.  

 

?? Could it be Canadians know how to make cold-weather powder and Australians don't? ?   :lol:

 

good luck, GJ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.