Stock Marlin vs Out of box widdermatic

[Dr Matt Lurse]

Looking at some Marlin 1894s mainly for WBAS (so in .45) with a bit of cowboy and have a few questions that I’d like some opinions on—It probably won’t be shot super hard or fast for the first year or two.

 

1. Keep one stock until/if problems then ship it off to a smith to get it fixed, or just nip it in the bud and get one already converted to angle feed? 

2.  Can angle feed Marlins be short stroked, or are these mutually exclusive on the 1894s— aka pick one?

 

As an aside:  I currently have/use an 1897 but find the load 1 drill for cowboy to be a hard pill to swallow.  Am I being crazy for seriously considering going with an 1887 over a sxs for cowboy?

 

Thanks!

 

[Injun Ryder, SASS #36201L]

6 minutes ago, Dr Matt Lurse said:

As an aside:  I currently have/use an 1897 but find the load 1 drill for cowboy to be a hard pill to swallow.  Am I being crazy for seriously considering going with an 1887 over a sxs for cowboy?

 

Yes. But in a good way!

 

(Been shooting an '87 for almost 20 years.)

[Captain Bill Burt]

32 minutes ago, Dr Matt Lurse said:

Looking at some Marlin 1894s mainly for WBAS (so in .45) with a bit of cowboy and have a few questions that I’d like some opinions on—It probably won’t be shot super hard or fast for the first year or two.

 

1. Keep one stock until/if problems then ship it off to a smith to get it fixed, or just nip it in the bud and get one already converted to angle feed? 

2.  Can angle feed Marlins be short stroked, or are these mutually exclusive on the 1894s— aka pick one?

 

As an aside:  I currently have/use an 1897 but find the load 1 drill for cowboy to be a hard pill to swallow.  Am I being crazy for seriously considering going with an 1887 over a sxs for cowboy?

 

Thanks!

 

If you're likely to have it smithed eventually I would go ahead and do it now.  Why put up with a rough action when you don't have to.

 

I don't think you can short stroke a Marlin, at least not to the degree we short stroke Winchester/Ubertis, but I'll defer to people who actually shoot those and work on Marlins.

 

I'm going to pick an 1887 up, just because they're cool, but I doubt I could run one as quick as I could a good SKB double.  I'm sure there are people out there who can run an 1887 faster than I can run a double, but I would be willing to bet the difference in speed would not be as great as if we were both running doubles.  I've seen lots of people have trouble 'dropping two' into an 1887.  Loading two into a double is pretty straightforward.  Just my two cents, I'm sure other's will believe differently. 

 

 

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

The '87 lever has a steep learn'n curve. 

My wife  and I use'em and dig the cool factor.

OP, have you been to a shot yet, and done any 'hands on' live fire?

If NO- You need to before you buy anydangthing. 

OLG 

[Cat Brules]

Learning to LOAD TWO into an ‘87 is not that difficult.

 

(It’s SASS legal to do so.)

 

Cat Brules

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

5 hours ago, Dr Matt Lurse said:

As an aside:  I currently have/use an 1897 but find the load 1 drill for cowboy to be a hard pill to swallow.  Am I being crazy for seriously considering going with an 1887 over a sxs for cowboy?

 

I found an 87 was easier for me to master than a SXS. I now own 4. Two IAC and 2 Norinco.  Two are stock and two have Lassiter action jobs. My Baikal SXS sits in the safe as a loaner when I need one.

 

If you are going to get an 87 get one with Lassiter's action job. 

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

You will have a more harmonious outcome with any firearm that is slicked up over a stock one. 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I wasn't aware there is an 'Out of the box Widdermatic'.

 

But if there is, its bound to be better than a 'stock' model.

 

Actually, a Carty Marlin, Slick McClade Marlin or a Longhunter Marlin is better than

a stock Marlin..... much better.

 

As for the 87 vs 97 vs SxS, that is a total individual preference.

My first couple years in SASS, I tried the SxS to no avail.   I just couldn't seem to get it right.

Then I switched to the 97 and all is well.

Many a good shooter have experienced the opposite.

 

Good luck.

 

..........Widder

 

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

11 hours ago, Dr Matt Lurse said:

Looking at some Marlin 1894s mainly for WBAS (so in .45) with a bit of cowboy and have a few questions that I’d like some opinions on—It probably won’t be shot super hard or fast for the first year or two.

 

1. Keep one stock until/if problems then ship it off to a smith to get it fixed, or just nip it in the bud and get one already converted to angle feed? 

2.  Can angle feed Marlins be short stroked, or are these mutually exclusive on the 1894s— aka pick one?

 

As an aside:  I currently have/use an 1897 but find the load 1 drill for cowboy to be a hard pill to swallow.  Am I being crazy for seriously considering going with an 1887 over a sxs for cowboy?

 

Thanks!

 

As far as the "load one drill" , it is legal to load two in a 97.  And there are lots of really fast 97 shooters that load one. Just takes dedicated practice.

And dexterity.

Good luck with whatever you decide. 

Rex 

[Tennessee williams]

Whatever rifle you get, you'll like having it slicked up so go ahead and bite the bullet to get it done. I don't think Widder is doing Widdermatics anymore. He is to busy being retired, shooting a 97, and working those Henry soft strokes everybody likes so much. I think he's worked with a smith or two and they may can do it though. You could call him and see. He likes talking on the phone. Just make sure you tell him you like family friendly restrooms and are anti gun.

 

On the shotgun note, I can't run a 97 because I didn't put the practice in with it I should have. I have run an 87 with success over the stoeger and the like doubles. When I got my first skb, that changed. The brand do make a difference. I do believe the double is a more forgiving shotgun than the aforementioned. If you're not gonna practice shotgunning, better get a double.

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

 

OK no one else said it. Why are you looking at 45 Colt for the rifle. Unless you reload they are way more expensive than 38 special. More recoil, brass is more expensive etc. Unless your pistols are 45 Colt then its all good.

Ike

[Dr Matt Lurse]

Getting some good stuff, thanks-- I'll try to respond more in depth to some specifics later when I can carve out a bit more time.

 

45 because it'll be mainly a WBAS rifle, rules and all --I'd go 357/38 otherwise.

 

I probably should have worded a few things differently.  When I said stock I meant more like "stock" as in no major internal modifications like the angle feed or short stroking.  After a familiarization fire it would probably get the springs, 1 piece firing pin, minor polish job etc done.  I'd just do this stuff myself, I just hesitate to do the carrier mod myself, and frankly have zero idea on what goes into short stroking the Marlins (aside from that it's possible, and apparently OAL dependent).  When I said in title "widdermatic out of the box" I didn't mean from the Marlin/Rem factory-- I meant just a pre done one, new and out of the box to me, from a cowboy smith. 

 

I'm leaning towards going the "stock" route right now after thinking because it will teach me a lot about the rifle as I go, for example I learned a ton going through the process of smoothing and fixing my '92.  A frustrating process of course, but at the end the knowledge of what's going on is usually worth it.  The root of the question is will it eventually need an angle feed under these CAS/WBAS shooting conditions?  One of the videos I saw did state regarding the angle feed "don't do this unless you are having issues," or something very similar.  So are people actually able to get one that runs well over time with just the standard action job stuff

 

Also really interested in if the angle feed and short stroke is a "pick one" proposition.  I have no idea what goes into a "spur short stroked Marlin" or whatever people are calling them today.  An older thread had people mostly voicing preference for the feed conversions over short stroked, but no one said "I have one with both done"  Usually it's even less then that, just more along the lines of I had *insert smith's name here* do some magic voodoo on it and it's great now. 

 

I'm asking on the wire because I want a varied and diverse opinion.  Asking locally can be quite individual, if even possible for a lot of folks, as this is all rather niche.  It can be like like going into a local gun store and asking what the best CCW is.  One place will have a little old lady leaving with an airweight 357 and a more tactical timmy place will have her leaving with a gaudy gucci glock-- and neither are what I'd consider great.

 

The shotgun stuff is again just getting current opinions.  I'm having a hard time justifying putting in the practice time on the 97 to get REALLY good making it a complex single shot, or heaven forbid getting enough muscle memory built up that I suddenly find myself pumping and reaching over the top (pick your technique) on an Rem 870-- This is COMPLETELY and individual choice though, I mean to imply nothing towards those that ARE putting in the time.  After reading the stuff above I think I'm leaning 1887, as tinkering with stuff is part of the fun for me-- and I'm not too worried about the occasional train wreck as I go.

 

Good stuff though, thanks 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

MATT,

you are to be commended on your efforts in learning about the firearms we use in SASS and

also your efforts in learning some other stuff on the Wire.

 

Feel free to hang around the lunch table and bring up any issues which the Wire Pards can help,

and odds are, we will also learn stuff from you.

 

From my personal experience with ONLY 2 or 3 Marlins that had been previously short stroked,

I was able to 'slightly' enhance them by giving them slightly more OAL variances.

In other words, add only a few .000's grace in the OAL of the ammo used.

Please don't interpret this as making any noticeable 'improvements' in the rifles.   They were

already reliable, smooth and functioned flawless for the Cowboy shooter.

 

On another topic, let me just say that a good Marlin does not need the angle feed.

There are MANY 1894 Marlins used in Cowboy competition that do not have the Widdermatic mods,

which is primarily the angle feed mod on the carrier.

But the Widdermatic mod has helped many 1894 Marlins from being a 'Safe Queen' and 

being put back on the firing line because the mods have eliminated issues in the 1894.

 

Best regards.   

 

..........Widder

 

[Roscoe Regulator]

2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

 

OK no one else said it. Why are you looking at 45 Colt for the rifle. Unless you reload they are way more expensive than 38 special. More recoil, brass is more expensive etc. Unless your pistols are 45 Colt then its all good.

Ike

I had my best times yesterday shooting 38 Long Colt in my model P Jr. Pistols and my newly reworked 45 Colt JM Marlin Cowboy 1894. Other than trying not to be last overall, I just try to do better and hope to be competitive if not alone in Cattle Baron. Tomorrow I should be receiving my 45CS brass so I can use my 45 Colt pistols with a softer shooting load.