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Shooting on the move - Definition?

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PLUS ONE too Doc Shapiro you Betcha  :D

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9 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

 

I wasn't complaining about the stage instructions.  Rather about the SASS prohibition against shooting on the move.

I understood that Doc.

Sorry if I seemed otherwise.

 

It's just everybody says they want stage writers to offer more than stand and deliver - more than cookie cutter 10 10 4 - and then it seems everyone goes out of their way to find ways to penalize and debate the fun out of it.

 

For someone, like myself, that takes pride in writing good, fun stages - it simply gets frustrating.

 

Edited by Creeker, SASS #43022
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6 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Stop , plant both feet, shoot.  Thats all folks. The shooter is this op should have gotten a SDQ.

Ike

Some shooters have splits in the teens. It's a hard call to say that he shot on the move.

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15 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

why, two feet on the ground. This would cause a slight pause in the forward movement.

 

If I read the Traveling Rule correctly, BOTH feet would have to move while the gun is cocked in order to earn the penalty.  

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32 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If I read the Traveling Rule correctly, BOTH feet would have to move while the gun is cocked in order to earn the penalty.  

You obviously have never seen Shooting Bull put on the brakes.

First of all..... If he doesn't fall down...... There is usually a skid mark of 12 to 18 inches in the dirt. How anyone could tell if he had both feet on the ground through all the dust, I have no idea...... 

PS - He is an expert in shooting from the prone/horizontal position....

 

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15 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

You obviously have never seen Shooting Bull put on the brakes.

First of all..... If he doesn't fall down...... There is usually a skid mark of 12 to 18 inches in the dirt. How anyone could tell if he had both feet on the ground through all the dust, I have no idea...... 

PS - He is an expert in shooting from the prone/horizontal position....

 

 

Oh great, another open can of worms. Both feet are on the ground but I’m skidding. Would that be shooting on the move or not? :wacko:

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15 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Oh great, another open can of worms. Both feet are on the ground but I’m skidding. Would that be shooting on the move or not? :wacko:

Did you look fluid? Did you have your hat on?

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2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I understood that Doc.

Sorry if I seemed otherwise.

 

It's just everybody says they want stage writers to offer more than stand and deliver - more than cookie cutter 10 10 4 - and then it seems everyone goes out of their way to find ways to penalize and debate the fun out of it.

 

For someone, like myself, that takes pride in writing good, fun stages - it simply gets frustrating.

 

 

No worries.  If you think about it, this game IS "stand and deliver".  Say your line, stand and deliver; move, stand and deliver; move, stand and deliver.

 

Only way to stop that is to rescind the rule preventing moving while shooting, or at least the "one continuous fluid movement" part of the rule.

Edited by Doc Shapiro
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Only way to stop that is to rescind the rule preventing moving while shooting, or at least the "one continuous fluid movement" part of the rule.

by Doc Shapiro

 

I think the game has matured enough to put this rule change in front of the Rules Committee . Maybe others see it this way too.

 

WR

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2 minutes ago, Wrangler Rich SASS #42157 said:

Only way to stop that is to rescind the rule preventing moving while shooting, or at least the "one continuous fluid movement" part of the rule.

by Doc Shapiro

 

I think the game has matured enough to put this rule change in front of the Rules Committee . Maybe others see it this way too.

 

WR

 

Then again, maybe not.

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47 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Did you look fluid? Did you have your hat on?

 

Me? Look fluid? You’ve obviously never seen me shoot.:lol:

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48 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Me? Look fluid? You’ve obviously never seen me shoot.:lol:

 

Oh - you look fluid. It's just that it looks like rapids ...... A. O. H. made me say that.

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1 hour ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

Me? Look fluid? You’ve obviously never seen me shoot.:lol:

Actually. He resembles one of those buildings that are imploded but the charges were set wrong and it fell crooked!

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One of the obstacles of changing this rule for SASS and allowing shooting/moving is that

some clubs won't even allow ANY movement unless the SG is totally empty.

 

Some clubs won't allow movement with any shells in the SG, unfired or fired

 

Just my opinion.

 

..........Widder

 

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2 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

One of the obstacles of changing this rule for SASS and allowing shooting/moving is that

some clubs won't even allow ANY movement unless the SG is totally empty.

 

Some clubs won't allow movement with any shells in the SG, unfired or fired

 

Just my opinion.

 

..........Widder

 

 

Not to mention there are some of us that don't feel it's safe. 

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45 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Not to mention there are some of us that don't feel it's safe. 

Unsafe for whom?

 

No one is and no would ever consider forcing anyone to do anything they feel is unsafe.

 

Every shooter should know and abide by their own limitations.

 

But to limit others because of our own shortcomings or inabilities is wrong.

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1 minute ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Unsafe for whom?

 

No one is and no would ever consider forcing anyone to do anything they feel is unsafe.

 

Every shooter should know and abide by their own limitations.

 

But to limit others because of our own shortcomings or inabilities is wrong.

 

 

I agree, every shooter should know their limitations and abide, but there are those that will not. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

 

I agree, every shooter should know their limitations and abide, but there are those that will not. 

 

 

So we dumb down to the lowest common denominator?

Where do we stop?

Because, I assure you; there are some within our game that are nearly incapable of movement, counting, handling projectile weapons or even driving to the range in the first place.

 

But we don't do away with the game because of them.

 

I'm really not trying to be insulting - I just question any philosophy that advocates punishing everyone; because some will exercise poor judgement.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

So we dumb down to the lowest common denominator?

Where do we stop?

Because, I assure you; there are some within our game that are nearly incapable of movement, counting, handling projectile weapons or even driving to the range in the first place.

 

I'm very aware of this. Who is going to tell these folks they can't shoot anymore? If we changed the rule, who is going to tell them "hey, you have to stop moving before you shoot someone; but the other guy in your category, well, he's fine". 

 

4 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

 

But we don't do away with the game because of them.

I hope we don't. I hope we continue to accommodate as much as possible. 

 

4 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

I'm really not trying to be insulting - I just question any philosophy that advocates punishing everyone; because some will exercise poor judgement.

 

 

How does one address poor judgement? 

 

I'm not taking it as an insult. I honestly want you to convince me and the rest that are against this that shooting on the move is a good thing for the sport. 

 

Maybe I worry way too much. All I can see in my mind is someone slipping, falling, turning the wrong way and we're done.  Again, we all know someone who will do it even though they shouldn't.  

 

I really wish we could set down and discuss this with a drink and a fine cigar...

 

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Definitely a discussion topic! I can see both points of view.

I see people every day that have no business being behind the wheel of a motor vehicle and yet...

I, too, abhor the "punish/limit all for the transgressions or shortcomings of the few" mentality but in the age of endless litigations and diversity and inclusion, what do we do? It is hard to single out those who can't or shouldn't so in the interest of "fairness" we throw out a blanket and take the safe way out.

Good post and I, personally would love to be able to move and shoot, but there are some, if allowed... I'd hide in the truck!

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It's not about my abilities. It's about the shooter who thinks he's the best  of the best and starts blazing away while walking, jogging, running and looses control of the gun. As in sweeps someone. And like above who determines if shooter A can and shooter B can't. Another subjective assessment by the TO.

 

I'll use the "intent" word. The intent of the basketball traveling rule is to allow the shooter to move one foot to improve their position or shooting stance. It's not "intended" to allow the shooter to raise one foot and shoot anticipating moving to the next position.

 

Ike

Edited by irish ike, SASS #43615
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Ah, but there is the Crux.  We, as the participant don't get to "interpret" intent.  The rule is the rule and must be reviewed "as written." As Written as opposed to what "we" think it should be.

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23 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

plant both feet, shoot.

 

All that I believe the rules require is that one foot remains stationary while the gun is being cocked and fired.   Many times I have planted one foot, and cocked while the second foot was still in motion.  Even, when I was fast enough, fired with the second foot off the ground.

 

Here's the applicable rule on page 12 of latest Shooter's Handbook:

Quote

Movement is not allowed with a loaded round under the hammer of any firearm.
Movement is defined by the basketball “traveling” rule. Whenever a shooter has
a loaded round under the hammer of a firearm in hand, at least one foot must
remain in place on the ground.

 

And there's a minor additional movement allowed to maintain balance or adjust stance:

Quote

Note: Shuffling the feet to maintain balance
or adjust the shooting stance is allowed as long as the shooter does not actually
change location.

 

Good luck, GJ

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39 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

All that I believe the rules require is that one foot remains stationary while the gun is being cocked and fired.   Many times I have planted one foot, and cocked while the second foot was still in motion.  Even, when I was fast enough, fired with the second foot off the ground.

 

Here's the applicable rule on page 12 of latest Shooter's Handbook:

 

And there's a minor additional movement allowed to maintain balance or adjust stance:

 

Good luck, GJ

This is also in the new handbook.

  • -  “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed. See rules for the safe condition of firearms for movement.

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2 minutes ago, Flash said:

This is also in the new handbook.

  • -  “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed. See rules for the safe condition of firearms for movement.

 

Well, the page 12 rules do not allow "shooting on the move" because those rules (as quoted above) DEFINE what illegal movement with a cocked loaded gun, so that pretty well pins down movement while shooting because shooting can only be done with a cocked loaded gun.

 

IMHO, "Step shooting" is not well enough defined to argue about, at this point.

 

Good luck, GJ

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5 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

Well, the page 12 rules do not allow "shooting on the move" because those rules (as quoted above) DEFINE what illegal movement with a cocked loaded gun, so that pretty well pins down movement while shooting because shooting can only be done with a cocked loaded gun.

 

IMHO, "Step shooting" is not well enough defined to argue about, at this point.

 

Good luck, GJ

And this is on the pocket RO card. SDQ=Shooting on the move (shooting multiple shots during continuous movement)

 

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35 minutes ago, Flash said:

this is on the pocket RO card. SDQ=Shooting on the move (shooting multiple shots during continuous movement)

Well, even shooting ONE shot during continuous movement would be ILLEGAL and be an SDQ.  The pocket RO card is WRONG about needing to have multiple shots!   The actual rules do not mention "multiple shots" anywhere as far as I can find! The pocket RO card almost never matches exactly what the rules say.   FYI.  The card does not get updated nor edit-checked very often.  So, the card is really proof of "not much"

 

Good luck, GJ

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

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1 hour ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

 

All that I believe the rules require is that one foot remains stationary while the gun is being cocked and fired.  

 

I absolutely positively guarantee one foot was stationary.  The other foot was mostly off the ground if it was touching the ground at all.  

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12 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Well, even shooting ONE shot during continuous movement would be ILLEGAL and be an SDQ.  The pocket RO card is WRONG about needing to have multiple shots!   The actual rules do not mention "multiple shots" anywhere as far as I can find! The pocket RO card almost never matches exactly what the rules say.   FYI.  The card does not get updated nor edit-checked very often.  So, the card is really proof of "not much"

 

Good luck, GJ

The card says

Pocket RO Card (Current as of January 2020)

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32 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said:

 

I absolutely positively guarantee one foot was stationary.  The other foot was mostly off the ground if it was touching the ground at all.  

Movement is subjective. Is leaning moving, even when both feet are planted. What if one is twisting? 

If my wheels are locked on my car, before anti-lock brakes, and I'm sliding on the ice, is the car still moving? 

The moving rule needs some modifications.

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14 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

 

I agree, every shooter should know their limitations and abide, but there are those that will not. 

 

 

I'm pretty sure there are shooting disciplines out there that allow shooting on the move and do so safely.  Are SASS shooter's less competent than IDPA, IPSC, and 3-gun shooters?  I'm pretty sure all of them can move and shoot.

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2 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm pretty sure there are shooting disciplines out there that allow shooting on the move and do so safely.  Are SASS shooter's less competent than IDPA, IPSC, and 3-gun shooters?  I'm pretty sure all of them can move and shoot.

Yes. Many are. Our sport caters to a less experienced shooter. 

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6 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

Yes. Many are. Our sport caters to a less experienced shooter. 

I'm not sure I agree with that.  All shooting sports have a range of experience in their competitors, but based on my limited experience few of the other shooting sports have as many opportunities to compete as SASS shooters do.  I know I shoot five matches a month usually and all of them are 2 hours or less from me.  I would have to do a ton of traveling to do that in 3-gun, IPSC or IDPA.

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15 minutes ago, Ace_of_Hearts said:

Yes. Many are. Our sport caters to a less experienced shooter. 

 

 

I think I'd modify that and say our sport caters to a much wider range of skill levels. 

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