Captain Bill Burt Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: I think I'd modify that and say our sport caters to a much wider range of skill levels. I can agree with that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 On 1/12/2020 at 8:58 PM, Kirk James said: Did you stop to shoot or was continuous? Very fine line with good shooters. If the shooter has a pause while they shoot, it seems to me they are good. When it comes to whether or not a shooter was continuous or stopped, I would think the TO is going to gather information to make a decision if one person makes the statement from the gallery or one spotter. Dear Kirk, Doesn't matter!!!! WE ARE GOING TO STOP THESE DANG KIDS AND STOP ANY ADVANTAGE OF THE 97! yaaa! I'm NOT A FAST KID AND I SHOOT AN UN-WORKED STOEGER! just BECAUSE THEY CAN RUN AND SHOOT FASTER THAN US, AND A 97 SLAM FIRES IN A NANNO SECOND WHILE THESE YOUNG KIDS ARE RUNNING AND HAVE ONE FOOT PLANTED FOR A NANNO SECOND (as per the rules before they have been clarified several times) ,,,,,,,, WE GONNA STOP IT......... We gonna keep clarifying the rules until we stop it!! As some of the Wild Bunch have been quoted in the past: "... NEVER SHOULD HAVE ALLOWED 97S IN THE FIRST PLACE" p.s. We need to get more young people into this game! (but not the fast ones ) Sorry, but I'm just a little tired of all this horse pucky of re-clarifying the rules, or griping about the rules, in a manner to take any advantaged away from anyone that does not have my years or my pos equipment. None of this intended to apply to Mr. Kirk James or his family -- just supporting his concerns Yes, I probably should wait the count of ten before I post but I'm not gonna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 14, 2020 Author Share Posted January 14, 2020 37 minutes ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said: Yes, I probably should wait the count of ten before I post but I'm not gonna Please don't ever do that. I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 14, 2020 Share Posted January 14, 2020 Quote continuous, fluid movement If that is the ONLY definition of what shooting on the move is, then any noticeable pause by the shooter to take a shot CANNOT be "continuous, fluid movement." If you see the shooter's movement pause, it's not continuous. I like the "one foot has to remain stationary" (basketball traveling) rule much better. Because is it SO much easier to call right. But now, we seem to have two rules that are in competition for what is the right one to use in order to detect illegal movement while shooting. One of which is pretty concrete (just watch the shooter's stance) and requires little in the way of a subjective decision of "was that enough of a pause?" Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 One, Two, Three, Four, Five, Six, Seven, Eight, Nine, (don't get ahead of me PV), Ten. Your good!!!! No offense taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 17 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Please don't ever do that. I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? A thousand pardons, Sahib. I went sideways, off the subject, with the rest of the replies. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest my arm pits. Not enough info in OP --- SXS? 97? did he close action while reloading? etc. More fun going sideways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 1 minute ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said: A thousand pardons, Sahib. I went sideways, off the subject, with the rest of the replies. May the fleas of a thousand camels infest my arm pits. Not enough info in OP --- SXS? 97? did he close action while reloading? etc. More fun going sideways This is why I love your posts. SxS. Action was open while on the move. Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired. The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyliefoxEsquire Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 I just saw this post. Maybe someone already made mention to what I am about to suggest. Some time back (up to two years ago?) there was a WTC post, showing a shooter with feet planted but upper body in continuous movement. Maybe someone could repost a link to that video, along with the discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 19 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Please don't ever do that. I LOVE your posts. You don't make enough of them. But I need to know, should that gamer in the OP get a SDQ? Instant replay has ruined both baseball and football, IMO, but then they are playing for BIG BUCKS. Until then, if the TO Stage DQed you then take your award with pride and don't push the envelope. If not, consider yourself lucky for living on the edge. Not much difference than a gunfighter shooting two rounds close or simultaneously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 There was a discussion on WTC on facebook with a video of Ray Heartless sent in by his wife, Mad Dog with a Gun. It was on continuous movement while shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 On 1/15/2020 at 10:51 AM, Kirk James said: discussion on WTC on facebook Something I will NEVER visit, sadly. That Internet company is just too greedy, crooked, security ignorant, arrogant, and eager to sell their users' info, pictures, love lives, internet usage, likes, etc. IMHProfessionalO (worked on web applications and databases for years) Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 6 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired. The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. And, Benefit of the Doubt goes to the shooter. GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 hours ago, Shooting Bull said: This is why I love your posts. SxS. Action was open while on the move. Planted one foot firmly, closed action, fired. The instant the second round was fired, opened action and moved all at the same time. IF the second foot was touching the ground while all this was happening it was barely touching. Here's a related scenario to think about. Shooter steps forward with right foot and plants it with SG still open, and with two live rounds in chambers. After planting right foot, he closes the gun, fires both rounds while stepping forward with left foot. His upper body never ceases forward motion, but right foot is still planted. Shooter then (in order) opens action, lifts right foot and steps forward, shucks shells on the fly to next station. Gun breech is never closed while right foot is off the ground. Very good transition work. Is it legal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 So now what we're saying is shooters can have only one foot on the ground when they fire a gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 16, 2020 Author Share Posted January 16, 2020 1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: So now what we're saying is shooters can have only one foot on the ground when they fire a gun! That’s one more than I’ve had on the ground sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 18 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: So now what we're saying is shooters can have only one foot on the ground when they fire a gun! Traveling rule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 21 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: Here's a related scenario to think about. Shooter steps forward with right foot and plants it with SG still open, and with two live rounds in chambers. After planting right foot, he closes the gun, fires both rounds while stepping forward with left foot. His upper body never ceases forward motion, but right foot is still planted. Shooter then (in order) opens action, lifts right foot and steps forward, shucks shells on the fly to next station. Gun breech is never closed while right foot is off the ground. Very good transition work. Is it legal? That is "Step Shooting" and is now illegal in SASS. - “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed. SHB Vers 24.1 pg 13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 So again, in order to pull the trigger, both feet must be firmly planted on the ground, shooter can adjust their position using the basketball rule, but can't pull the trigger while doing this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 12 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: So again, in order to pull the trigger, both feet must be firmly planted on the ground Where does it say that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 See McCandless post above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: See McCandless post above. I could be standing on one foot and shoot all 10 shots and not move anywhere. There is no requirement for me to have both feet on the ground when I pull the trigger. same manner, I could be step shooting or shooting on a continuous movement and be pulling the trigger every time that both feet are on the ground, and I'm breaking the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lou Graham, # 26112 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 It seems like the step shooting rule relates to time, not motion or actual movement. I could make the exact same moves the Incredible Mr. Bull did (including shooting with one foot off the ground or barely touching the ground) and nobody would call a penalty as I move through the smoke in slow motion. I think that is why we are struggling with this. We know the "intent" of the rules is to not permit shooting on the move yet we still must allow for adjusting to keep your balance (Mr. Bull has an exception as he doesn't care). If a flawless fast moving shooter does what I do, it's a penalty. It seems like we would have to go to a "complete stop, both feet down to close and fire rule" not basketball rule and then make some kind of modification to the adjust rule, like put a distance of X inches around it or you can only adjust after first shot in string from shooting position you are currently in. SIGH. It does seem inherently unfair in a timed activity that 2 people can do the exact same thing but if one of them does it faster, it's a penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 20, 2020 Author Share Posted January 20, 2020 2 hours ago, Lou Graham, # 26112 said: we still must allow for adjusting to keep your balance (Mr. Bull has an exception as he doesn't care). I don’t care who you are, that’s funny right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 20, 2020 Share Posted January 20, 2020 Have any of the better or top shooters experimented when practicing on a standard stage setup as if full movement were allowed? Without drastically changing the way targets are set up now I don't think you'd see as dramatic a difference as many believe would occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said: Have any of the better or top shooters experimented when practicing on a standard stage setup as if full movement were allowed? Without drastically changing the way targets are set up now I don't think you'd see as dramatic a difference as many believe would occur. Those top shooters aren’t looking for dramatic differences. They’re trying to shave off tenths and even hundredths of a second. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 Shooting Bull. That's true. I'm more refering to a drastic change in what it would look like watching them shoot a stage. Would other shooters watching notice much of a difference. It seems like people think that all of a sudden you'd have shooters running full speed ahead while shooting targets. My take is that you'd have to spread out the targets much differently then they are now to see much running and gunning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 On 1/16/2020 at 3:10 PM, McCandless said: That is "Step Shooting" and is now illegal in SASS. - “Shooting on the move” or “step shooting” is expressly disallowed. SHB Vers 24.1 pg 13 Found that mention of "shooting on the move or step shooting" in SHB 24.1 pg 13. But can not find anywhere "shooting on the move or step shooting" are defined or described. Maybe I just missed something. Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted January 21, 2020 Share Posted January 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said: Found that mention of "shooting on the move or step shooting" in SHB 24.1 pg 13. But can not find anywhere "shooting on the move or step shooting" are defined or described. Maybe I just missed something. Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about? SHB pg 23 Shooting on the move (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 21, 2020 Author Share Posted January 21, 2020 2 hours ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said: Anybody find a definition/description or is that what this thread is about? It didn’t start out that way but it’s what the thread is about now. I think I’m safe from ever being bit by this penalty. I’ve never been fluid in my life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/21/2020 at 3:24 PM, Captain Bill Burt said: SHB pg 23 Shooting on the move (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets) Mr. Burt, Thanks for finding that.--- "Shooting on the move [is] (continuous, fluid movement while engaging targets" Now, there is a definition to live by ! I needed a good laugh. I'll be watchin' for anybody what shoots in a"fluid movement" And all this time I thought the goal was to shoot smooth; which most folks might consider kinda "fluidy". I guess this could mean, if we are engaging targets with our pistols, our rifle or our shotgun, we should shoot kinda jerky Wouldn't want no DQ cause I engaged my pistol targets fluidy. Now, I know it is sometimes hard to express in words what we think we know when we think we see it, but this definition conjures up all sorts of possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Fluid Movement! OK. I'm there. Fluid movement I'm familiar with. Usually you can fix it with Ka-0-Pektate. If it be "Continuous Fluid Movement" it is suggested there be no hindrance to my progress. Most fluid movement is associated with both feet planted firmly. Although I do know of occasion when at least one foot was in motion as well. Messy that was. Therefore, I'm not really in favor of Continuous Fluid Movement. Or Fluid Movement. I think one should be required to take a more SOLID position. As it twer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Fluid Movement! OK. I'm there. Fluid movement I'm familiar with. Usually you can fix it with Ka-0-Pektate. If it be "Continuous Fluid Movement" it is suggested there be no hindrance to my progress. Most fluid movement is associated with both feet planted firmly. Although I do know of occasion when at least one foot was in motion as well. Messy that was. Therefore, I'm not really in favor of Continuous Fluid Movement. Or Fluid Movement. I think one should be required to take a more SOLID position. As it twer. Actually - I've had instances where a continuous fluid movement took both feet completely off the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted January 25, 2020 Author Share Posted January 25, 2020 My thread is starting to stink Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, Shooting Bull said: My thread is starting to stink No, thread's just fine. It's some of the rules that stink. Perhaps it's one that has been clarified by Pastel Lupus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.