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Roger Rapid

Transporting CAS guns into California

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My sons a lawyer and my buddy, a retired Marine officer, is another attorney, the court costs would still be onerous. The example from San Diego showed that an appeal, with all of its intended costs, was required because the prosecutor purposefully adhered to a Gun Control agenda. That's the reality!!!!   :wub:

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Idaho rule for firearms: keep them loaded and easily accessible!!!!   :D

 

Canada does not have an electoral college.Whatever Ontario and Quebec want, the rest of the provinces must suffer. Now, those two provinces are pushing a total ban on pistols!!!  :(

 

I enjoy shooting in Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchawan also somewhat in British Columbia. ;) I have a PAL restricted so I'm pretty safe. California doesn't have anything like that so it does not make me feel safe.

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15 minutes ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

My sons a lawyer and my buddy, a retired Marine officer, is another attorney, the court costs would still be onerous. The example from San Diego showed that an appeal, with all of its intended costs, was required because the prosecutor purposefully adhered to a Gun Control agenda. That's the reality!!!!   :wub:

Hence the reason to take a little extra precaution when traveling.  

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The Marine Corps taught me to not willingly place myself in jeopardy without good cause. QED!!!

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56 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Hence the reason to take a little extra precaution when traveling.  

Think about what you said? If you already have a police officer looking through your gear, Car, Gun cases, By then it's to late and you're already in deep crap. Ammo separated from the firearm is not going to help you. 
Here's what you do when faced with an officer that is not clear on the law. Ask for a supervisor, and ask to be shown the code. If you are polite, calm yet firm they will bring out a supervisor or a Sargent and things will get cleared up real fast. California is hyper sensitive to the changing gun laws so officers get training updates on the subject quite frequently. Remember I have family in CHP and I ask him questions all the time.   

 


Here's the other thing. Unless you're being arrested you are under no obligation to open your vehicle let alone the gun cases to a search or inspection. Even if they are in plain sight. Just because you have gun cases doesn't mean you have guns. and if they are locked they need a warrant to search without you being under arrest. There is no law against possession of an unregistered firearm in this state. Law Enforcement must establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion in order to justify a search

If it makes you feel better sure go ahead and lock everything up in a different case, box, what have you, but don't try and sell people on the idea that some how it's going to save their butt because it won't. 

I highly recommend calling the CHP for questions, I also recommend calling the local police if you have questions.  I highly recommend not calling the state DOJ. Now all that said the type of firearm Cas an WB shooters use for a match is not on the radar of law enforcement. 

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What about the cop who just wants to screw with you?

Years ago, I was driving from CA to ID when my Dad was dying.
In NV, I was cruising along lost in my thoughts when the siren went off behind me.

In the 90s, HW95 around Lovelock and Winnemucca was a very empty road.
The cop was behind me with his lights on, and I did not see him.  Preoccupied.
He said this went 10 miles until he hit the siren.

I told him why I didn't see him.
He said, "Ok for the dog to go through your truck?"
I asked, "Do I have a choice?"
He said, "Do it here, or do it at the station."

The dog went all through the truck and came up dry.
I was carrying a military security clearance at the time.

The cop was just being a dick.
Because he could.

This is the sort of situation where they will go through your vehicle just looking for anything they can nail you for.
Here in the PRK, that will be any sort of gun transport violation.

Having been through the legal system (plaintiff) a few times, I assure you that justice is VERY, VERY expensive.
Get used to seeing your lawyer with his hand out for yet another $5,000 retainer check.

The way to win these battles, is to not play.
Hence my question about transport here, even if the method is way overkill.

Edited by bgavin
edited for typos
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4 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Think about what you said? If you already have a police officer looking through your gear, Car, Gun cases, By then it's to late and you're already in deep crap. Ammo separated from the firearm is not going to help you. 
Here's what you do when faced with an officer that is not clear on the law. Ask for a supervisor, and ask to be shown the code. If you are polite, calm yet firm they will bring out a supervisor or a Sargent and things will get cleared up real fast. California is hyper sensitive to the changing gun laws so officers get training updates on the subject quite frequently. Remember I have family in CHP and I ask him questions all the time.   

 


Here's the other thing. Unless you're being arrested you are under no obligation to open your vehicle let alone the gun cases to a search or inspection. Even if they are in plain sight. Just because you have gun cases doesn't mean you have guns. and if they are locked they need a warrant to search without you being under arrest. There is no law against possession of an unregistered firearm in this state. Law Enforcement must establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion in order to justify a search

If it makes you feel better sure go ahead and lock everything up in a different case, box, what have you, but don't try and sell people on the idea that some how it's going to save their butt because it won't. 

I highly recommend calling the CHP for questions, I also recommend calling the local police if you have questions.  I highly recommend not calling the state DOJ. Now all that said the type of firearm Cas an WB shooters use for a match is not on the radar of law enforcement. 

You make a lot of expert assumptions for a non LEO pard.  Just to validate my qualifications, I wore a badge for over 30 years and am still a LEO certified rangemaster.  I am fully aware of the options available to citizens during LEO encounters and of the ways to mitigate any encounters.  Your arrogant attitude is what will deepen the pool for you if you choose to go that way.  Have a great day.

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I'm not an attorney and I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn Express recently, but I'm pretty sure all the officer needs is probable cause to search, which doesn't mean he has to arrest you first.  I also don't think trying to litigate things on the side of the road by asking to be shown codes and speak to supervisors is the right approach.  If asked for permission to search say no.  If he decides he has probable cause he's going to search whether you like it or not. Shut up and do what he says.

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4 minutes ago, bgavin said:

What about the cop who just wants to screw with you?

Years ago, I was driving from CA to ID when my Dad was dying.
In NV, I was cruising along lost in my thoughts when the siren went off behind me.

In the 90s, HW95 around Lovelock and Winnemucca was a very empty road.
The cop was behind me with his lights on, and I did not see him.  Preoccupied.
He said this went 10 miles until he hit the siren.

I told him why I didn't see him.
He said, "Ok for the dog to go through your truck?"
I asked, "Do I have a choice?"
He said, "Do it here, or do it at the station."

The dog went all through the truck and came up dry.
I was carrying a military security clearance at the time.

The cop was just being a dick.
Because he could.

This is the sort of situation where they will go through your vehicle just looking for anything they can nail you for.
Here in the PRK, that will be any sort of gun transport violation.

Having been through the legal system (plaintiff) a few times, I assure you that justice is VERY, VERY expensive.
Get used to seeing your lawyer with his hand out for yet another $5,000 retainer check.

The way to win these battles, is to not play.
Hence my question about transport here, even if the method is way overkill.

This is a situation where I would have made them get their warrant, although you had reason to keep traveling.  He had no PC to search so ran a bluff on you.  I would have called his bluff.

 

Yes, go the extra step even if it is overkill.  It doesn't take any more time and will give you peace of mind.

 

 

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41 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm not an attorney and I didn't stay at a Holliday Inn Express recently, but I'm pretty sure all the officer needs is probable cause to search, which doesn't mean he has to arrest you first.  I also don't think trying to litigate things on the side of the road by asking to be shown codes and speak to supervisors is the right approach.  If asked for permission to search say no.  If he decides he has probable cause he's going to search whether you like it or not. Shut up and do what he says.

Just to be clear I didn't mean you had to be under arrest to be searched. The point of asking for a sup is to get someone less badge heavy on deck. I fully agree Probable cause or reasonable suspicion will allow them the search. and at that point they don't need to ask. They only ask to see if you're dumb enough to let them. In either event remaining calm and quiet is a very good thing

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1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

You make a lot of expert assumptions for a non LEO pard.  Just to validate my qualifications, I wore a badge for over 30 years and am still a LEO certified rangemaster.  I am fully aware of the options available to citizens during LEO encounters and of the ways to mitigate any encounters.  Your arrogant attitude is what will deepen the pool for you if you choose to go that way.  Have a great day.

I respect your position and you know as well as I do LEO's are people too. Attitude is everything when dealing with LEO's and they always get a very respectful conversation from me. Except my younger brother. I remind him he's a public servant and demand he fetch me a beer :D

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2 hours ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Here's the other thing. Unless you're being arrested you are under no obligation to open your vehicle let alone the gun cases to a search or inspection. Even if they are in plain sight. Just because you have gun cases doesn't mean you have guns. and if they are locked they need a warrant to search without you being under arrest. There is no law against possession of an unregistered firearm in this state. Law Enforcement must establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion in order to justify a search
 

 

7 minutes ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

Just to be clear I didn't mean you had to be under arrest to be searched. The point of asking for a sup is to get someone less badge heavy on deck. I fully agree Probable cause or reasonable suspicion will allow them the search. and at that point they don't need to ask. They only ask to see if you're dumb enough to let them. In either event remaining calm and quiet is a very good thing

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

... but I'm pretty sure all the officer needs is probable cause to search, which doesn't mean he has to arrest you first. ...

 

An Officer can search within your immediate reach for the Officer's safety.  To search the entire car they will need your permission or probable cause to get a warrant to search

 

On the other hand if your vehicle is impounded they can perform an inventory of the vehicle (if it is department policy) for their and your protection.

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Just now, Matthew Duncan said:

 

An Officer can search within your immediate reach for the Officer's safety.  To search the entire car they will need your permission or probable cause to get a warrant to search

 

On the other hand if your vehicle is impounded they can perform an inventory of the vehicle (if it is department policy) for their and your protection.

Sounds about right.  Of course I don't cop an attitude with the po-po, so that sort of thing doesn't happen to me.  Last time I got pulled over (91 in the 70) I got a ticket for 84 in the 70, no points.  That's what you get when you show a little respect and don't bs them.

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1 minute ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

...I don't cop an attitude with the po-po, so that sort of thing...

 

What's a po-po?

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1 minute ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

What's a po-po?

LOL, sorry, too many years teaching high school in a low income neighborhood.  Around here a po-po is a law enforcement officer. 

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1 hour ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

An Officer can search within your immediate reach for the Officer's safety.  To search the entire car they will need your permission or probable cause to get a warrant to search

 

On the other hand if your vehicle is impounded they can perform an inventory of the vehicle (if it is department policy) for their and your protection.

 

To add, a LEO on a t-stop does not need your approval, for a police K-9 to do 'sniff-around' outside your vehicle.

If the dog 'hits' on somedangthing, then the work begins.

OLG 

 

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15 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

To add, a LEO on a t-stop does not need your approval, for a police K-9 to do 'sniff-around' outside your vehicle.

If the dog 'hits' on somedangthing, then the work begins.

OLG 

 

Reading here, I feel like I've missed out.  In 55 yrs of driving, I've not been pulled over, never had an accident, never had a canine sniff my car, except the tires and hubcaps, and never encountered a LEO with a poor attitude.  IMHO, the attitude I show to them probably determines what comes back at me.  Having nothing to hide in the truck, and no reason to be pulled over works well to keep things tame. 

 

But with that said, I do pay attention, stay within speed limits, use signals, wear seat belts, full stop at stop signs, don't use the phone on the road, abstain from substances, show courtesy to other drivers, and for me it's simple to keep my guns legally locked in boxes with ammo separate.  Life ought to be more exciting than this.  But I prefer getting my excitement at the match, rather than enroute.   It works OK for me.   

 

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18 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Law Enforcement must establish probable cause or reasonable suspicion in order to justify a search

you missed that last part. But I'm still in full agreement. And yes officer safety checks are legal. CHP policy is anywhere within reach of driver or passenger(s) if there is a passenger(s) that would be likely to hide a weapon. They can not go through paper work or flip down visors things of that nature. Sniff test hit by a dog and they will toss your car for sure and for certain. 
 

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9 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Reading here, I feel like I've missed out.  In 55 yrs of driving, I've not been pulled over, never had an accident, never had a canine sniff my car, except the tires and hubcaps, and never encountered a LEO with a poor attitude.  IMHO, the attitude I show to them probably determines what comes back at me.  Having nothing to hide in the truck, and no reason to be pulled over works well to keep things tame. 

 

But with that said, I do pay attention, stay within speed limits, use signals, wear seat belts, full stop at stop signs, don't use the phone on the road, abstain from substances, show courtesy to other drivers, and for me it's simple to keep my guns legally locked in boxes with ammo separate.  Life ought to be more exciting than this.  But I prefer getting my excitement at the match, rather than enroute.   It works OK for me.   

 

thats the best way to go

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Hey! Look it's the cops, everybody act natural!!

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To the previous comment about Georgia being so free on gun control, it is interesting to note that of the 4,432 firearms seized by TSA in carried-on baggage in 2019, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport had the highest incidents with 323 LOADED firearms found in checked on baggage! (Compared to 217 in Dallas, 140 in Denver, 138 at George Bush Int'l, 132 In Phoenix, etc.)

RR

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1 hour ago, Roger Rapid said:

To the previous comment about Georgia being so free on gun control, it is interesting to note that of the 4,432 firearms seized by TSA in carried-on baggage in 2019, Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport had the highest incidents with 323 LOADED firearms found in checked on baggage! (Compared to 217 in Dallas, 140 in Denver, 138 at George Bush Int'l, 132 In Phoenix, etc.)

RR

It's also the busiest airport in the world.

 

https://www.cnn.com/travel/article/worlds-busiest-airports-2018/index.html

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1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Hmmmm, LAX is number four yet not in the top five for airline gun confiscations. 

 

I do think what Roger is trying to say is to be more careful transporting your guns so you don't have to face the restrictions the left wants to force on you.

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30 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Hmmmm, LAX is number four yet not in the top five for airline gun confiscations. 

 

I do think what Roger is trying to say is to be more careful transporting your guns so you don't have to face the restrictions the left wants to force on you.

I'm OK with that.  But think of it this way.  How many people in the LA area even carry guns relative to the number of guns showing up at the airport.  Then think of how many people in the Atlanta area carry guns relative to the number of guns showing up at our airport.  It's not surprising that you have a low number there.  I doubt it has anything to do with being more careful and everything to do with the fact that carrying guns is very common here and not at all common there.   

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5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I'm OK with that.  But think of it this way.  How many people in the LA area even carry guns relative to the number of guns showing up at the airport.  Then think of how many people in the Atlanta area carry guns relative to the number of guns showing up at our airport.  It's not surprising that you have a low number there.  I doubt it has anything to do with being more careful and everything to do with the fact that carrying guns is very common here and not at all common there.   

I don't know if there is a way to quantify the number of folks carrying guns on aircraft in California vs Georgia.  What I can say is because of our backwards laws, the ones that do carry on airplanes are careful to follow TSA rules to the letter to keep from running afoul of them.  As far as folks carrying guns here, most of the rural counties allow CCW carry with many folks taking advantage of that.  SoCal and the Bay area, not so much.  The crooks are the ones with the guns :-(

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