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Roger Rapid

Transporting CAS guns into California

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And FWIW, TSA allows loaded magazines to be transported in the same locked box as the firearm as long as it is not in the magazine well of the firearm.

 

From my saddle, carrying ammunition separate from the firearm eliminates any interpretation of the written code.

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1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

And FWIW, TSA allows loaded magazines to be transported in the same locked box as the firearm as long as it is not in the magazine well of the firearm.

 

From my saddle, carrying ammunition separate from the firearm eliminates any interpretation of the written code.

I have no issue with playing it safe. That's a good thing. but others posting up false information is not helping people. California is screwed up but we ain't that bad. 

Rule #1 in California, Don't attract attention to yourself
Rule #2 do not consent to a search. 
99% of the time you will not have a problem. Cops out here ain't out to harass law abiding citizens. But if you dress and act like a dirt bag expect to be treated as such. and by dirt bag I mean low life gang banger. 

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FYI to those that do come here to shoot matches. 

Be smart about yourself and your gear.
Do not advertise what you have or own. 
Try to park where you can keep an eye on your vehicle when stopping for lunch or dinner.
Keep you whits about you when stopping for fuel
Don't leave anything laying in the open. 
Lock you car, truck, van, or take your saddle and bags off the horse. some places out here they'll steal the fleas of a dog.

Hotels
I take all my gear in the room with me, 
Guns, ammo, gear all of it in the room
I also carry a pistol loaded
Keep the door locked
Park close to your room

The #1 issue is don't make it easy.
Thieves are lazy otherwise they'd have a real job
If you make them work for something, 99% of the time they won't try. 

Law enforcement out here is pretty good and the likelihood that you'll be pulled over for anything is slim. Cops don't ask about weapons unless you look like you shouldn't own one. I've never been asked about weapons or firearms.  

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3 hours ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

FYI to those that do come here to shoot matches. 

Be smart about yourself and your gear.
Do not advertise what you have or own. 
Try to park where you can keep an eye on your vehicle when stopping for lunch or dinner.
Keep you whits about you when stopping for fuel
Don't leave anything laying in the open. 
Lock you car, truck, van, or take your saddle and bags off the horse. some places out here they'll steal the fleas of a dog.

Hotels
I take all my gear in the room with me, 
Guns, ammo, gear all of it in the room
I also carry a pistol loaded
Keep the door locked
Park close to your room

The #1 issue is don't make it easy.
Thieves are lazy otherwise they'd have a real job
If you make them work for something, 99% of the time they won't try. 

Law enforcement out here is pretty good and the likelihood that you'll be pulled over for anything is slim. Cops don't ask about weapons unless you look like you shouldn't own one. I've never been asked about weapons or firearms.  

 

This is good advice for traveling with firearms anywhere, not just California.

 

:FlagAm:

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15 hours ago, Dantankerous said:

 

This is good advice for traveling with firearms anywhere, not just California.

 

:FlagAm:

Thank you sir. Yeah some peoples children just don't pay attention to what going on around them. 

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As a Canadian who has many years of shooting in Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and Arizona my wife and I enjoy the people and the competitions that we have shot in and always have been treated well. Given the complexities of California laws, just don't need the hassle when we have anywhere from 13 to 19 firearms in the car going to a match. I'll give your Liberal paradise a pass.

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7 minutes ago, Dapper Dynamite Dick said:

As a Canadian who has many years of shooting in Montana, Wyoming, North Dakota and Arizona my wife and I enjoy the people and the competitions that we have shot in and always have been treated well. Given the complexities of California laws, just don't need the hassle when we have anywhere from 13 to 19 firearms in the car going to a match. I'll give your Liberal paradise a pass.

I'm sorry you feel that way because you are missing out on some great matches and folks.  There is no hassle transporting SASS firearms into California as long as you follow the guidelines cited previously.  

 

I would love to shoot in Canada but can't cross the border, even as a retired LEO, with a self protection firearm that is with me when I travel.  By your logic, I have to pass on meeting new folks and enjoying your country.

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Y'all are glossing over the whole phrasing used in the quoted law:  "attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm." Not all LEOs or Prosecutors are created equal in their attitudes toward gun rights.  The underlined words provide them the latitude to interpret what "loaded" means.  And while the Courts are the final arbitrator of what the written law means, that entails some costs the many of us are not willing to bear.

 

But, as a former resident, (happily ensconced in TX these many years), I would not be adverse to, and plan to visit CA with my guns for a couple of matches this coming year.  1st, and foremost, like most everywhere else, CA has a criminal element, and your average LEO is most concerned about that element.  Those CHP cars and motorcycles are 1st & foremost concerned with traffic & vehicular infractions.  You, and only YOU, dear reader, can keep their bullseye off your back.  Use some uncommon good sense, and comply with their storage and transport laws to the best of your ability.  If required by your state, make sure your vehicle(s) are duly registered and licensed, keep proof of insurance with you, make sure your lights are in good operating order, (& that they ALL work).  If you have a breakdown, be prepared to have one stop and ask if you need assistance.  Yes, they'll look around & into your vehicle to see if you're carrying any contraband in plain sight... DON'T!   If you keep your ammo out of the pistol or rifle case and even if both are in the trunk, you can be assured you pretty much actually comply with both the spirit and letter of the law.  If neither gun nor ammo is within your reach as you drive your vehicle, and the gun is separated from ammo by at least an otherwise empty soft case, in my very inexpert opinion, you're in compliance with the law.

 

Don't fall into those mistakes that some officers look specifically for, texting while driving, not using a hands-free device, drive sensibly and remain aware of what traffic is around you and you'll probably have a lovely trip and lots of fun.

 

And remember this, we all, no matter where we live in these United States" are at the mercy of those we elect to "rule" us.  Any or all of them could turn on us at the drop of a hat.  So... be careful of your criticisms of those among us that have suffered their elected officials "mercy" sooner than the rest of us.

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1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

I'm sorry you feel that way because you are missing out on some great matches and folks.  There is no hassle transporting SASS firearms into California as long as you follow the guidelines cited previously.  

 

I would love to shoot in Canada but can't cross the border, even as a retired LEO, with a self protection firearm that is with me when I travel.  By your logic, I have to pass on meeting new folks and enjoying your country.

I’m sure Cali is great, but really? The thread is started to reassure folks that traveling to Cali with guns is no big deal. Immediately several paragraphs follow detailed the hoops a person must jump through to remain legal. Then three or four (or more) Cali residents begin debating what the law actually is, with suggestions to call and speak to government drones to verify laws before traveling there.
 

SMH! I remain unconvinced that traveling to Cali with guns is no big deal. It sounds like walking through a minefield while blindfolded to me. 

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Here's your rules for Georgia.  Put your guns and ammo in the car.  Drive where you want to go.  Repeat as desired.  Front seat, back seat, trunk, doesn't matter.  Loaded, unloaded, magazine capacity, doesn't matter.  Bring your ammo, buy your ammo, leave your ammo, don't leave your ammo, doesn't matter.  


Georgia recognizes carry licenses/permit less carry from 33 states.


To a citizen used to those rules Cali's are a bit puzzling.

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3 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Here's your rules for Georgia.  Put your guns and ammo in the car.  Drive where you want to go.  Repeat as desired.  Front seat, back seat, trunk, doesn't matter.  Loaded, unloaded, magazine capacity, doesn't matter.  Bring your ammo, buy your ammo, leave your ammo, don't leave your ammo, doesn't matter.  

 

Don't get too comfortable, see Virginia.

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Just now, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Don't get too comfortable, see Virginia.

LOL, yeah, but I believe all of those bills were defeated weren't they?  Something like 98 counties said they wouldn't enforce the laws if they were passed?  I believe some county sheriffs were saying they would deputize pretty much any law abiding citizen who wanted it to avoid the proposed bills.

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Just now, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL, yeah, but I believe all of those bills were defeated weren't they?  Something like 98 counties said they wouldn't enforce the laws if they were passed?  I believe some county sheriffs were saying they would deputize pretty much any law abiding citizen who wanted it to avoid the proposed bills.

No they haven't been defeated. It'll be a long drawn out court battle after they do push them through and they will.

 

I personally think we need to start hanging some politicians for treason. 

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Recall?

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10 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

No they haven't been defeated. It'll be a long drawn out court battle after they do push them through and they will.

 

I personally think we need to start hanging some politicians for treason. 

You're right, my bad.  Still pending. 

 

Back to the OP.  No disrespect, but to someone used to non-California style laws, the set up out there is a bit daunting. 

 

 

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39 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

 

SMH! I remain unconvinced that traveling to Cali with guns is no big deal. It sounds like walking through a minefield while blindfolded to me. 

Captain, it really isn't a big deal.  If you think about it, you never hear of anyone getting arrested here for legal transportation of firearms.  In the Northeast, you bet.  New York and New Jersey comes to mind.  My LEO carry, even though legal under LEOSA, is not recognized in those states.

 

100's of SASS folks cross state lines yearly to and from California to shoots all over the US.  Folks fly into California from countries all over the world to shoot here.  Yes, the storage/transport rules are a nuisance but not a real issue.  Yes, it would be nice to have your gun laws here but that's not the case.  We have to work with what we have and try to change the laws.

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3 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Captain, it really isn't a big deal.  If you think about it, you never hear of anyone getting arrested here for legal transportation of firearms.  In the Northeast, you bet.  New York and New Jersey comes to mind.  My LEO carry, even though legal under LEOSA, is not recognized in those states.

 

100's of SASS folks cross state lines yearly to and from California to shoots all over the US.  Folks fly into California from countries all over the world to shoot here.  Yes, the storage/transport rules are a nuisance but not a real issue.  Yes, it would be nice to have your gun laws here but that's not the case.  We have to work with what we have and try to change the laws.

I definite wish you the best with changing them. Perhaps VA will go too far and push the USSC into a ruling that will help you out. I hope so!

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5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I definite wish you the best with changing them. Perhaps VA will go too far and push the USSC into a ruling that will help you out. I hope so!

You and me both

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2020 at 11:34 AM, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

I'm sorry you feel that way because you are missing out on some great matches and folks.  There is no hassle transporting SASS firearms into California as long as you follow the guidelines cited previously.  

 

I would love to shoot in Canada but can't cross the border, even as a retired LEO, with a self protection firearm that is with me when I travel.  By your logic, I have to pass on meeting new folks and enjoying your country.

You know when I wanted to bring my guns to the US to shoot in matches, I had to learn the US regulations that would allow this, much like you would have to learn the Canadian regulations that would allow you to shoot up here. I shot a match last year just south of Calgary with a couple from California, it can be done. I've visited web sites where even the cops don't know the laws of California either because of confusing explanation's or rapid change. I still have competing in Montana and Wyoming on my schedule for 2020. Just don't need the hassle of a dysfunctional liberal paradise.

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19 minutes ago, Dapper Dynamite Dick said:

You know when I wanted to bring my guns to the US to shoot in matches, I had to learn the US regulations that would allow this, much like you would have to learn the Canadian regulations that would allow you to shoot up here. I shot a match last year just south of Calgary with a couple from California, it can be done. I've visited web sites where even the cops don't know the laws of California either because of confusing explanation's or rapid change. I still have competing in Montana and Wyoming on my schedule for 2020. Just don't need the hassle of a dysfunctional liberal paradise.

I know I can transport my SASS firearms across the International border without a problem.  BUT, I carry a CCW Canada calls a "Restricted Weapon" in that the barrel is less than 4" long (3.5") when I travel away from home.  Just possession of said firearm at the border makes me subject to confiscation, destruction of the firearm, a fine, and possible arrest.  To me, this is a hassle I don't need.

 

We have folks from Canada shoot at out local ranges regularly who have said once they cross the International border, the rest of their travels across the US, including California, are trouble free.  That's all I am trying to get across.  Simple storage requirements don't make for any more hassle than crossing an International border. 

 

Life is about choices and you are free to make yours as you see fit.

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4 hours ago, Dapper Dynamite Dick said:

You know when I wanted to bring my guns to the US to shoot in matches, I had to learn the US regulations that would allow this, much like you would have to learn the Canadian regulations that would allow you to shoot up here. I shot a match last year just south of Calgary with a couple from California, it can be done. I've visited web sites where even the cops don't know the laws of California either because of confusing explanation's or rapid change. I still have competing in Montana and Wyoming on my schedule for 2020. Just don't need the hassle of a dysfunctional liberal paradise.

You're right about "confusing explanations and rapid change"  That's why explaining California gun laws takes a book with almost 500 pages, that has to be annualy updated. 

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1 hour ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

You're right about "confusing explanations and rapid change"  That's why explaining California gun laws takes a book with almost 500 pages, that has to be annualy updated. 

No sometimes they change the laws faster than that. 
which is the problem in California. We can turn people into felons without even trying or knowing. 

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On 1/11/2020 at 11:58 AM, Captain Bill Burt said:

Here's your rules for Georgia.  Put your guns and ammo in the car.  Drive where you want to go.  Repeat as desired.  Front seat, back seat, trunk, doesn't matter.  Loaded, unloaded, magazine capacity, doesn't matter.  Bring your ammo, buy your ammo, leave your ammo, don't leave your ammo, doesn't matter.  


Georgia recognizes carry licenses/permit less carry from 33 states.


To a citizen used to those rules Cali's are a bit puzzling.

That’s interesting about Georgia since when I was stationed there it was the first time I ever bought a gun and had a waiting period. I believe it was 5 days. Not sure if it still exists, but never experienced that again until California. 

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7 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

That’s interesting about Georgia since when I was stationed there it was the first time I ever bought a gun and had a waiting period. I believe it was 5 days. Not sure if it still exists, but never experienced that again until California. 

I can’t speak to pre-2001, but since then there hasn’t been a waiting period in Georgia. In fact with a CCL (called a GWL here) they don’t have to run the background check. There’s also no limit on the number of firearms purchased.

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I'll repeat what I said on a post about medical advice. Seeking legal or medical advice on this site could result in jail time or a missed diagnosis. From the various comments on here we have yet to determine what the actual conditions are in Californication.  Lots of opinions in conflict with each other.

I especially like the opinions from people who don't live in the State.

 

Call the DOJ or a local Highway Patrol Station. Then at least your defense is I spoke to Mr. X and he said which I followed.

IKe

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Thanks to all for a lot of great input and rebuttal on this topic.

 
The underlying spirit of this post was that despite all the rumors and wives tales, you absolutely CAN bring your cowboy action guns and ammo into California as long as you transport them according to California law; not loaded, ammo separate, locked in trunk. 
 
There’s a bunch of us Californians who regularly travel to our own clubs, and to our sister clubs, without fear of driving through the whole of California transporting our guns and ammo in our vehicles.
 
And, there’s a bunch of us who travel out of state every year to Winter Range, End of Trail, Bordertown, and more without fear of leaving and returning to California with guns in our vehicles.
 
We have about 35 CAS clubs in California, and many of us host major matches, and we’d love to have you out-of-staters come and enjoy our state, experience our clubs, meet new fellow cowpokes, and enjoy our matches with us!
 
Come shoot with us!
 
RR
PRVC’s Lazy Arrow ShootOut
 

 

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A young man from our lodge is acquiring a Taurus PT92 9mm, which is a 1911 style.

Question for OLG and other CA-savvy LEOs:  what are the correct rules for him to transport to the range here in California?

As I understand from these postings, the magazines must be unloaded.
Magazines and ammo must be separate from the gun.
Gun must be locked (trigger or transport case or both, or ??)

The young man has an extended cab pickup, open bed and no shell.
It seems sort of lame to put something of value in the bed of an open pickup.
 

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12 minutes ago, bgavin said:

A young man from our lodge is acquiring a Taurus PT92 9mm, which is a 1911 style.

Question for OLG and other CA-savvy LEOs:  what are the correct rules for him to transport to the range here in California?

As I understand from these postings, the magazines must be unloaded.
Magazines and ammo must be separate from the gun.
Gun must be locked (trigger or transport case or both, or ??)

The young man has an extended cab pickup, open bed and no shell.
It seems sort of lame to put something of value in the bed of an open pickup.
 

Very simple actually.  The unloaded firearm must be transported in a locked box since he has no trunk.  The magazines may be transported in the same box as the firearm as long as they are unloaded or can be carried separately with his ammunition.

 

His ammunition can be transported in any type container as long as it is separate from the firearm.  No trigger locks are required for transport.

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On 1/14/2020 at 7:22 AM, Roger Rapid said:

 

Thanks to all for a lot of great input and rebuttal on this topic.

 
The underlying spirit of this post was that despite all the rumors and wives tales, you absolutely CAN bring your cowboy action guns and ammo into California as long as you transport them according to California law; not loaded, ammo separate, locked in trunk. 
 
There’s a bunch of us Californians who regularly travel to our own clubs, and to our sister clubs, without fear of driving through the whole of California transporting our guns and ammo in our vehicles.
 
And, there’s a bunch of us who travel out of state every year to Winter Range, End of Trail, Bordertown, and more without fear of leaving and returning to California with guns in our vehicles.
 
We have about 35 CAS clubs in California, and many of us host major matches, and we’d love to have you out-of-staters come and enjoy our state, experience our clubs, meet new fellow cowpokes, and enjoy our matches with us!
 
Come shoot with us!
 
RR
PRVC’s Lazy Arrow ShootOut
 

 

 

8 hours ago, bgavin said:

A young man from our lodge is acquiring a Taurus PT92 9mm, which is a 1911 style.

Question for OLG and other CA-savvy LEOs:  what are the correct rules for him to transport to the range here in California?

As I understand from these postings, the magazines must be unloaded.
Magazines and ammo must be separate from the gun.
Gun must be locked (trigger or transport case or both, or ??)


The young man has an extended cab pickup, open bed and no shell.
It seems sort of lame to put something of value in the bed of an open pickup.
 

 

7 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Very simple actually.  The unloaded firearm must be transported in a locked box since he has no trunk.  The magazines may be transported in the same box as the firearm as long as they are unloaded or can be carried separately with his ammunition.

 

His ammunition can be transported in any type container as long as it is separate from the firearm.  No trigger locks are required for transport.

 

 

Incorrect again guys. 


There is no law in the state of California that states the ammunition must be stored separate from the firearm. Read that again for the slow. The firearm(s) must be unloaded, but we have case law in this state that states ammunition stored on a butt stock slip with loops or in a sling with cartridge loops is not a loaded firearm. There are however local jurisdictions that require all kinds of stupid crap. For example City of Los Angeles has a pocket knife max blade length law that is pretty ridiculous. 

Then for handguns and handguns only the case must be locked. There is no definition of a lock so your kids  ten cent lock from their lunch box would be legal.  The case can be a soft case but it must be locked.

I'm going to sound like Duc McCandless
If you post your opinion cite the rule book or it don't count. And if you read back a few posts, I did just that. 


Now that said. One more warning for coming into California and for those of you that carry concealed. 
If any of you cross into California with any handgun that is capable of chambering a shotgun shell (not shot shells in handgun cartridges but shotgun shell like a 410) That is a Shot barreled shotgun in this state and it's a felony. So no Torus Judge, No bond arms, no nothing that can chamber a shotgun shell in a handgun. 

In reality though the likelihood of getting stopped is slim to none 

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On 1/7/2020 at 12:13 AM, Roger Rapid said:
...6) The border check points are agricultural and customs stops. Their concern is with who is coming into the U.S. on the northern and southern borders ... they do not ask “do you have firearms or ammunition?” ....

 

Federal officers can not legally enforce State laws.

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As a partner in an investment banking house, I several times determined to settle erroneous small claims to avoid the legal costs which would have far outstripped the desired judgement. 

 

The contention by California apologists that there is no problem with their state's fire arms control laws loses sight of the reality that defending us would entail onerous legal expenses. Although Dirty Dog Dave 555551 of

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36 minutes ago, Matthew Duncan said:

 

Federal officers can not legally enforce State laws.

correct. But the Checkpoints coming into California are staffed by State Ag agents. 
and without going into a whole laundry list of garbage. All they ask is "are you bringing in any fruits or vegetables or plants" they may ask about animals too. but as with all LEO's don't give them probable cause for anything. and don't be a sovereign citizen idiot either. 

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2 hours ago, Son of the Midnight Star said:

 

Incorrect again guys. 
 

While you cite correct line and verse, not all LEOs know the specific CAPC language involved.  By following the guidelines OLG and I offered, that young man should not have any problems with law enforcement in the unlikely event he is stopped.  Transporting ammunition separate from the firearm is really a pound of prevention for a novice firearms owner you might say.

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49 minutes ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

 

The contention by California apologists that there is no problem with their state's fire arms control laws loses sight of the reality that defending us would entail onerous legal expenses. 

No one has said our firearms laws aren't screwed up, we are simply offering the correct method in navigating the laws should our SASS brothers and sisters want to come and shoot with us.

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