I sometimes wonder what happened to Quality Control and Customer Service?

[Clay Mosby]

Used to be a time when quality control and customer service were paramount to a company's success. It seems those times are fading away.

 

Here's my example:

After suffering for years with a rinky dink table top router table I decided to pull the trigger on a top quality full size router table. Found a great deal on one with all sorts of bells and whistles on Amazon, so I plunked down the card and ordered one.

It arrived a few days later, and after unboxing and checking that everything was there, I discarded the piles of cardboard and packing foam. Here's where I made my mistake. I verified that all the parts were there, but not that they were the Correct ones!

So I start happily assembling things. Got the heavy duty stand assembled then started to set up the lift that raises or lowers the router, and discovered my old router wouldn't work so had to order a new one. Oh well.

But then I went to mount the table top to the stand.I suppose I should have been suspicious when the ad showed it was white while the one I received was black. Anyway, the table tops are machined out to fit a specific lift mechanism, and this one was definitely NOT made to fit the lift I received, definitely NOT the one in the ad. Damn.

 

So I contact the tool company that was selling the system through Amazon. I told them I had discarded the packaging but if they sent me the correct table I would use the packaging to send the other one back. Their response was for me to repackage it and they would send me a return label. No mention of sending the correct one. A couple of email exchanges later they tell me they won't have the correct top in stock for "about two weeks."  XXX?? You didn't have the correct top in stock so you sent the wrong one? Seriously? I told them that in my reply. also that they weren't doing a very good job of impressing customers with their service. 

 

Bottom line it looks like at least three weeks before I can assemble and use it.  They don't seem to care.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

I'm surprised you found an English speaking person to talk with in the first place......

 

LL

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

All the serious customer service people went to work for Dillon, or retired. The rest are in the process of learning a foreign language, are studying self administered lobotomy or are currently being"reeducated" at a crazy house somewhere down the lane. 

 

Imis

[Pat Riot]

Contact Amazon directly. I had a problem like this a couple of years ago and they stepped in and jerked a knot in the vendor’s tail. 
 

telephone: 888-280-4331

[Charlie Plasters, SASS#60943]

I have had a couple of issues with food products lately. Planters cocktail peanuts have had lots of crappy peanuts in their mix so when notified all they are going to do is send me a coupon.  Honey Maid cinnamon graham crackers made in Mexico have had blck contamination on them.  At first it was the coupon thing again but after I made a case for wanting to know what I may have ingested they are going to run lab tests on them and notify me of the results.

[bgavin]

Quality Control costs money that most people do not want to pay.

"Hecho en China" always makes me laugh.  A lot.
The problem with Chinese goods is not where they are made, but how they are spec'ed to be made.

I had a nice conversation with the owner of Studio Projects microphones.
His engineers design them to be top notch, and has them manufactured in China.
I own several of these, and the quality is superb.
The Chinese are fully capable of producing stellar quality optics, electronics and products... if you pay for them.

The Walmart mentality is low price, which incurs low quality.

Closer to home, Stoeger apparently has the reputation for breaking a large number of SxS barrel hinge joints.
Mine included.
TNN doubles (Hecho in China) apparently have a better reputation.

[Pat Riot]

When I can help it I choose not to support Communists. 

[Subdeacon Joe]

Speed, speed, speed.  That is what has happened to QA. And corporate CYA paperwork.  
Our programmer for the mills has a sign in his office, 

 

[Trailrider #896]

What happened to quality control and customer service?  Went the way of the 10-cent Coca Cola!  The right front burner on our countertop electric stone went out. Bought it originally when we redid the kitchen counters...from Home Depot.  Called them up to see if we can still get parts, get repair, etc.  Guy that answered said he'd connect me with the repair department. Put me on hold.  Phone range about a dozen time, then disconnected.  Called him back.  Same scenario.  Called back again.  Same guy said he would have someone call me back.  Still waiting...24 hours later!

[Tom Bullweed]

I have worked in manufacturing since 1983 making pc boards, furniture, precision metal assemblies, nuclear material vessels and now truck bodies.

The level of quality, service and innovation of a company are all now determined by the accounting and sales departments.

Most CEOs are former COOs, controllers, lawyers or VP of Sales.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

For 40+ years, I have represented manufacturers, fabricators, utilities and similar businesses that make and sell hard goods and services.  When I started, most of the folks I met when I made my initial visit to corporate headquarters or the factory were founders or the sons of founders.  They had worked every job in the shop, starting with a broom and moving up through production, assembly, sales and management.  These were the folks I needed for design and manufacturing information; these were the folks who testified for me at depositions and trials, providing encyclopedic knowledge of the history of their products.  In the late 1980's, you could sense some changes happening.  Price was driving quality, instead of the reverse.  The founders were dying off, and their kids wanted nothing to do with hard work or the business.  It became easier to sell the  business to venture capital people or foreign investors, and use the money for yachts and sports cars and houses at the beach.  These new owners had no sense of history, no connection to the product, and often no idea of what it meant to make a quality product and stand behind it.   By 2000, nothing really mattered except the almighty dollar.  One of my clients, now devoid of working engineers and true QC folks, was outsourcing 90% of their products offshore, and "designing" products simply to meet Walmart specs; another, in a flash of management brilliance, started forcing long-term employees out (saving  $) and brought in wet-behind the ears management people from a major food distributor to run a propane retailer; these folks had no idea how to run a gas business, let alone what operational issues impacted liability losses and adverse jury verdicts.  

 

Bottom line:  I've had the sad job of watching the demise of American manufacturing.  And with it quality.  And I don't see any sign that it will cycle back again.  Somethings cannot be re-created once they are gone.

 

LL

[Cypress Sun]

8 minutes ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

For 40+ years, I have represented manufacturers, fabricators, utilities and similar businesses that make and sell hard goods and services.  When I started, most of the folks I met when I made my initial visit to corporate headquarters or the factory were founders or the sons of founders.  They had worked every job in the shop, starting with a broom and moving up through production, assembly, sales and management.  These were the folks I needed for design and manufacturing information; these were the folks who testified for me at depositions and trials, providing encyclopedic knowledge of the history of their products.  In the late 1980's, you could sense some changes happening.  Price was driving quality, instead of the reverse.  The founders were dying off, and their kids wanted nothing to do with hard work or the business.  It became easier to sell the  business to venture capital people or foreign investors, and use the money for yachts and sports cars and houses at the beach.  These new owners had no sense of history, no connection to the product, and often no idea of what it meant to make a quality product and stand behind it.   By 2000, nothing really mattered except the almighty dollar.  One of my clients, now devoid of working engineers and true QC folks, was outsourcing 90% of their products offshore, and "designing" products simply to meet Walmart specs; another, in a flash of management brilliance, started forcing low-term employees out (saving  $) and brought in wet-behind the ears management people from a major food distributor to run a propane retailer; these folks had no idea how to run a gas business, let alone what operational issues impacted liability losses and adverse jury verdicts.  

 

Bottom line:  I've had the sad job of watching the demise of American manufacturing.  And with it quality.  And I don't see any sign that it will cycle back again.  Somethings cannot be re-created once they are gone.

 

LL

 

No sugar coating there, just the plain truth. Thanks Loophole, I wish it wasn't that way but I guess it is. At least I know, in my heart, that I have maintained my integrity and standard of quality when it comes to my trade of electrical work. From what I've seen recently of others work, that is going the same way as you have described.

 

The only company that really seems to still stand behind their product and have decent customer service is Dillon.

 

Reminds me of a line from a Harry Chapin song.....Whatever we had once was gone.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

Whenever I see those old films of GM and Whirlpool and other manufacturers, converting their factories from cars and washing machines to tanks and planes and guns, I wonder if we could ever respond again to a sudden need for hard manufacturing.  Do we have the trades and the management and the tools to do it again?  Not sure.  Robots can do a lot, but somebody has to program the robots.

 

LL

[Dustin Checotah]

4 hours ago, Trailrider #896 said:

The right front burner on our countertop electric stone went out.

 

I recently had an issue with the right front burner on my stove. The temp control was really off. I had noticed that it was running very hot when I put it on medium. I looked up GE parts for my model and ordered them. They came in in about 4 days and I changed the switch out. The change out took about 15 minutes. 

From your description it could be the switch or the wiring. Most likely not the burner. Lift the burners out and lift the cover  then check where the burner plugs in for overhearing, then look at the wires back to the switch for overheating, take the back off and look at the switch. My stove is probably 10 years old but the parts were available.  The part for the burner was about $25 + shipping. If your stove is under warranty then call the manufacturer don't deal with the Big Box store.

[Fence Cutter]

Quality control & customer-service has faded into the sunset just like common sense & manners.

[Sedalia Dave]

When somebody decided that you could go to college and and learn everything it took to be a manager rather than work your way to the top they condemned the rest of us to shoddy workmanship.

 

There are some interesting articles about how big box retailers strongarm companies into providing them with low cost merchandise to sell.

 

 

[Sedalia Dave]

17 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Whenever I see those old films of GM and Whirlpool and other manufacturers, converting their factories from cars and washing machines to tanks and planes and guns, I wonder if we could ever respond again to a sudden need for hard manufacturing.  Do we have the trades and the management and the tools to do it again?  Not sure.  Robots can do a lot, but somebody has to program the robots.

 

LL

 

If we fired most of the management we could do it no problem.

[punxsutawneypete]

 

Quote

 

 

At least one company that I've had to deal with seems to have made the decision to avoid contact with the user of its products at all costs.  I had to make a change in some of my personal information and so I went to the company web page and used the email function to try to accomplish that.  Nobody replied.  So I tried to call the company.  Nowhere on the web page was there a telephone number for the company.  I was getting concerned because I had time crunch coming up for getting my issue resolved.

 

By happenstance, I clicked on a link to some agreement and found a telephone number on that document.  I then spent the next several hours calling that telephone number, getting a voice mail response and then being immediately disconnected.  After numerous attempts, I finally was connected to someone with a pulse.  The young fellow seemed to be totally clueless about how to talk to a living person.  When I told him of my issue, his answer was "Go to the web site."  I told him I did that twice and nobody responded.  

 

I finally had to put it to him "Are you telling me there is nobody in this entire company who can help me with my problem?"  I forget what he did, but it wasn't a satisfactory answer to me and I had to ask him that same question again.  He finally connected me with a lady who exhibited knowledge and experience in dealing with customers and she resolved everything for me.  

 

Maybe automated systems can resolve 80% of the issues that come up.  But a customer should not have to spend the better part of a day just to find a human being to talk to about a problem that doesn't fit into a neat little electronic box.

[Clay Mosby]

Still swapping emails with the company. They keep telling me I have to ship the incorrect top back, but haven't sent me the return shipping label yet! The dang thing it 24"x32" and weighs a good 15+ pounds! I sure as hell ain't paying the shipping for that!

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Re:Router tables with lifts and retrofits.  I found it easier and cheaper in the long run to just buy a dedicated system From Rockler

[Imis Twohofon,SASS # 46646]

We have met the enemy and he is us

 

Imis

[Clay Mosby]

1 hour ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said:

Re:Router tables with lifts and retrofits.  I found it easier and cheaper in the long run to just buy a dedicated system From Rockler

That's what I bought. The issue was they sent the wrong top as part of the system. As for the router itself, I needed a new one anyway, so that wasn't an issue. It's on me for not reading all the fie print regarding compatible routers.

[Sixgun Sheridan]

We live in an age of high-volume sales. Making the effort to win customers over one person at a time just isn't profitable anymore. Instead, you sell the same crap to a thousand people, let the few who complain die on the vine... rinse and repeat.

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

On 1/4/2020 at 8:52 AM, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Contact Amazon directly. I had a problem like this a couple of years ago and they stepped in and jerked a knot in the vendor’s tail. 
 

telephone: 888-280-4331

Amazon can and will suspend sellers if they get the right complaints.  Hit em in the bottom line-they get interested.

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

I just returned from a Lands End store in the Twin Cities area. Decades ago, a man who was a US Sailing Senior Judge and was one of my mentors started it. It sold sailboat parts. All of its sales personnel were experts and courteous and friendly.

 

I went in and there were two clerks at the main counter. One was with a customer. The other said I'll get back to you and left to spend ten minutes folding and stacking cardboard boxes before wheeling them into the back. No one gave a d__n about a customer.

 

Welcome to modern mercantilism.

[Tequila Shooter]

On 1/5/2020 at 10:15 AM, Sedalia Dave said:

When somebody decided that you could go to college and and learn everything it took to be a manager rather than work your way to the top they condemned the rest of us to shoddy workmanship.

 

 

That's one of the BIG differences between the military and the private sector.  In the military whether officer or enlisted you have to work and put your time in to get to the top.  Of course this makes for better leaders not managers but leaders.

[bgavin]

I have a pet phrase for this... "We have so much business, we don't need yours."

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

I went in and there were two clerks at the main counter. One was with a customer. The other said I'll get back to you and left to spend ten minutes folding and stacking cardboard boxes before wheeling them into the back. No one gave a d__n about a customer.

 

Things like that happen to me all the time. It's flat out unbelievable how many times I've stood at a counter waiting to be rung out or looked for a salesperson and treated like I'm a ghost. But I bet if I were a sexy 22 yo female showing ample cleavage the salespeople would be all over me like flies on a turd.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

I just returned from a Lands End store in the Twin Cities area. Decades ago, a man who was a US Sailing Senior Judge and was one of my mentors started it. It sold sailboat parts. All of its sales personnel were experts and courteous and friendly.

 

I went in and there were two clerks at the main counter. One was with a customer. The other said I'll get back to you and left to spend ten minutes folding and stacking cardboard boxes before wheeling them into the back. No one gave a d__n about a customer.

 

Welcome to modern mercantilism.

 

And you won't find any sailboat parts in Lands End anymore, either.

 

LL

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hi Clay,

 

I've had good results with Amazon. One time I bought something and gave a negative review. The manufacturer/importer/whatever wrote that they'd give me a 50% refund if I removed or changed my review. I forwarded it to Amazon, with a comment that I thought it wasn't ethical. They send a shipping label and I got a refund. I purchased the item from someone else.

 

Allie