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Tomahawk Ryder

Pocket pistols

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Hey guys.  A new shooter and I’m also interested in the pocket pistol side matches.  

 

Is the Uberti 1873 Stallion (Cattleman) in .38 Spcl with a 3.5” barrel a legal pocket pistol?  Think it meets the pre-1900, caliber, and barrel length requirements.  Just wanted to make sure and ask the experts.  

 

I’m looking for a dependable, modern reproduction chambered in .38 Spcl, instead of a period correct .32 lemon squeezer variant.  .32 RF is problematic.  

 

Anything else anyone might recommend?

 

Thanks for the help.  

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No

 

" Model “P” Colts and clones and revolvers with swing out cylinders are specifically not allowed regardless of caliber, frame size, or barrel length. "

 

The Stallion and Cattleman are a Colt Model "P" clone.

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Oh, and welcome to the best game there is.

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Sir, thanks for the correction.  Is there another modern-made pocket pistol clone in .38 Spcl that you might recommend or have seen used?  

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1 hour ago, Tomahawk Ryder said:

I’m looking for a dependable, modern reproduction chambered in .38 Spcl, instead of a period correct .32 lemon squeezer variant.  .32 RF is problematic.  

 

Anything else anyone might recommend?

 

Thanks for the help.  

 

Welcome!!  Just a note in passing, the S&W .32 "lemon squeezers"  (.32 New Departure, Safety Hammerless), and most of the knock-offs are .32 center-fire, not rim-fire.  Ammo is available, plus it's easy to reload.  

They also made the same thing in .38 S&W (center-fire)

 

I really can't think of a modern pocket revolver that doesn't have a swing-out cylinder, or is a cut-down version of a main-match revolver.  hmmmm....  maybe someone else can think of one?   

But, you can definitely use modern derringers for the Derringer side-match.

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Howdy

 

The idea is, if it is acceptable as a Main Match pistol, it is not acceptable as a Pocket Pistol. And Vice Versa.

 

As far as I know, there are no modern made revolvers that would be acceptable as a Pocket Pistol. You will have to buy an antique.

 

Like this Top Break Smith and Wesson 32 Safety Hammerless AKA a Lemonsqueezer.

 

 

image.thumb.jpeg.e3f7f52cd8f207b9fc3f88d3b8799340.jpeg

 

 

 

 

Or this 38 Safety Hammerless. Note, these revolvers were not chambered for 38 Special, they were chambered for 38 S&W, an older round that is not interchangeable with 38 Special.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.25ee725a70c4d87c634876337f6474b9.jpeg

 

 

 

 

These revolvers came with hammers too, like this 38 Double Action.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.8555165d498734485a21a5c28e1276e0.jpeg

 

 

 

 

There were single action Top Break revolvers too, but nobody who wants to win will probably shoot one of them. This is a S&W 32 Single Action.

 

image.thumb.jpeg.b87e1e28aaec37d4c8b0936b6bf19f8c.jpeg

 

 

 

 

There were other brands too. This Iver Johnson 38 Safety Hammerless only cost me about $100, but that was a long time ago.

 

image.jpeg.db3dd9ecd99799be64bc01f6a09554da.jpeg

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I have a Forehand & Wadsworth (has F&W on the grip) in .38 S&W I reload for. Very light load of TB and it goes pop-pop.

Similar to the S&W and Ivers. Love those Owl-head grips.

If you look around a little, you can find .32s and .38s in these, mostly nickel plated guns. Have a competent 'smith check it out before ya shoot it though...

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Colt Thunderers are fun. That's what I use. Lightnings are also a hoot. ;)

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Gentlemen? Where? Bunch of miscreants says I. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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I've always thought that one of the percussion pocket pistols with a conversion cylinder, if set up properly, could be slip-hammered and very fast.

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If the new Cimarron in 380 acp would have a short barrel as original proposed, I think it could have been a great pocket pistol, but who wants to buy a gun and then have to cut the barrel off...

 

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Seems I remember reading on here, way back, that none of the .32 conversion cylinders were reliable??  If that were not true I would likely have been in the market for a pair of cylinders for my '49 Colts a long time ago.

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Pocket Pistols come in all shapes and sizes, and were made by all kinds of different manufacturers.  For example...

 

1603729952_MH.thumb.jpg.3b3d60e9647a4540e712efb42c87d3a7.jpg

This is a Merwin and Hulbert .38 Smith and Wesson.   Yes, it is single action, but I have found that it works very well in side matches built around accuracy instead of speed.

 

IJ.thumb.jpg.d75760cd27d850c9fc8c6f19ccc50e37.jpg

This one is an Iver Johnson, again in .38 Smith and Wesson.  I was not sure if the target grips disqualified it or not, so I asked here on the Wire, and Palewolf himself said they were okay.  Used it at End of the Trail a few years ago.

 

11848290_FW.thumb.jpg.ea42235fd411f39a17eab4b2d20f181b.jpg

Forehand and Wadsworth .32 Smith and Wesson.   Note:  In this gun, like many guns in this caliber, .32 Smith and Wesson Longs will chamber, but you should not do so.   One way to know is that Longs will not clear the chambers when the extractor is fully extended.

 

Colt.thumb.jpg.6ce681488a412634e2ce35254ef8acb0.jpg

Colt Lightning  .38 Long Colt.  This has become my favorite pocket pistol.   You can use Short Colts in it if you want to.   For a while there was an ongoing disagreement as to if they were legal pocket pistols or not.  It was recently announced that yes, they are as long as the barrel is short enough.

 

1567888993_HA.thumb.jpg.692f36425f985f5fbf767b9d51d86f30.jpg

Hopkins and Allen, .32 Smith and Wesson.  I found this tiny little thing and thought it was kinda "cute" It literally fits in the palm of my hand.  I have not yet used it in a side match.Chi.thumb.jpg.627ae85c10eccbe44dc5e27d787bf0cc.jpg

Nor have I used this "Chicago Firearms" .32 Smith and Wesson gun.   No info about the makers, but the broken grip is the only problem with it.  For forty bucks I figured what the heck.

 

All of the above, except for the Iver Johnson are antiques and should only be fired with black powder or a substitute.  I have fired some of them with light smokeless rounds, but that was probably not a good idea on my part, so I don't do it anymore.   And, to give you a sense of scale....

 

Pockets.thumb.jpg.b7f621f0f8d30f75819b70483cf0c822.jpg

The Lightning is slightly smaller than an SAA.

Good luck and happy shooting.  Except for the the Colt, all of these were purchased for less than a hundred dollars.  Some a long time ago, some rather recently.  So, good shootable, if old, pocket pistols can be found relatively easily for an affordable price.  

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1 hour ago, WymoreWrangler SASS 46187 said:

If the new Cimarron in 380 acp would have a short barrel as original proposed, I think it could have been a great pocket pistol, but who wants to buy a gun and then have to cut the barrel off...

 

 

REF the ROC "opinion" posted on THIS THREAD .

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I have 13 of them! Kind of addicting!  I’ve paid 100 to 425. The cheaper ones like Iver Johnsons are ok, but not very robust. The S&W new departures are good. Or any S&W. My best is a “perfected model” has a latch on top and one on the side.  I also have H&Rs and a Merwin Hulbert. The MH is a fine gun, just not as fast. My Colt Lightning has a 41/4” barrel so not legal. And while it functions fine the mechanism is to delicate to hold up to the rough treatment of pocket pistol matches. 
 

the MH has a funny story. I saw it at a gun show, drooled all over it but he was asking $750, which was more than I would pay. I looked at it every month, and he finally dropped the price to 650, then 600, then 575. I was starting to be tempted. I asked him what was his best price, he said “make an offer”.  I offered $300, he said “SOLD”! I think he was  tired of hauling it around.  I saw the same model at Collectors Firearms in Houston for $1800. (They are notoriously high) mine is in better shape. 
 

moral of the story, watch your local gun shows. They turn up frequently, and deals are out there. 
 

I only shoot BP or subs (usually APP)  in mine. 

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6 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

Gentlemen? Where? Bunch of miscreants says I. :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Down boy...Back in the dog house....

 

Texas Lizard

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2 hours ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

REF the ROC "opinion" posted on THIS THREAD .

When this was originally announced, I contacted you and it was your then opinion that it would be legal, so I hadn't seen the ROC ruling...

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I am going to say if it is not a DA revolver you are starting at a disadvantage.  Never tried anything than a MH good enough to win with.

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the 2nd pistol has adjustable sights.  not PP legal 

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17 minutes ago, Hoss said:

the 2nd pistol has adjustable sights.  not PP legal 

 

Which is kind of funny if you think about it.  :)

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26 minutes ago, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

 

Which is kind of funny if you think about it.  :)

Abilene, I get a fine classic sight picture for every shot while shooting 5 rounds in <2 seconds with my pocket pistols. I’m sure adjustable sights would be a huge help!

 

yea, I don’t know why the no adjustable sights allowed either. 

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Adjustable sights are handy for your pocket pistol in case you ever end up seated at an extra wide card table. :)

 

Seamus

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if nothing else i enjoy seeing your photos of these , but on top of that i always learn some new things , thanks all for the great photos and posts , 

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I picked up my 1905-10 vintage .32 S&W lemon Squeezer that looks like it spent the last 100 years in a sock drawer at a small pawn shop for next to nothing . Almost all the blueing is intact and no corrosion.

 

Shop only had a small firearms section so their knowledge about less common firearms is limited. I stop there occasionally on my way to a bigger store and it paid off.

 

Lee makes a set of dies that come with load data. I use a lee hand press clamped in my armours vice to load the ammo.

 

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On 1/3/2020 at 11:25 AM, Hoss said:

the 2nd pistol has adjustable sights.  not PP legal 

 

 

true,

but there was a fixed sight version too. I just couldn't find a picture of it.

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There are quite a few really absurd rules in SASS that originated at the beginning. Banning adjustable sights for pocket pistols is one of them :P

 

How many of us use any sight at pocket pistol side matches? ;)

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1 hour ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

There are quite a few really absurd rules in SASS that originated at the beginning. Banning adjustable sights for pocket pistols is one of them :P

 

How many of us use any sight at pocket pistol side matches? ;)

I always figured some of these odd rules have more to do with what guns/equipment the rule-writer had rather than what may have been historically accurate. But I ain’t complaining. I love the game! 

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3 hours ago, Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life said:

There are quite a few really absurd rules in SASS that originated at the beginning. Banning adjustable sights for pocket pistols is one of them :P

 

How many of us use any sight at pocket pistol side matches? ;)

 

Well, I do, if it's a pocket pistol accuracy side match.   Speed, well, no...

I will agree though that some of the rules are quite odd.   I have a Smith and Wesson New Model 3 made in 1880 something.   It's a target model, and in addition to the sights being adjustable, there is something about the configuration of the front sight that makes them unusable as a main match gun.

I don't get it.

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