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45-70 Long Range


irish ike, SASS #43615

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What dies are you using to reload?  I usually just reload the fire formed cases with no sizing. But I need to stretch the brass which requires me to use the sizing die. And for some reason???? my brass won't go into the sizing die easily. I checked spec's on the brass and they are right on spec. so they should slide right into the sizing die?

Ike

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2 minutes ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

What dies are you using to reload?  I usually just reload the fire formed cases with no sizing. But I need to stretch the brass which requires me to use the sizing die. And for some reason???? my brass won't go into the sizing die easily. I checked spec's on the brass and they are right on spec. so they should slide right into the sizing die?

Ike

What lube are you using?  I use Imperial Sizing wax.

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You will really need to wet the cases for it to work. After sticking a 30-06 case in a die I switched to Imperial Sizing wax and haven't regretted the decision.

 

Save that lube for pistol cases 

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What brass are you using?

I do have some I have to use an extra amount of force to fully re-size, but I just make sure the entire length of the case is lubed.

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1 hour ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Using Dillon Case lube. If I set the sizing dies so it touches the shell plate I can'y get the case more than half way in before ot feels like its going to stick

 

Sounds like Lyman dies.

Do you shake up the bottle before using it?

I size my .45-70 cases with a RCBS .45-90 F/L size die.

If your case shortened that much from firing.  I would do a chamber cast as somedangthing is way out of spec....

OLG 

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I reloaded my first .45-70 rounds using Lee dies just yesterday. I also stuck a case in my .30-06 sizing die several months ago, so I lubed the .45-70 cases generously with One Shot. Make sure you get lube inside the neck as well as on the outside. I lay them all out on a towel, spray them down, roll them half over, then spray again.

 

I was surprised how easily they sized. The brass was once fired with reduced Plainsman loads, so YMMV. It was a piece of cake.

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Irish Ike... I think you're asking why .45-70s are so hard to force into the sizing die - and you say "stretch," but I think you mean compress back to size - am I correct? Unlike straight-sided cases that feed reasonably easily into a sizing die, the .45-70 case is tapered its entire length, and resizing takes quite a bit of effort since the case is continuously compressed as it is forced into the die , even if well lubed.

RR

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1 hour ago, Roger Rapid said:

Irish Ike... I think you're asking why .45-70s are so hard to force into the sizing die - and you say "stretch," but I think you mean compress back to size - am I correct? Unlike straight-sided cases that feed reasonably easily into a sizing die, the .45-70 case is tapered its entire length, and resizing takes quite a bit of effort since the case is continuously compressed as it is forced into the die , even if well lubed.

RR

 

I have been reloading .45-70 for lever rifle a SS, close to 20yrs.

If the chamber is cut 'rite', it's no big deal to F/L size.

Dillon spray lube is one of the best, and what the OP uses.

OP-What brand case are you using?

OLG 

 

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The whole story;

I haven't shot LR for about 3 years. Shoulder issues and then replacement. I'm shooting a Pedersoli 45-70. a 535 grain Postell sized to 459.

Yesterday I thought I'd get my clean fire formed brass out, re-anneal it, and check it for length.  When I started everything was cut to 2.105. I shot this brass for 2 years with no issues. Hit what I aimed at. When I reloaded cleaned with SS pins, checked the case mouth to be sure it was round and smooth. Dropped the powder in and pushed the bullet in by hand, no crimping.

Yesterday I measured every empty case I have with 2 different calipers. Lengths ranged from 2.095 down to 2.075. Most were around 2.093.

I got out the brass stretcher I bought. You're supposed to use an RCBS sizing die with the stretcher used. It requires that you have the die all the way down until it touches the shell holder then you back it off roughly 3 turns. Then you adjust the brass puller to go into the case mouth and as you stroke the case up and down, you lower the stretcher further into the mouth.

I couldn't get he die down to where it needed to be as the brass felt like it would stick!

Brass rim, base, and mouth all measure to spec. So they are not blown out because of a loose chamber.

I'm going to try Bore Butter and I have Imperial was coming. Also going to borrow another die to see if it resolves itself.

Ike

 

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I had the same problem when I tried the spray lubes.  Switched to a lube pad and Imperial Bio Green.  Now the 45 70 and 45 110 cases glide in and out of the sizing die.

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All of the brass is Winchester and all the same age. But maybe not equal in the rounds shot from them.  I shoot BP so they are in Dawn soap and water for about 2 hours.

I ordered Imperial Wax as I tried Bore Butter and the case went right into the sizer.

I was speaking to two other long range shooters in my club with years and years of shooting BPCR and BP. They checked their cases and they are all now short and varying in length. Sp try to figure out how to stretch brass 5 to 15 thousands or get new brass?

Ike

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I deprime and use a 3:1 mix of water to vinegar for about 15-20 minutes before rinse and into my tumbler.

Back your size die off, 1 to 1 1/2 turns away from the shell holder.

You are over working the brass for that chamber.

Try a .45-90 F/L size die.

OLG 

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Straight cases such as 45-70 and 45-90 are known to get shorter from multiple firings. The inexpensive Tim-Smith Lyon "stretcher" requires considerable strokes  to stretch the cases and only stretches them in the neck area resulting in noticeable thinner necks. That will obviously affect neck tension. The much more expensive kal-max stretches stretches the cases in the middle. Whether the shorter cases result in measurable accuracy loss is the issue. If you can't see any difference in accuracy I would not worry about it. If you can you must decide if it is easier/cheaper to buy new cases or go to he expense and trouble of stretching the ones you have. I  you decide to stretch cases it is important that they be properly annealed first.   I finally bought a new AMP annealer from New  Zealand.  It is absolutely AMAZING.  I sold my trusty Bench Source machine as I feel the AMP is orders of magnitude more accurate.

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16 minutes ago, Happy Jack, SASS #20451 said:

Straight cases such as 45-70 and 45-90 are known to get shorter from multiple firings. The inexpensive Tim-Smith Lyon "stretcher" requires considerable strokes  to stretch the cases and only stretches them in the neck area resulting in noticeable thinner necks. That will obviously affect neck tension. The much more expensive kal-max stretches stretches the cases in the middle. Whether the shorter cases result in measurable accuracy loss is the issue. If you can't see any difference in accuracy I would not worry about it. If you can you must decide if it is easier/cheaper to buy new cases or go to he expense and trouble of stretching the ones you have. I  you decide to stretch cases it is important that they be properly annealed first.   I finally bought a new AMP annealer from New  Zealand.  It is absolutely AMAZING.  I sold my trusty Bench Source machine as I feel the AMP is orders of magnitude more accurate.

 

WARNING-THREAD 'DRIFT' ^_^

Been reading about'em.

Which model did you buy?

Did you buy it from the maker or?

OLG 

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For all the big rifle cases I went with pure lanolin. The spray does not have enough lanolin in it.

   I got a 7 oz.  tub at the local vegan fruit, nuts, and flakes store for $8.  I put it 

on sparingly with my fingers then stand them in the tray to size.   

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26 minutes ago, The Coconino Pistolero, SASS # 72432 said:

For all the big rifle cases I went with pure lanolin. The spray does not have enough lanolin in it.

   I got a 7 oz.  tub at the local vegan fruit, nuts, and flakes store for $8.  I put it 

on sparingly with my fingers then stand them in the tray to size.   

 

There are different grades lanolin. 

I buy my case lube from Sagebrush Products. 

OLG 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have been using Hornady Dies and either lyman or RCBS case lube and a lube pad for years without any real difficulty full length sizing 45 / 70 cases.  I did come off the dime recently to buy an Annealeez that I have yet to use as I have not been shooting much over the hot summer in AZ.

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