Texas church shooter

[Raylan]

One parishioner dead, one wounded, and the killer dead. At least six of the congregation were armed and responded to the threat. I am sure things would have been better if they would have called 911 and waited for the police to take on that shotgun armed animal.

 

 

 

https://www.citizenfreepress.com/breaking/breaking-exclusive-video-church-shooting-in-texas-leaves-2-dead-developing/

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

The guy from in the back took him out with a single shot from at least 15 yards away.  Awesome shooting under fire.  It appears that the first person the bad guy shot was attempting to draw a concealed gun when shot.  

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

Good for the alertTexas congregation. Sorry about the dead/wounded church members; good riddance to the POS shooter.

[Savvy Jack]

Uncensored version
Scroll down where it says WARNING: The video below is graphic. Viewer discretion is advised.

Good guy took him out with a head shot from a good 15 yards

First guy attempted to draw with a shotgun pointing at him..
guy next to him was also shot 
Bad guy (head shot)

https://concealednation.org/2019/12/warning-graphic-video-show-moments-before-and-after-west-freeway-church-of-christ-shooting/?fbclid=IwAR1VlltJa3EOezi273ZWlfHq0dXfa9oMAVikeEqjjsRnrHeNH--s9QRK-A4

[Pat Riot]

Churches are no longer “Gun Free Zones”.

It’s truly a shame that this is the case these days. 

I no longer go to church very often but in Oregon I went every Sunday and every Sunday I was packin’. 
 

Helluva society we have now, huh?

[Seamus McGillicuddy]

Used to be your “church gun” was a little .32 or the like.  Now it’s likely to be your most serious carry piece. 
 

Seamus

[Trigger Mike]

from what I read, he was a security guard for the church, so he was doing his job.

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

I don't attend church services regularly, but I'm getting closer and closer to carrying a SBR everywhere I go.  

[Rooster Ron Wayne]

We have a Armed crew of guys at our Church .

Everyone of them have head sets to talk to each other. 

When the Service starts the doors are locked with the armed guards walking the halls. 

Then there are several of us within the congregation who are armed setting in different sections in the sanctuary. 

It's sad that we have to do this .

But a Armed Society is a Polite Society. 

I will be suprised if this even makes the National News .

Rooster 

[Widder, SASS #59054]

Please feel free to correct me on this because I have viewed this video atleast a dozen times

and this is what appears to me.

 

It looks like the perp was wearing 'unconventional' attire in church with his hood up covering his

head.   It also looks like a couple of those security members were strategically around him.

It also looks like the security member who shot him also had his eyes focused on the perp

before the incident started.

 

I ain't trying to conclude anything.  Just trying to understand how this may have been prevented

or altered with a better outcome.

 

As a member of our church security (and armed), we try to be alert to certain things and viewing

this video might help us learn a better concept in our security measures.

 

It is sad that a daughter had to see her dad after he was shot so close with a SG.

 

..........Widder

 

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

It appeared from the video that multiple of the congregation came to their feet with a double handful of fight stopper.

One, and only one,  defensive shot was fired:  this stopped the threat.

From this I conclude that all involved exercised proper fire discipline.

In other words, those nay-sayers who eschew a congregation full of concealed sidearms would have us believe that everyone would start shooting at anyone with a gun.

We see here in real life, the exact opposite is true.

I am in agreement with the previous comment that a fifteen yard head shot, under stress, is most admirable.

Something tells me this real life example will be introduced into training scenarios.

[Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438]

 

We have a Armed crew of guys at our Church .

Everyone of them have head sets to talk to each other. 

When the Service starts the doors are locked with the armed guards walking the halls. 

Then there are several of us within the congregation who are armed setting in different sections in the sanctuary. 

It's sad that we have to do this .

But a Armed Society is a Polite Society. 

I will be suprised if this even makes the National News .

Rooster 

 

Surprise!

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/texas-church-shooting-leaves-two-dead-one-wounded-11577648142?mod=trending_now_pos5

 

https://abcnews.go.com/US/injuries-reported-shooting-texas-church/story?id=67969564&cid=clicksource_4380645_null_hero_hed

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/man-shoots-and-kills-2-inside-a-texas-church-before-parishioners-fatally-shoot-him/ar-BBYrq9K

 

LL

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

It always kinda chaps me when they include the bad guy in the body count. $%% media.

JHC

[Rye Miles #13621]

Thanks to Mr. Wilson, a TRUE Hero!!

[Capt. R. Hugh Kidnme]

It's funny, and idiotic, how the news still refer to the shooter in this incident as a "suspect". 

 

 Let's see;  they're on camera, they have a drawn weapon on camera, they shoot people with the weapon on camera, and get shot by parishioners, once again, on camera.

 

 SO, what are they suspected of doing? A different crime, in another church, in another town? 

 

It's pretty obvious they are an assailant, a perpetrator and a criminal. When will the news start reporting news with accurate language?

 

And, with the happy ending - DEAD CRIMINAL.

 

 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

He could have been a Marine. I don't recall an excuse to not shoot because the odds are against you. Semper Fidelis!

[Muleshoe Bill SASS #67022]

Mr. Wilson is a retired FBI agent based on what I have read, as well as an instructor at his business.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Watched the video, and there's a good bit to learn from the situation.

 

Main one to me is -- if you're going to carry a concealed weapon, don't bury your gun under two layers of clothing (sports jacket and untucked shirt), then try to get to it fast in a deadly encounter. I think the first church goer shot would have been better served to have just charged the guy than to stand on the 'X' and dig around for his gun.

 

But that being said, I completely acknowledge that only a few of us know how we would behave in that situation, and his heroism for trying to do what he could is humbling.

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Something else:

 

After the bad guy was down, it seemed that everyone in the church who had a gun had it out, heading towards that side of the church.

 

I didn't notice anyone checking to see if there was another shooter waiting for the church defenders to concentrate.

[G W Wade]

News this morning said he (shooter) had been fed at the church a couple of times prior to the shooting. Reported he was angry because he wanted CASH.    Shows how radical freeloaders are getting.   Prayers for the responders and people in attendance. None for him     GW

[Widder, SASS #59054]

 

Something else:

 

After the bad guy was down, it seemed that everyone in the church who had a gun had it out, heading towards that side of the church.

 

I didn't notice anyone checking to see if there was another shooter waiting for the church defenders to concentrate.

 

 

News this morning said he (shooter) had been fed at the church a couple of times prior to the shooting. Reported he was angry because he wanted CASH.    Shows how radical freeloaders are getting.   Prayers for the responders and people in attendance. None for him     GW

 

#1:   Ozark:  I noticed that also and thought...'hope there's not another bad guy in there'.

 

#2:  GW:   indeed, sad but true.    If he needed cash, he should have sold his SG to somebody.

Instead of going to the local drug store or convenient store, he may have thought the church was a 

"softer target".

 

..........Widder

 

[LawMan Mark, SASS #57095L]

 

Something else:

 

After the bad guy was down, it seemed that everyone in the church who had a gun had it out, heading towards that side of the church.

 

I didn't notice anyone checking to see if there was another shooter waiting for the church defenders to concentrate.

My active shooter training taught me to immediately seek hard cover after neutralizing the shooter.  At bare minimum, a hard cover wall to back up against within sight of the downed badguy.  This to watch for another shooter, and to keep from being shot by nervous responding cops.  

[Dantankerous]

 

 

 

 ...If he needed cash, he should have sold his SG to somebody.

Instead of going to the local drug store or convenient store, he may have thought the church was a 

"softer target".

 

..........Widder

 

 

Probably thought the collection plate would be an easy score.

 

 

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

 

News this morning said he (shooter) had been fed at the church a couple of times prior to the shooting. Reported he was angry because he wanted CASH.    Shows how radical freeloaders are getting.   Prayers for the responders and people in attendance. None for him     GW

While I understand your sentiment completely, we should pray for him as well. That's what Jesus would want us to do.

JHC

[Sedalia Dave]

One thing you cannot tell in the video is who the shotgun was pointed or who the shooter was looking at before the parishioner drew his weapon. It is very possible that his actions may have saved  the shooters intended target. No one will ever be able to tell from the current video.

 

Also the news media is scouring the internet for info on Mr. Wilson. Most of what has been published by the MSM is out of date or flat out wrong.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

 

Something else:

 

After the bad guy was down, it seemed that everyone in the church who had a gun had it out, heading towards that side of the church.

 

I didn't notice anyone checking to see if there was another shooter waiting for the church defenders to concentrate.

I wondered that myself.  Thanks.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

 

While I understand your sentiment completely, we should pray for him as well. That's what Jesus would want us to do.

JHC

He "needed" cash but could afford a gun?  Bet the antis don't have that on their minds.

[Capt. James H. Callahan]

It's always easy to second guess. With the exception of that hero that made the head shot in seconds, I expect most of these folks were average Joes going to worship and not REALLY prepared for such an attack. An experienced LEO or combat vet might think to watch for other shooters, most of us would have a brainful already I expect. That guy made one heck of a shot. I'd do good to make head shots on a paper target at that range, let alone when some maniac busts in shooting up communion when I'm at church. Our little church is about to have a "men's meeting" esp for those of us who carry to be better prepared for such an event. My Glock was digging into my side under my shirt last Sunday, came home and heard of this. I may go from a 9 to a .45 at church. Less chance of penetrating a wall and hitting a kid in Sunday school.

JHC

[Subdeacon Joe]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/12/31/texas-church-shooting-church-gave-killer-food-watching-him/2782276001/

 

Keith Thomas Kinnunen, 43, slipped into the Sunday service at the West Freeway Church of Christ in White Settlement wearing a long black wig, a fake beard and a bulky jacket.

“We’ve helped him on several occasions with food,” minister Britt Farmer told The Christian Chronicle. “He gets mad when we won’t give him cash. He’s been here on multiple occasions.”

During Communion, Kinnunen pulled out a modified, 12-gauge shotgun with a pistol grip and started shooting. Killed were Deacon Anton “Tony” Wallace, 64, who was holding a silver Communion tray, and Richard White, 67, who yelled “Drop it!” as he reached for his own pistol.

Parishioner Jack Wilson, a firearms instructor who heads the church's security team, then killed Kinnunen with one shot.

Church elder John Robertson, who mans the church’s video room, told the Chronicle that Kinnunen was being watched from the moment he entered the church.

"This was (a case of) ‘maybe it’s nothing, but maybe it’s worth looking into,’” Robertson said.  “We had put him on isolation on one of the cameras back here so we could see that he was behaving."
When Kinnunen got up for Communion, "We said, 'We need to make an intervention,’” Robertson said. But it was too late – Kinnunen brandished his weapon and opened fire. Farmer said he never recognized Kinnunen until he was killed.

Kinnunen's ex-wife told nbcdfw.com that Kunninen had a bad drug habit and lost touch with reality. 

 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Well surprise surprise surprise...

 

CNN has just posted their Op-Ed piece on the subject, and sure enough they criticize the very notion of good guys with guns. As usual they talk as if this would all go away and good guys with guns wouldn't be necessary if nobody had guns. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/opinions/white-settlement-texas-church-shooting-moore/index.html

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I have a serious question, based on a conversation with a friend yesterday.

 

Based on the info above, where Richard White (church member who drew his pistol) and said..... "Drop It".

 

Would you think its advantageous to make verbal commands in these situations or just 

draw down and shoot the perp.

 

Is there some advantage to having a verbal contact with someone who has already produced

a lethal weapon?

Or would your advantage be to just take an appropriate action (reaction) without making

verbal commands?

 

It sure didn't look like the head of their security team was in a talking mood.   

 

..........Widder

 

 

[Subdeacon Joe]

 

I have a serious question, based on a conversation with a friend yesterday.

 

Based on the info above, where Richard White (church member who drew his pistol) and said..... "Drop It".

 

Would you think its advantageous to make verbal commands in these situations or just 

draw down and shoot the perp.

 

Is there some advantage to having a verbal contact with someone who has already produced

a lethal weapon?

Or would your advantage be to just take an appropriate action (reaction) without making

verbal commands?

 

It sure didn't look like the head of their security team was in a talking mood.   

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

Thugs will often stop when confronted.  If there is even a small chance to end it without (more) bloodshed, I would take it.  
Look at how often we see videos of LEOs shouting "Drop the weapon!" over and over while backing up tens of yards.  Yes, I know that they have different, and often stupid, rules of engagement than other citizens have. But the idea is the same, stop an incident without (more) loss of life.

[Widder, SASS #59054]

 

Well surprise surprise surprise...

 

CNN has just posted their Op-Ed piece on the subject, and sure enough they criticize the very notion of good guys with guns. As usual they talk as if this would all go away and good guys with guns wouldn't be necessary if nobody had guns. 

 

https://www.cnn.com/2019/12/30/opinions/white-settlement-texas-church-shooting-moore/index.html

 

I wish CNN would ask me for my opinion while on camera.

Here is what I would tell them:

 

"As long as there are idiots like Eric Holder making decisions about gun ownership, the BAD GUYS

will always be able to get guns"

 

..........Widder

 

[Ozark Huckleberry]

Not disputing anyone, but watching the video, I can’t see where White had his gun even close to being in action. If he did call, “Drop it,” it likely did little more than draw the shooter’s attention to the fact that White was working toward getting his gun up. 
 

I can’t say what I might do. If he’s covering someone, shooting him might trigger his shot. But if he’s just pulling a gun out — no hesitation. He’s already crossed the line at that point. 

[Sixgun Sheridan]

Use common sense. If somebody has a gun pointed in your direction, and you yell "drop it" his response may simply be to pull the trigger. I wouldn't chance it unless the perp's weapon was pointed away from you or he had a contact weapon, giving you a second or two to react if his response was to escalate the situation.