Bisley Joe Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Sorry, but I found the original post with similar title but couldn't post a reply, and now I can't find it. So I still haven't shot my Navy 36s! Still, I want to plan ahead and figure some things out. Someone posted something about filling in the notch instead of using the rakes to prevent jams. Is there a verdict on this? Would filling in the little notch be better than installing one of those rake posts? Also, considering cutting the barrels down to about 4" and removing the loading lever. I'd then load on a separate contraption. Any one do this? I was also thinking of converting them to shoot .38 special, but honestly, between the price of the conversion cylinders, possibly needing to line the barrels, the work associated with it, and maybe complications, I can just get a pair of open tops or "conversions" already made in .38 from Uberti. These cap and balls are just nice as is. I currently have a pair of open tops in .45 with an 1866 lever action also in .45. Have really considered going with .38 to save on reloading (I'll reload using black powder) including the shotgun (12 gauge). But obviously that would mean buying a pair of revolvers in .38, as well as the rifle. Want to get my wife into it, so that would be a second set. Just trying to look at the options. I mean, maybe the .36 cap and ball will work great in competition and I can get a rifle in .38, then eventually get the revolvers. OK, I am rambling now! Sorry! Point is, are 36 Navy revolvers really viable for competition? I am thinking, again, that tuned up and with 4" barrels, and no loading levers, they would be extremely light, accurate, and fast. What do y'all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 No. It may help but there is a lot more to it. Yes. I shoot SNUBBIES with no load levers. I like a Tower of Power Conversion cylinders work just fine at CAS distance. However, a gated conversion will set you back some bucks. Starting with Uberti "Ready Made" conversions my be cheaper but will be lots of fun to set up. Yes. Navy .36 revolvers are viable for competition. This, only after a lot of Cap Gun specific tuning. It is a whole new ball game from cartridge guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted December 29, 2019 Author Share Posted December 29, 2019 No. It may help but there is a lot more to it. Yes. I shoot SNUBBIES with no load levers. I like a Tower of Power Conversion cylinders work just fine at CAS distance. However, a gated conversion will set you back some bucks. Starting with Uberti "Ready Made" conversions my be cheaper but will be lots of fun to set up. Yes. Navy .36 revolvers are viable for competition. This, only after a lot of Cap Gun specific tuning. It is a whole new ball game from cartridge guns. INTERESTING. So filling in the notch is not a good alternative to the rake pin? Is there a guide to the type of tuning and mods needed for the .36 cap and ball? My revolvers have really nice, light triggers, but the cylinders don't turn freely with the hammer resting at a notch. THey only turn freely with the hammers held back by the thumb, which seems like a bit of a hazard. I need to look into this. Some people were helping me here, but I can't find the posts since I've been so busy for the last few months. Anyway, I appreciate everyone's input. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Filling in the notches and changing to Slixx or Treso nipples will help, but still isn't as good as cap rakes/posts. PDFs in this thread will help guide you: I personally don't like light triggers on my handguns. Light hammer springs, yes; light triggers, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted December 29, 2019 Share Posted December 29, 2019 Duelist1954 YouTube channel has a lot of interesting videos on cap guns. Me? I'm the odd man out. My 51 Navys are stock. Stock springs and "cones". I have almost no misfires or hangups. I'm thinking the heavier hammer spring keeps the cap aginst the cone and does not let it suck back into the action. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329 Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 Filling the notch is good, but not as reliable as cap guards or cap rakes . All my competition guns have cap guards by Rowdy Yates, or cap rakes by Coffinmaker. Coffinmaker and I shoot a lot together and I love my 3-1/2 inch Pietta 44s and 3-1/2 inch ruger old armies. No loading lever on the guns— I have used a Powder Inc Cylinder Loader for many years. You can convert 36s, but the cases are so long, a regular bullet makes the cartridges too long. Most folks go with the short 38 case (38 Colt) so they can use regular-length bullets. 38 Open Tops shoot much like 36 cap guns & are much less hassle If you are set on converting cap guns, I suggest you convert 44s, cuz they readily accept 45s. I also suggest you use Cowboy Special brass, loaded with 160 grain bullets, round balls, or BigLube EPP-UG bullets. Easy on the gun & easy on the shooter —Dawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rooster Ron Wayne Posted December 30, 2019 Share Posted December 30, 2019 You can send them to Mike @goonsgunworks.com Mike has done several Cap Guns for me now . With a good tune job and Slick shot Nipples they can be just about as reliable as Cartridge guns. Rooster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted December 30, 2019 Author Share Posted December 30, 2019 Filling in the notches and changing to Slixx or Treso nipples will help, but still isn't as good as cap rakes/posts. PDFs in this thread will help guide you: I personally don't like light triggers on my handguns. Light hammer springs, yes; light triggers, no. Wow! Lot's of great information! Thank you! I just have to see if that's something I can handle, or if I need to send them somewhere to get tuned like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Another fun way to make smoke is with the conversion cylinders (using 45CS short brass) and should I try to shoot again in the near future that is the way I will start out. I would never go with the gated conversions again as the guns I am most proud of are convertible between cartridge and C&B. One of my favorite pairs are Uberti '60s with Avenging Angel barls (rammers removed) and the Navy size birdshead grips installed. The guns are really getting old and were very well broken in by the one an only P Dawg afore I got them. The only way to describe shooting this pair of guns is "slick as handling warm butter". Putting interchangeable style conversion .44 cylinders on them by Taylors is their next transition plan iffen I do get back into shooting! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 12/29/2019 at 6:34 PM, Rooster Ron Wayne said: You can send them to Mike @goonsgunworks.com Mike has done several Cap Guns for me now . With a good tune job and Slick shot Nipples they can be just about as reliable as Cartridge guns. Rooster Emailed Mike but it got kicked back. Any chance you wrote it wrong? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted January 6, 2020 Author Share Posted January 6, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 4:36 PM, Slowhand Bob, 24229 said: Another fun way to make smoke is with the conversion cylinders (using 45CS short brass) and should I try to shoot again in the near future that is the way I will start out. I would never go with the gated conversions again as the guns I am most proud of are convertible between cartridge and C&B. One of my favorite pairs are Uberti '60s with Avenging Angel barls (rammers removed) and the Navy size birdshead grips installed. The guns are really getting old and were very well broken in by the one an only P Dawg afore I got them. The only way to describe shooting this pair of guns is "slick as handling warm butter". Putting interchangeable style conversion .44 cylinders on them by Taylors is their next transition plan iffen I do get back into shooting! You think the conversion cylinders are worth it with the price? I have 36 calibers, so I'd go with .38. But I hear some say I'd have to either line the barrels (more expense) or shoot hollow based bullets (pia). Just seems like buying them already in .38 spl is a less expensive, more reliable, and easier way to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 goonsgunworks@gmail.com Try this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Dragoon Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 Bisley Joe, PM sent. Thanks Rooster!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pee Wee #15785 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 I have 4 stock 2nd gen 1851 Colts with after market nipples, 4 1851 Uberti that are stock except for the nipples all used as match guns. No cap guards or cap rakes. I have timed all of them. You need the strong hammer spring but not as strong as the current production guns use. Learn to to do the gun slinger pose when cocking the hammer so the spent cap falls on the ground. Non of the guns has ever had a cap tie up the hammer where a live cap did not go off when the hammer dropped. I have had bad Arther from the mid 80's so went from Old armies, 1860's and LaMatts to 1851 Navies to keep shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 2 hours ago, Pee Wee #15785 said: You need the strong hammer spring My experience also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 So ...... Just zactly "what" is this "Gunslinger Pose" that prevents cap jams?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 39 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: So ...... Just zactly "what" is this "Gunfighter Pose" that prevents cap jams?? You know... hold the guns upside down, trigger with the pinkie! Caps are sure to fall to the ground!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abilene, SASS # 27489 Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 17 hours ago, Bisley Joe said: You think the conversion cylinders are worth it with the price? I have 36 calibers, so I'd go with .38. But I hear some say I'd have to either line the barrels (more expense) or shoot hollow based bullets (pia). Just seems like buying them already in .38 spl is a less expensive, more reliable, and easier way to go. Howdy Joe, You have various options with the .36 conversions. I have a number of Cimarron .38 conversions and love them, and not owning a Navy percussion gun, I had no intention of converting one. But I ran across a deal and bought a '61 Uberti already converted with a gated Kirst and ejector, so I bought it. I tried some stubby 105 gr bullets in .38 Spcl cases which fit the cylinder and hit the targets, but the recoil was so light I didn't like it. So I started shooting the same 125gr bullet in .38 Spcl that I shoot in my other pistols and '73 carbine. I just had to seat them slightly deeper in the case so that they would fit in the Kirst cylinder. They still shoot fine in the other cartridge guns. The bore is not lined on this '61. I have shot it in 5 matches so far, with zero misses. The point is that for CAS use with fairly close targets, you do not HAVE to line the barrel and shoot special ammo. YMMV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 PLUS ONE too Abilene. My experience as well with Conversion cylinders in .36 Guns. I have two different sets of '51 Navy guns in which I shot R & D conversion cylinders. I DO NOT use "special" bullets. None of my .36s have lined barrels and I shoot 105Gr and 125Gr Truncated Cone bullets. Same same results. For playing CAS they are plenty accurate. I also shoot a pair of Uberti R/M '51 Conversions in 38. Can't really tell the difference at the targets. I really like that '61 too. PLUS ONE too Griff. How could I have forgotten?? Oh Magosh. The inverted gunslinger pose. May also need to practice the "One Arm Handstand' as well?? I guess we should all ignore Uberti "Short Arbor" problems as well. Amazing what one can learn here onna Wire. Zimplie Amazdalated I are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
July Smith Posted January 6, 2020 Share Posted January 6, 2020 17 hours ago, Pee Wee #15785 said: I have 4 stock 2nd gen 1851 Colts with after market nipples, 4 1851 Uberti that are stock except for the nipples all used as match guns. No cap guards or cap rakes. I have timed all of them. You need the strong hammer spring but not as strong as the current production guns use. Learn to to do the gun slinger pose when cocking the hammer so the spent cap falls on the ground. Non of the guns has ever had a cap tie up the hammer where a live cap did not go off when the hammer dropped. I have had bad Arther from the mid 80's so went from Old armies, 1860's and LaMatts to 1851 Navies to keep shooting. Comments like this always amaze me. I guess proof that YMMV when it comes to cap guns and black powder. I have owned 20+ cap guns (mix of ASM, Pietta and Uberti) since I was 16. None of those guns were even close to being ready for SASS competition. My advice to the OP, if you can wait send your existing guns to Mike Brackett (already mentioned and posted above) or buy a pair of Long Hunters guns if you want to start shooting Frontiersman right away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
45 Dragoon Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Thanks July !!! Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted January 7, 2020 Share Posted January 7, 2020 Maybe shoot "gangsta' style" with left side up and right side down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 Interesting information. Still not sure which way to go, but am leaning towards leaving the cap and ball revolvers as is and just getting Uberti revolvers already in .38 I'll wait for more info and reply about getting them tuned. My thing is that I want them to be accurate. I know that plenty accurate for close range SASS is fine, but I want them to be accurate for farther distances. Again, thanks to all for the advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bisley Joe Posted January 7, 2020 Author Share Posted January 7, 2020 On 12/29/2019 at 6:34 PM, Rooster Ron Wayne said: You can send them to Mike @goonsgunworks.com Mike has done several Cap Guns for me now . With a good tune job and Slick shot Nipples they can be just about as reliable as Cartridge guns. Rooster I contacted Mike. The correct email is goonsgunworks@gmail.com but thank you for letting me know about this, 'cause I had no idea! I think the best way to go is to send the pistols to Mike (once I recover from the Christmas wallet black hole) and have him do the "Outlaw Mule" job on them. For less than a conversion cylinder, not to mention lining the barrel and maybe having to get the cylinder fitted, I can have the pistol tuned to be reliable and slick enough to compete with! I want firearms that are reliable and accurate, and don;t much like "good enough for". I want that lead going where I put the sights! Once again, thanks for the advice! Can't wait to eventually get back into this awesome sport!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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