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Shooting Bull

Reaching the next level of speed?

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I feel I've been stagnant for the past couple years.  I've reached a certain level of speed/skill and no matter how hard I try I can't do any better.   Today posts by Widder and Creeker caused me to have an epiphany, I ain't right in the head. (I'll let you all have fun with that one. :lol:)   They both said essentially the same thing, speed is a mind set.  This is where I need help.

 

A few years ago I was lucky enough to have a couple of sessions with the late great Goatneck Clem.  He sold me completely.  I'm 100% on board with the entire relaxation, visualization, Lanny Basham, Brian Enos school of thought.  My epiphany this morning is that this might be what's holding me back.  I can't truly let my mind go unless I totally understand a concept.  If I have any questions/doubts at all I can't stop thinking and let my mind get out of the way.

 

Here's where I'm stuck.  In order for me to go faster than I am now I have to consciously think about going faster.  If I don't think about it I fall into my normal rhythm and remain where I'm at.  But that's in direct contradiction to the relaxation/visualization techniques I know work.  Can somebody please help me resolve this conflict so that I can reach the next level of speed without thinking about it? 

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I feel I've been stagnant for the past couple years.  I've reached a certain level of speed/skill and no matter how hard I try I can't do any better.   Today posts by Widder and Creeker caused me to have an epiphany, I ain't right in the head. (I'll let you all have fun with that one. :lol:)   They both said essentially the same thing, speed is a mind set.  This is where I need help.

 

A few years ago I was lucky enough to have a couple of sessions with the late great Goatneck Clem.  He sold me completely.  I'm 100% on board with the entire relaxation, visualization, Lanny Basham, Brian Enos school of thought.  My epiphany this morning is that this might be what's holding me back.  I can't truly let my mind go unless I totally understand a concept.  If I have any questions/doubts at all I can't stop thinking and let my mind get out of the way.

 

Here's where I'm stuck.  In order for me to go faster than I am now I have to consciously think about going faster.  If I don't think about it I fall into my normal rhythm and remain where I'm at.  But that's in direct contradiction to the relaxation/visualization techniques I know work.  Can somebody please help me resolve this conflict so that I can reach the next level of speed without thinking about it? 

Regular rhythm is not your friend. If you're shooting a cadence it's not conducive to faster shooting. Once again, shooting speed isn't the only way to get faster on a stage, it's merely one piece of the pie. Self confidence, ability to change, stage management, preparation at the loading table, etc. Miss out on one thing and there goes your plan. One's physiology can be off from one day to the next, I shot like crap at the last monthly match I attended, floundered around like a new shooter. My head wasn't into it, had other stuff on my mind. The ability to focus is paramount in the shooting sports. Some folks try too hard and it screws them up. Look a squirrel.

 

Did I ever mention how much I dislike stand and deliver stages?

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Regular rhythm is not your friend. If you're shooting a cadence it's not conducive to faster shooting. Once again, shooting speed isn't the only way to get faster on a stage, it's merely one piece of the pie. Self confidence, ability to change, stage management, preparation at the loading table, etc. Miss out on one thing and there goes your plan. One's physiology can be off from one day to the next, I shot like crap at the last monthly match I attended, floundered around like a new shooter. My head wasn't into it, had other stuff on my mind. The ability to focus is paramount in the shooting sports. Some folks try too hard and it screws them up. Look a squirrel.

 

Did I ever mention how much I dislike stand and deliver stages?

 

Great...I was reading this aloud, now I have to go find my dog.

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Here is a thought that might help, couldn't hurt.  I hesitate to offer an idea that I have not tried myself, but I figure we are brainstorming here, right?  Shooting time might be improved by working on fine motor skills in general, not just practicing shooting.  The more one's finger/hand/eye coordination improves, it stands to reason that shooting skills would benefit.

 

I Googled "fine motor skills adult" and got lots of suggestions, mostly occupational therapy stuff, showing exercises for improving fine motor skills.  Pick a few that look like fun and use your shot timer to measure your improvement.  Like I said before, I don't see how cross training could hurt anything.

Edited by J-BAR #18287

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OK Bull - how about some numbers and where in the match list your name is recorded.  Easier to discuss your miseries

Can somebody please help me resolve this conflict so that I can reach the next level of speed without thinking about it?  

 

Edited by John Boy

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How are your transitions? 

 A good rifle shooter is in the sub 3 second.  A great one in the sub 2

    Good pistols sub 4 

     Great sub 3

A good shotgun is sub 1.5 sec per shot

 Great sub 1

 

 Fumble a holster or pickup can easily cost more time than the total of shooting the gun. 

   One step out of position or having to turn back is seconds. 

 

   The only thing I keep cadence on is my pistols.  That's to help spotters who can't keep up. 

  After that it's purely mental.  If you tell yourself you can't keep up you won't.  It took me years to learn that.  Now depending on the match it's gas pedal through the floor or 80 percent.  The more you push all out the faster your 80 percent comes.   Pushing all out will rarely be smooth.  80 percent will.   All of my sub 12 second stages were with 80 percent speed.  

  Currently im working on rifle.   However I was able to watch a few amazing rifles shooters down south this summer and analyze what I was doing wrong.   Now I learned how to find a new gear.  And it was mostly mental.  I was telling myself I just couldn't run one under 2.5.  With a few minor position changes and changes to my rifles im getting there. 

 

  The end result will be you have to tell yourself you can do it, and truly believe it. Then get out of your own way and do it. 

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Now where did I put that magic wand?

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If u want to be half a$$ed i can help you. 

 

 

Edited by Hells Comin
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If u want to be half a$$ed i can help you. 

 

 

 

Ive been told numerous times I’m a total ass. Would being half assed be better or worse? :wacko:

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There are many places to decrease time by eliminating extra movement.  However, if you are talking specifically about how fast you are aligning sights and pulling the trigger, then you may want to consider over speed training. Many athletes use over speed training to increase their speed in their sport.  Same thing in our sport.  You have to practice pulling the trigger and working the action faster than you ever would in competition.  Add speed training to your regimen.  Then bring accuracy back into practice.

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:lol:. Unfortunately,   my next level of speed is slower than before.  Don't bother me much. I just shoot the guns I want to shoot. 

 

Man's got to know his limitations.  

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Have you watched recent video of you shooting in a match?  You may identify areas that you could improve that you didn't even think of.  After watching recent footage on myself, I realized that my rifle was killing my times.  I'm working on fixing that flaw, but I wouldn't have pin-pointed that problem if I hadn't watched myself. 

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Really, if you want to shoot fast, you have to practice shooting fast.  It's conscious to start with.  But you do have to force yourself outside your comfort zone.  Come visit on a weekend.  We can work on it.

 

Doc

 

Edited by Doc Shapiro
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Think Speedy Gondolas on Xanax.

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Really, if you want to shoot fast, you have to practice shooting fast.  It's conscious to start with.  But you do have to force yourself outside your comfort zone.  Come visit on a weekend.  We can work on it.

 

Doc

 

 

Now THAT’S an offer I’d love to accept.

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720HP MoPar with a 6 speed Trany should help.  You'll need some fat tires to get that power to the ground though.

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Now THAT’S an offer I’d love to accept.

 

It's only a 7 or 8 hour drive from Vegas to Sacramento :-p

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If u want to be half a$$ed i can help you. 

 

 

Take him up on it!

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A few years ago I was lucky enough to have a couple of sessions with the late great Goatneck Clem.  He sold me completely.  I'm 100% on board with the entire relaxation, visualization, Lanny Basham, Brian Enos school of thought.  My epiphany this morning is that this might be what's holding me back.  I can't truly let my mind go unless I totally understand a concept.  If I have any questions/doubts at all I can't stop thinking and let my mind get out of the way.

To Shooting Bulls credit; he ain't near as far off as he makes it seem.

 

But, I do agree with his above paragraph. 

Bulls background in weight training mean his focus and discipline is never an issue.  So he would gravitate strongly to a positive mantra that discipline and focus will reach your goals.

But because of that same focus and aversion to failure; Bull has become unwilling to trainwreck. 

When you watch Bull shoot; you can see him analyzing every step of the way.  Every transition, transfer and step is being processed and he can be a clinic for exactly what you are supposed to do.

 

You can have a fantastic dance instructor; one that can tell you exactly where and how to place your feet, your hands - eventually you have to do it without their voice in your head and without counting, 1,2,3  1,2,3.

And eventually to be great; you have to go beyond the instruction and "feel" it.

 

You have to let go and risk stepping on some toes.

Trust yourself Bull.  You're very good.

 

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:ph34r:  As Bull well knows, he can shoot stages faster than I do.  However, SPEED being relative, I was able to begin to do better as I recovered from some surgery by being WILLING TO MISS.  What Doc said (and wrote in his book)  I took to heart.  Creeker covers the same idea.  For a while, I'd have monthly club matches that were 'disgraceful', but it was a pathway to increased efficiency and speed.

All that said, I'm not speedy by any means, I'm just faster than I was.....

There is still much for me to improve upon.

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As Chevy Chase would say -- "Be the bullet..."      :D

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Three things:

1 stop telling yourself that you can’t. 

2 stop focusing on the numbers (your times)

3 stop counting your shots. 

 

If you do do these three things, I guarantee you will get faster. 

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Three things:

1 stop telling yourself that you can’t. 

2 stop focusing on the numbers (your times)

3 stop counting your shots

 

If you do do these three things, I guarantee you will get faster. 

 

How in the world do you do that without getting a P on every stage?

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If you fear the p or mis you are holding yourself back less p or m will come in time check your aimo at the loading table to clear your mind  [ZEN] try to hard to be perfect and you will fail 

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When my wife shot clean all the time. But we could see she had another gear she would not go to becasue

she was afraid of a miss.

Nuttin Graceful told her. Give me 3-4 monthly matches (we was shooting every weekend) and just don't worry

about your misses. Give me speed. Then after those you can go back and hit all your targets.

She did it. Got 4-5 misses a match. BUT. After that. She shaved about 5 seconds off her times and could still shoot

clean.

So now. She will go ahead and push misses at monthly's. Knowing learning speed will help her at big matches when she

needs to maybe hold things in check just a little more.

 

I still have not learned the holding it in check. But real good and running it all the way off the track.

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How in the world do you do that without getting a P on every stage?

The same way you read this sentence without sounding out the letters. 

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Here in southern Arizona there are a number of world class shooters. When they give training sessions they mostly work on transitions from gun to gun and shooting stations.

 

The least amount of body movement and steps between is what they all work on diligently.

 

Drawing the weapon to the side of movement is key. No wasted movement. When you arrive at your shooting location you should be shooting. Not trying for angles. That should have been worked out in your mind before you got there.

 

Watch the videos of some of the fastest shooters in SASS. There transitions are flawless. There gun handling is superb. 

 

Smooth transitions are everything. Then it is practice, practice, practice.

 

JMHO after many years of watching the best.

Edited by Castalia,SASS#18915

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MERRY CHRISTMAS BULL.

 

Tryin to type out and explain about 'Speed' is a hard thing to do.   Some of the Pards above have

pointed out some important things for you to consider.

 

Even if we were sitting across the lunch table, I might say some things that seem contradicting,

But for me, I just had a gut feeling about how fast I was capable of shooting certain firearms, and

then I practiced towards reaching those goals.

 

Call it mental or call it some sort of 'in the gut' feeling, but I knew early on that I could run

both pistols under 2 seconds.    

I also had that feeling about achieving a certain SG speed, using MY preferred technique.

 

Within that 'belief',  I practiced to prove to myself it could be done.

I wore a calus on my left thumb dry firing my pistols.  Then my practice would also tear it off,

caused a sore, and started a new calus .

 

With the SG, it was a technique that worked for ME.   I had a few top 97 shooters tell me that

'over the top with 4' was the best and fastest technique and that grabbing 2 at a time was not

the most efficient or fastest.   I didn't allow the preferred techniques of others dictate nor restrict 

my PRACTICE efforts.   Even with a SxS or '87, some techniques will work better for YOU than

other techniques used by others.   

 

So here is my lunch table thoughts:   Inside your gut, you have a 'feeling' of your capabilities.

Inside your gut, you also have a feeling of what you need to do in order to reach those capabilities.

Here is my question to you:  Do you have the guts to work towards those capabilities?

 

HINT:  ya can't be leary or fearful of having a shortfall of your goals.   Ya gotta go after those goals

nearly EVERY DAY, like taking a daily vitamin pill.   One day,  you'll have a 'WOW' moment.

Then you'll have a few disappointing moments.  Then you will have a couple more 'WOW' moments.

Those 'WOW' moments will give you a thirst for the next 'WOW' moment.   

Then it happens..... YOU will be sitting at the lunch table when another shooter walks over

to sit down and sez..... "Hey Bull.  Ya got any good advice on how I can get faster"?

 

Good luck in all your efforts.  

 

..........Widder

 

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There is a lot of "Mental" in any endeavor.  At my age there is lots and lots of "Mental."  Speed is relative.  Measured by how long it takes to get moving in the morning.  Or how hard to get up off the sofa.  Relative you see.

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Confidence.

 

After all the above  one needs to practice routine. From the time you go to the cart for guns and ammo, do the same thing every time. Pick your long guns the same way. Go to the loading table and place you guns the same way on the table. Load your guns the same way. Create a routine that goes auto pilot. You will do this and free up the conscious mind to think about the stage  while you feed the subconscious.. When you get to the end of the loading table, lose yourself in the stage. Don't have conversations. Concentrate. Focus. Go to the line and focus. You can laugh and joke later.   

When the beep happens you will have the movements of the stage buried in the subconscious and all the practice will allow the subconscious to take over and go on auto pilot. 

I find shooters think about clean stages, equipment malfunctions, looking bad, and the other things that erode confidence and disrupts focus. 

 

Focus.

 

Some call it "getting in the center or in the bubble". If you can reach the third stage of competition level, you hear no one, you see no one: oblivious to outside interference.  Make the TO stand behind you. And it begins when you nod your head. 

 

 

Edited by Red Cent
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"Watch the videos of some of the fastest shooters in SASS."

 

This, and have someone video you shooting a similar stage. Watch the video of yourself dispassionately and you'll see the areas that are costing you the most time. Work on one improvement at a time. I find I do better going for steady improvement rather than a drastic change all at once. 

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I have many of the same concerns as SB.  I a live around two very fast shooters.  When I ask them for help they tell me to move my a-- and shoot faster:lol:!  In many ways what they are saying is true.  Over the last several years I have watched as some shooters have left me behind.  I know they are working harder than I am and if I expect to improve I have to put in the work.  I am trying to lose weight, get fit and get out to our shooting pits to live fire more often. One of the areas I am working at is speed, shot to shot.  So one day a week I stand and deliver on one target with the timer as fast as I can go and staying as relaxed as I can.  That is my sole objective for that practice.  I know I can shoot faster, I just have to give myself permission.   I am still dry firing to work more on transitions.   As the speed improves the eyes will learn to stay up with it, sometimes at least.  I would not worry about going over the edge, especially at monthly matches.   If we don't ever move the edge we get stuck where we are.   

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720HP MoPar with a 6 speed Trany should help.  You'll need some fat tires to get that power to the ground though.

That’s a ‘stand and deliver’ car. If the ‘stage’ calls for ‘movement’ (turns) this would be better.

C3FFF837-30C5-482F-B9C4-84675CF3E2D1.jpeg

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