WTC

[irish ike, SASS #43615]

OK, I've got it. Thanks for the clarification.

[Tequila Shooter]

I had no idea this WTC would draw so much attention and debate.  I enjoy reading the answers it shows that everyone is thinking about it and are willing to talk and hopefully agree.  If this helps anyone at a future match then it's good knowledge.   A special thanks to @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L I've seen you write on this and other posts and you always quote the rulebook and make it easier to understand.

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

 

I had no idea this WTC would draw so much attention and debate.  I enjoy reading the answers it shows that everyone is thinking about it and are willing to talk and hopefully agree.  If this helps anyone at a future match then it's good knowledge.   A special thanks to @PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L I've seen you write on this and other posts and you always quote the rulebook and make it easier to understand.

 

That's why he gets the big bucks

[Widder, SASS #59054]

PWB is the 'Alexa' of SASS..... 

 

When the code letters of 'WTC' appear on the Wire, 'PWB' automatically picks up

 

He has an unlimited amount of blue ink in his computer.  

 

He deserves a Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from all of us, regardless of his big SASS

bonuses..... 

 

Merry Christmas PWB..... and all the Wire Pards.

 

..........Widder  (Walkin in a Widder Wonderland)

 

 

 

[Sarge]

This is a great thread.  We had this very discussion before one of our club matches.  

[Ramblin Gambler]

Just to be clear, the stage instructions that said to holster between pistol shots didn't even give the gunfighter the option to holster?  The prohibition against holstering with intent to shoot more later overrides stage instructions?  

[Marshal Chance Morgun]

 

PWB is the 'Alexa' of SASS..... 

........Widder  

 

 

 

Or since we have Jedi GF's, would that make him Yoda?

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

 

Just to be clear, the stage instructions that said to holster between pistol shots didn't even give the gunfighter the option to holster?  The prohibition against holstering with intent to shoot more later overrides stage instructions?  

The GF can never holster with the intent to shoot later. They will either shoot DD or stage on prop. Stage writers need to get away from first pistol/second pistol  or holster  or make safe and start on the left in most instances. Stage Covenants cover alota that stuff.  Allowing options gives every category and right or left handers to shoot the stage in a way that benefits them. Here's  couple of simple ones. Good Luck

 

Stage 1                            10 Rifle             10 Pistol                   4+ Shotgun
Start Table 1 or 2 box in hands       Pistols Holstered       Rifle & Shotgun Table 2
When ready say the line “Merry Christmas” At the beep, with rifle triple tap the center target, then
single tap each end, twice (R2,R2,R2-R1-R3—R2,R2,R2-R1-R3). With shotgun shoot the four KDs.
With pistols repeat the rifle instructions (P2,P2,P2-P1-P3—P2,P2,P2-P1-P3).

 

Note; Example may not indicate each available option. Sweeps may start on either end, sweeps may

go in either direction. Shotguns any order unless specified. Stage Covenants apply. Stages cannot end with rifle.

 

Stage 1                          10 Rifle                          10 Pistol                         4+ Shotgun
Start table 1 or 2 dynamite in hands          Rifle & Shotgun on table 2         Pistols Holstered
When ready say the line “Fire in the Hole” At the beep, with shotgun shoot the four KDs. With rifle
shoot two Indiana sweeps (2,2-1-2-3)(2,2-1-2-3). From table 1, with pistols shoot two Indiana
sweeps.

 

Note; sweeps may go in either direction or start on either end. Stage 1 & 3 any order, cannot end with rifle.

Examples may not include all available options. Stage Covenants apply.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

 

Or since we have Jedi GF's, would that make him Yoda?

 

This is in my "signature" (stealth mode activated)

☆☆ Jedi Gunfighter #172 ☆☆

☆☆ Jedi Gunfighter of the Year 2014 ☆☆

 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

Let this be a lesson to stage writers; your choice of wording DOES have an affect on shooters of different categories.

If you specifically want shooters to all shoot the stage the same way (why?) then write it the way you want it shot, if you will let the shooters have some leeway in how they shoot the stage (better for everyone) then be more neutral in your wording being careful to keep the intent of the stage design the same. I regularly use (at the advice of a much more experienced stage writer than myself) "With pistols as needed..."; this gives shooters some wiggle room in how they individually attack the stage and keeps me out of hot water with my gunfighters. Oh, and avoids 3, 4, 5 page WTCs. Lol

You're welcome PWB; Have a Merry Christmas!

[Hendo]

I'm new and still learnin, so I tend to like these WTC threads. It helps my old and ornery brain connect with what I read in the SHB.

[Tequila Shooter]

 

I'm new and still learnin, so I tend to like these WTC threads. It helps my old and ornery brain connect with what I read in the SHB.

 

Same here!

[Ramblin Gambler]

 

The GF can never holster with the intent to shoot later. They will either shoot DD or stage on prop.

 

Ok I'll have to ponder on that. I thought the "shall not holster" commandment seemed like something that can be overridden by the writeup the same way the rule about holstering pistols at the end of the string can be (or any number of other stage conventions). 

 

 

[Major BS Walker Regulator]

I still have to deal with stage writers that write ( Draw Pistols According to Category)for each pistol sequence per stage.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

 

Ok I'll have to ponder on that. I thought the "shall not holster" commandment seemed like something that can be overridden by the writeup the same way the rule about holstering pistols at the end of the string can be (or any number of other stage conventions). 

 

That is not a "stage convention".
It is a CATEGORY requirement/restriction subject to the progressive P/SDQ/MDQ penalty for "shooting out of category" if violated.

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Here’s hoping that rule goes away someday. 

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Gunfighter is a hoot. Warthog loads of holy blacl make it even more awesome. 

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

 

Here’s hoping that rule goes away someday. 

Hmm Why?? I don't want some stage writer requiring us to do something goofy that causes us to shoot out of category, any more than I would write a stage that says everyone has to shoot left handed. You can tell by this thread that there are still some out there that don't really understand and often think we earned a P. We like GF as it is Good Luck

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

 

Hmm Why?? I don't want some stage writer requiring us to do something goofy that causes us to shoot out of category, any more than I would write a stage that says everyone has to shoot left handed. You can tell by this thread that there are still some out there that don't really understand and often think we earned a P. We like GF as it is Good Luck

No not that. I meant the holstering  rule that applies only to gunfighter. I have no doubt it’ll go away eventually as the Older folks age out and the younger folks that have always shot shooting sports where holstering  is allowed end up in our game. 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

 

No not that. I meant the holstering  rule that applies only to gunfighter. I have no doubt it’ll go away eventually as the Older folks age out and the younger folks that have always shot shooting sports where holstering  is allowed end up in our game. 

 

Gunfighter-style shooters are handling two loaded revolvers at the same time.

The "no holstering between shooting strings" rule was established during the TG meeting at which the category was approved.

The primary concern was being able to observe the condition of both loaded revolvers as they were being reholstered.

 

How many other shooting sports allow the use of two handguns at once?

[Ramblin Gambler]

I know at least one shooting range gets real uptight about it. I didn't even think about it and was blazing away with a couple of semi autos one day when the range master came in all out of breath flailing his arms after probably my 3rd reload. He threatened to ban me from the range. He wasn't too impressed with how i use 2 guns all the time in competitions, but then again I'm not banned so maybe he was a little impressed. He was not interested in seeing any proof of my claim though. Didn't even want to look at the target. 

 

So my guess is none of them allow it other than sass and maybe ncows?

 

[M.T Chambers, SASS#76185]

 

No not that. I meant the holstering  rule that applies only to gunfighter. I have no doubt it’ll go away eventually as the Older folks age out and the younger folks that have always shot shooting sports where holstering  is allowed end up in our game. 

 

Re-holstering a handgun that has not been shot "dry" is not allowed by any shooting category. You have to expend all five rounds before you can re-holster in any category or declare a malfunction and "ground" a gun with any unfired ammunition. I shoot 2-Gun & 3-Gun and the competitor must discard the handgun after shooting it, to re-holster gets a MDQ.

I don't see this rule evergoing away

[Mud Marine,SASS#54686 Life]

Gunfighter "special restrictions" are hold over remnants of the old Gun Control era. There was a great deal of suspicion concerning gunfighter.

 

It's long past time to obviate them. Unfortunately, few people, including CAS shooters are at all ambidextrous so it sadly but necessarily follows that most TGs don't understand nor care about Gunfighter.

 

Regarding shooting Gunfighter at non CAS ranges, I have yet to have had a problem. I shoot several different categories including NRA bullseye and shooting two guns at the same time is a NO NO. NRA bullseye emanated from military handgun training. It is obsolete for that purpose but is still one of the ultimate tests of skill and concentration similar to chess.

 

I truly enjoy Gunfighter with warthog loads of Holy Black. The loud boom, the massive gouts of flame and smoke are what keeps me competing in SASS. If I really wanted to go fast, I would shoot wimp loads of .32  smokeless. I shoot and enjoy what I like. Some favour the companionship, some attend for the costuming, some love the speed and a few are like me. I think that's why SASS is still in existence.

 

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!!!!

 

 

 

 

[evil dogooder]

 

 

Re-holstering a handgun that has not been shot "dry" is not allowed by any shooting category. You have to expend all five rounds before you can re-holster in any category or declare a malfunction and "ground" a gun with any unfired ammunition. 

 Could you please tell me where to find this rule?   Because the last time I read the rule books it wasn't there. 

[Snake River Clay SASS #34984]

 

 

Re-holstering a handgun that has not been shot "dry" is not allowed by any shooting category. You have to expend all five rounds before you can re-holster in any category or declare a malfunction and "ground" a gun with any unfired ammunition. I shoot 2-Gun & 3-Gun and the competitor must discard the handgun after shooting it, to re-holster gets a MDQ.

I don't see this rule evergoing away

Unfired rounds in a revolver are counted as misses as long as the hammer is down on an empty case.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

 

 

Re-holstering a handgun that has not been shot "dry" is not allowed by any shooting category. You have to expend all five rounds before you can re-holster in any category or declare a malfunction and "ground" a gun with any unfired ammunition. I shoot 2-Gun & 3-Gun and the competitor must discard the handgun after shooting it, to re-holster gets a MDQ.

I don't see this rule evergoing away

Nope, only applies to GF. Other categories can shoot one or more holster, other pistol the same the...….back and forth till all ten rounds are gone. Any unfired rounds will be only a miss provided the hammer is down on an empty. Good Luck 

[M.T Chambers, SASS#76185]

I defer and you gentlemen are correct in that it is not spelled out that way for any category except gunfighter. However with the rules written the way they are I would not expect, or hope, a stage writer would have any shooter intentionally re-holster a handgun with live rounds left in it.