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Rule Change


BootStrap Phil

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I don't see that pointing the gun down range under supervision and pulling the trigger as being stupid or even unsafe. However, I would rather see the action opened and the shooter directed to the ULT. Basic firearm safety had already been broken by the shooter when they arrived on stage with the hammer cocked. IMO it should not be allowed to slide without penalty. If no round under the cocked hammer... then a 10 sec safety, if a live round under the cocked hammer... then a SDQ. We must all guard against Complacency. We do the Loading table event many times over and over again, and some folks do become complacent. Again.... a true and real Loading table officer, one that actually does the job, can help the shooter to not become complacent. JMO

 

Snakebite

 

 

 

 

Been doing this for over 25 years and in the last 10 years I haven't had to many real loading table officer! most of them are watching the shooters or day dreaming and some not even sure what they are looking for?  If we even have a loading officer anymore? And I think you are correct when you say pulling the trigger to check for a loaded gun is STUPID! If your loading a cocked gun your not paying attention, and should leave and come back when your mind is on what you are doing!

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Because of my long life involvement with firearms AND my regular attendance at reasonably size Southern

Baptist Churches, I have had numerous request to help folks learn about firearms and in particular..... shooting

those firearms.

 

There have been numerous times when someone thought their firearm was empty and when I ask them to

show me, they would cock the hammer, pull the trigger and get a resounding 'Kaboom'.

There have been numerous times when some folks thought their Ruger 10-22 was empty, relaxed their

aiming poster, and pulled the trigger to show me it was empty.   YEP, another 'pop' would occur.

 

I agree with ya Smokestack.

 

I have an ole saying I remind folks on occasion:   "If it wrong and everybody is doing it, its still wrong.

But if its right, its still right even if nobody is doing it."

 

I would prefer not to acquire a nickname of 'Barney'.

 

..........Widder

 

Yep, I've seen that a bunch also. 

P.S. You're more like a mix between Gomer and the mayor than Barney.

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Absentmindedness and complacency kills! :angry:

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With all due respect, some ranges do not have back berms. All of them around here do.

 

That has been noted.

The actual verbiage in the SHB will read. "...pointed safely downrange..." 

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     Question. Is there a TG forum where TGs can have discussions on these and other matters so we regular shooters can view what is being discussed and see the TG's position on certain things?

 

The Territorial Governor Wire is a CLOSED forum.
Access is only available to TGs for posting or viewing.

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I find it interesting that when polled the national representatives for SASS (Territorial Governors), voted in about the same percentage as the individual members at the two clubs I (semi) regularly shoot at... except in reverse.  The number of comments from members that report not being polled is distressing.

 

I have long maintained that the two 10 second penalties are for 1 - a brain fart, inadvertent error, and 2 - a lapse in safety.  Forgetting the order targets are to be shot, and having a firearm in a potentially unsafe condition can have far different outcomes.  In the first you simply shoot (at) the targets in a sequence not in accordance with the stage instructions... no safety protocols are disturbed.  In the second, you've lapsed into the realm of being potentially an unsafe competitor.  The potentially unsafe condition SHOULD have a greater penalty than simply forgetting the target order, or...

 

Being negligent at the loading table falls into this potentially unsafe black hole.

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PaleWolf - thank you for letting us all know the results. Your patience and hard work are much appreciated.  You can’t satisfy everyone - especially those who haven’t voiced their concerns with folks who can actually make a difference. 
 

Again, thanks many times over. 

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The Territorial Governor Wire is a CLOSED forum.
Access is only available to TGs for posting or viewing.

 

 

 

NO

     Is there a way to vote to make the TG forum viewable or votes to be public? I can understand not wanting posts from non TGs scrambling up the threads(like this one) but it would be nice to be able to see where the various TGs stand and their views on different topics.

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     Is there a way to vote to make the TG forum viewable or votes to be public? I can understand not wanting posts from non TGs scrambling up the threads(like this one) but it would be nice to be able to see where the various TGs stand and their views on different topics.

Why don't you just read the minutes of the meeting/s when this was discussed??

http://www.dulzuradesperados.com/2017/03/notes-from-territorial-governors-meeting/

 

It is unfortunate that you have to find a copy on the side somewhere but would be a sufficent alert to allow you to discuss (in a timely manner) any of the topics with your TG. Print a copy from the link above and paste it to the back of your last Chronicle ... and then read it.

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     Is there a way to vote to make the TG forum viewable or votes to be public? I can understand not wanting posts from non TGs scrambling up the threads(like this one) but it would be nice to be able to see where the various TGs stand and their views on different topics.

The TGs should be voting the will of their individual clubs.

Their vote does not mean that they agree or disagree with any particular issue.

 

Personal note - All rifles that we use can be checked to see if they are loaded without firing rounds downrange and without causing the rifle to load a round. If empty it can be de-cocked under the supervision of the TO. If one is in the chamber, that round can be ejected and the gun rendered relatively safe for moving to the "table of shame" (Unloading table). 

 

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Why don't you just read the minutes of the meeting/s when this was discussed??

http://www.dulzuradesperados.com/2017/03/notes-from-territorial-governors-meeting/

 

It is unfortunate that you have to find a copy on the side somewhere but would be a sufficent alert to allow you to discuss (in a timely manner) any of the topics with your TG. Print a copy from the link above and paste it to the back of your last Chronicle ... and then read it.

 

The link to THIS PAGE is accessible from the SASS HANDBOOKS page (just below the RO Course Materials)...and has been up for quite a few years.

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...

Personal note - All rifles that we use can be checked to see if they are loaded without firing rounds downrange and without causing the rifle to load a round. If empty it can be de-cocked under the supervision of the TO. If one is in the chamber, that round can be ejected and the gun rendered relatively safe for moving to the "table of shame" (Unloading table). 

 

As mentioned numerous times during the past couple years' discussions, the method specified in the approved rule change was used for many years by many clubs before the automatic SDQ was codified in the SHB ten years ago.

 

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The link to THIS PAGE is accessible from the SASS HANDBOOKS page (just below the RO Course Materials)...and has been up for quite a few years.

Well .. thank you ... thats exactly what is needed.

It is a lot more complete than the "TG Bulletin Archive" page linked from the main SASS website (only goes up to 2010).

https://www.sassnet.com/TG-Archivet-001A.php

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Why don't you just read the minutes of the meeting/s when this was discussed??

http://www.dulzuradesperados.com/2017/03/notes-from-territorial-governors-meeting/

 

It is unfortunate that you have to find a copy on the side somewhere but would be a sufficent alert to allow you to discuss (in a timely manner) any of the topics with your TG. Print a copy from the link above and paste it to the back of your last Chronicle ... and then read it.

I did read that. I had to stop and laugh though at the part where the consensus of the people in attendance wanted the summits to be in person as not all TG's have internet access and doesn't respond to email. IT IS A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE INTERNET ACCESS TO BE A TG! 

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I did read that. I had to stop and laugh though at the part where the consensus of the people in attendance wanted the summits to be in person as not all TG's have internet access and doesn't respond to email. IT IS A REQUIREMENT TO HAVE INTERNET ACCESS TO BE A TG! 

Yeah .. I guess everybody will be dealing with the disparity in techinical ability long after we are gone. I get push back these days even using email ... (as being old school) ... sigh ... but at least "they" are there doing what they can in our interest. 

 

But!! The link PW put up has it all!! If we see it there and it pushes a button ... there will be plenty of time to take it to our TG/s and make a case (and probably "then" get the real story about how they arrived at their decision).  

When you have all those people talking about the same issue you have to give them some credit. I doub't there are too many shrinking violets in attendance. -_-

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The TGs should be voting the will of their individual clubs.

Their vote does not mean that they agree or disagree with any particular issue.

 

Yes sir. They should.

 

I would also venture to say a lot depends on how a question is asked.

  For instance:

1) "Would you be for or against doing away with the automatic SDQ penalty for moving from the loading table with a rifle hammer not fully down"?

VS

2) "Would you be for or against having a shooter found with a hammer not fully down fire it in a safe manner down range. If it fires it results in a SDQ, if it does not it is a no call"?

 

The first question can have an outcome where the shooter still can receive a "p" for inadvertantly half cocking the rifle on an obstacle. Thus reminding the shooter to keep their mind on gun safety.

 

The second question can have the outcome of possibly allowing the shooter to have the mindset of "I know there is no round in the chamber so what does it matter if my rifle is cocked there's no penalty". Reckon how many folks have screwed up with that thinking?

 

I can see where people would answer one way to one question and a different way to the other.

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As mentioned numerous times during the past couple years' discussions, the method specified in the approved rule change was used for many years by many clubs before the automatic SDQ was codified in the SHB ten years ago.

 

It was clearly marked as a PERSONAL NOTE.

 

Just because they have done it that way in the past doesn't make it the CORRECT way to do it.

I have been a firearms instructor since 1966......... I would never test to see if a gun is loaded by cocking it, pointing it anywhere, and pulling trigger.

 

 

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