H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 This is a question of curiosity, nothing else. We all know about the Winchesters, the Burgess and the Marlin. Did anyone else ever market an external hammer pump shotgun, ever? I don't believe anyone did, but you never know for sure unless you ask. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Marlin 1898 pump shotgun BANNED for use in CAS SASS There is a topic on this shotgun further along in this string of topics. It was being commented on within the last day or two. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Marlin 1898 pump shotgun BANNED for use in CAS SASS There is a topic on this shotgun further along in this string of topics. It was being commented on within the last day or two. Cat Brules One thread mentioning the Marlin 1898 got locked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 Spencer,,,, Much Stronger design than the Winnie and proceeds it by about 30 years .... P O Ackley, tested the action by Re-barreling it with a "Modern Steel" barrel (1950 Vintage )the barrel burst but the action was undamaged when he pushed the pressures Way above Normal for modern guns .... The breach remained locked in battery ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mild Bill #2326 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I regularly use a Marlin model 24, in monthly matches. Worn parts were replaced, and I consider it as strong as a Winchester model 97. I've been using it for many years, without incident. Unfortunately, SASS doesn't allow them in state championships or regionals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cypress Sun Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I regularly use a Marlin model 24, in monthly matches. Worn parts were replaced, and I consider it as strong as a Winchester model 97. I've been using it for many years, without incident. Unfortunately, SASS doesn't allow them in state championships or regionals. SASS doesn't allow them in any SASS sanctioned match. Some clubs may allow many different things such as using a Marlin 24, 1911, relaxed dress in hot/cool climate, shooting on the move and a host of other items.....that doesn't mean that they are SASS legal. When the manufacture issues a warning to not use a certain type of gun, I pay attention. Putting myself at risk it one thing, putting others at risk when I can easily remedy the situation (using a SxS or 97) is not something I want to do. Not only would hurting someone else make me feel terrible but would also leave me wide open for a lawsuit. If I were the TO, I would NOT allow you to use that shotgun for the reasons listed above. No offense intended. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 One thread mentioning the Marlin 1898 got locked. What was THAT all about!!? It’s not just locked, it’s gone. CB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 What was THAT all about!!? It’s not just locked, it’s gone. CB No idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bailey Creek,5759 Posted November 30, 2019 Share Posted November 30, 2019 I remember about 20 yrs ago or so . Winchester 97 were also banned . I used to keep the article in my wallet, until it fell apart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 The first year Marlin AND Winchester '97 pumps both earned the moniker of "Widowmaker". That is because they lacked mechanisms that prevented the bolt from coming back into the shooter's face. Both Marlin and Winchester redesigned their guns as they went along, making them stronger and more reliable. Only the family-owned Marlin company issued a "do not use" letter after several accidents involving some of their old guns. Several old Winchester '97s have had failures too. It is up to the shooter to make sure their guns are in safe condition for the amount of use we put them through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 Yeah... I know all about the Marlin, the Burgess the Winchesters, and even the Spencer. I know that of them all, only the Winchester 97 is SASS Legal. That's not what I asked about. Per my original post, did anybody else ever market any kind of an external hammer slide action shotgun? I'm just wondering if anyone ever did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimore Ed Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I guess that you would lump the Norinco 1897 and it’s trench version in with the winchesters. It is a little different though as it uses metric screws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 What was THAT all about!!? It’s not just locked, it’s gone. CB Howdy Cat. I 'think' it got locked because there were a couple disparaging comments about SASS owners and their rules forbidding certain SG usage in our game. I've been wrong before, but that is the way it appeared to me when it got locked. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 1, 2019 Author Share Posted December 1, 2019 I guess that you would lump the Norinco 1897 and it’s trench version in with the winchesters. It is a little different though as it uses metric screws. I choose to laugh at this comment in a humorous way. Well played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Yeah... I know all about the Marlin, the Burgess the Winchesters, and even the Spencer. I know that of them all, only the Winchester 97 is SASS Legal. That's not what I asked about. Per my original post, did anybody else ever market any kind of an external hammer slide action shotgun? I'm just wondering if anyone ever did. Not a slide action, but the Roper Shotgun had an internal rotary magazine in the receiver, and an external hammer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 Spencer,,,, Much Stronger design than the Winnie and proceeds it by about 30 years .... P O Ackley, tested the action by Re-barreling it with a "Modern Steel" barrel (1950 Vintage )the barrel burst but the action was undamaged when he pushed the pressures Way above Normal for modern guns .... The breach remained locked in battery ... Jabez Cowboy I am in the middle of doing the same thing with a 1890 Bannerman version of the Spencer (you can see the process on the cascity Spencer forum if you like). Spencer’s have a strong action that can not fire out of battery. They also have a spur on the bottom of the hammer that allows you to decock it and see that the hammer is down. Frankly, I think it would be a pain to use a Spencer pump for SASS given the way that the action works, which makes it tough to single load after the first round. But it’s biggest drawback is the Damascus barrel, which is the only reason I can see to ban it from SASS. I am building a shooter with a barrel modified from an 870 because I admire Christopher Spencer’s designs and wanted a version of the first practical pump shotgun to shoot. I will still use bp in brass shells in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimore Ed Posted December 1, 2019 Share Posted December 1, 2019 I choose to laugh at this comment in a humorous way. Well played. Happy to give you a laugh there H.K. If I’m anything I’m humorous. I’ve enjoyed shooting my Norinco trench and other than a shellstop screw coming out its run fine. In my 6 rd conversion I cracked a screwhead on the bayonet mount getting it off. Obviously Norinco also has an Italian gorilla who tightens screws for them. I find it interesting that in a sport that probably wouldn’t exist without foreign reproductions you poo poo a commie repro of a JMB winchester shotgun? I do regret that it was ‘made in china‘ but it’s the way of todays world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted December 2, 2019 Author Share Posted December 2, 2019 Oh, I don't poo poo the foreign copies. They are a valuable part of our game. I just very literally consider the Norinco made 97 to for all practical purposes, Winchesters. They are a copy of that design, not an all new one. In addition to two real Winchester 97s and one 93, I also one a Chinese 97 Trench gun and a 93/97 To say nothing of various Uberti and Pietta revolvers. Although my real Colts outnumber them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendo Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Just a spur rail to the track of this thread... Do they still make the Norincos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 Howdy Cat. I 'think' it got locked because there were a couple disparaging comments about SASS owners and their rules forbidding certain SG usage in our game. I've been wrong before, but that is the way it appeared to me when it got locked. ..........Widder Hmmm. “It’s good to be the king!“ (History of the World, Part I), sounds like. Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baltimore Ed Posted December 2, 2019 Share Posted December 2, 2019 To continue down that spur. According to the ‘internet’ Norinco was sanctioned and eventually banned from selling guns and ammo in the USA by Bush for either selling missle components to Iran or trying to sell guns directly to mafia gangsters or both. Not surprising as they are amoral chinese communists. I didn’t know this about Norinco myself until a few minutes ago. Too bad some enterprising outfit here doesn’t go and buy their 1897 tooling. Just looked and there’s 4—Norinco 1897s on GB now, 2 trench and 2 riots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted December 3, 2019 Share Posted December 3, 2019 I remember about 20 yrs ago or so . Winchester 97 were also banned . I used to keep the article in my wallet, until it fell apart. Thought that was the 93 Winchesters... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Nelson #11784 Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 Colonel George Fosberys Pump Shotgun of 1891? With a 6 lug rotating bolt...and...well...more of a bolt action style cocking piece on the rear of the bolt...but definitely external.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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