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Time for 1911's ???


Rye Miles #13621

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6 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

It’s not a big deal. SASS rules do apply and  99% of the guns participants use are SASS legal. You are correct some can’t work the action on a lever gun or shotgun so they use a 1911 and we had a guy last month who only shot revolvers because of this. I’ve got 21 vertebrae fused and instrumented and I can’t stand up to do the TO work, pick brass or count so I work the unload table exclusively. In our safety meeting before the match at every club I shoot at they tell us that we have to help in ALL posse duties, I can’t do most of them should I stop being allowed to participate? 

It's gonna be awhile before I do TO duties and only being 3 matches in, I don't trust myself enough to do spotter, yet. (Old eyes, bad ears)

I will, however, shag brass and work the table until the sun goes down. I will move tables, set up or take down targets and will run to grab something if someone needs it. (OK, so it's more of a hobble that looks like a cross between Wayne and Igor running, but you get the point.)

 

Really, when I got into the conversation here, I thought it was just a casual talk about keeping the good people I've met around and having fun, not about changing the points competition part of the sport. Keep the rules the rules for the competition, but isn't there any room to have fun with great people?

 

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

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No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!

 

:D

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56 minutes ago, Hendo said:

I wasn't expecting the Spanish Inquisition.

 

Hendo, CAS is a conservative shooting sport when it comes to shooting and costuming conventions.  Step out of bounds just a little bit and expect the western equivalent of the Spanish Inquisition.  I've never seen anyone tarred and feathered but some were ready for the deed.

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Soooo, I didn't read the entire thread, but isn't it always time for a 1911?

 

OK, OK -- I know the intent was to offer alternatives for folks who can't comfortably run wheel guns, but I can't help but smile when I pick up any 1911. They just feel right.

 

Similarly, it's always a good idea to shoot Wild Bunch, and it may make you a better cowboy shooter. In fact, 4 out of 5 doctors recommend all cowboy shooters at least try Wild Bunch (the other one is a liberal). You certainly don't need to worry about power factor at most monthly matches. So, load up some light loads, grab that SINGLE ACTION semi-auto 1911, and see if you don't smile a lot.

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18 hours ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

Our club has offered a Pike category for years.  Same scenario, same round count, just load a second magazine loaded with five rounds and go.  It gets shot three or four times a year.  I don't see this as the beginning of the end for SASS.  :)

 

Our club allows something similar,  I call it Prohibition Category.   Basically anything that is pre 1939 and can meet SASS ammo requirements.   Semiauto,  pump, DA revolvers, etc...  

20191124_183803.jpg

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Like I wrote earlier:

SASS encourages, or did in the past, clubs to try things out locally to see if they have widespread support.

MDs have latitude to accommodate shooters who would otherwise be unable to shoot.

 

Maybe an issue is that MDs are not accommodating shooters locally, so they have no choice but to quit.

 

 

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I think this whole cocking problem can be solved by sending your SAA's to Jimmy Spurs for lowered hammers & a good action job.

:o  :D

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35 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

I think this whole cocking problem can be solved by sending your SAA's to Jimmy Spurs for lowered hammers & a good action job.

:o  :D

It doesn't matter how easy it is to cock the hammer, the repetitive motion alone is what causes the pain. Remember you're cocking your gun 60 times! I have a slicked up pair of Colts and also a pair of slicked up Uberti's, they're smooth and as easy to pull the hammer back as any Jimmy Spurs gun that I've tried. I can still make it through a match with ALEVE but they're are people that have arthritis far worse than I do.

 

BTW we all miss ya at Firelands, when ya coming to visit?:)

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

 

BTW we all miss ya at Firelands, when ya coming to visit?:)

 

I'd give an eyetooth to shoot with y'all again !!

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17 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

 

I'd give an eyetooth to shoot with y'all again !!

 Anytime pard!! We're shooting on the 3rd Sat from April-Nov!;)

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18 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

...I can still make it through a match with ALEVE but they're are people that have arthritis far worse than I do...

BTW, in an earlier post, I mentioned using Aleve before surgery to enable me to shoot. Since then, I have developed an allergy to all NSAIDs. They give me a rash and I was told to only take them with Benadryl. LOL! Just the thing to use at a shooting match.:o Zzzzzzzzzzzzz!

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The OP asked for opinions on using a 1911 in SASS matches, many disagreed with that idea. That’s not the equivalent of tarring and feathering nor does it mean those who feel that way are insensitive to those of us who have disabilities.

 

You can’t allow 1911s in your matches and state SASS rules apply.

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

The OP asked for opinions on using a 1911 in SASS matches, many disagreed with that idea. That’s not the equivalent of tarring and feathering nor does it mean those who feel that way are insensitive to those of us who have disabilities.

 

You can’t allow 1911s in your matches and state SASS rules apply.

Ah, but we can allow 1911’s in our matches and what the hell are state SASS rules?:D

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This is an interesting thread thats dear to my heart.  My club ECSASS in eastern NC adopted WASA [Western Action Shootist Association] many many years ago and we use both SASS and WASA rules at our monthly shoots. Shooters can use 2x single actions, 2x double actions on a single/double action and a selfloader, [each gun loaded with 5 rds naturally]  and selfloaders have to be slide locked before reholstering. The only other big improvement is that the shooter can load his sg on the line with as many shells needed for the sg course of fire, it’s not any faster but a lot more fun. SIX rds from a 97 is alot more exciting than 1+1+1+1+1+1. The majority of our shooters use sa’s but nobody bitches when I shoot. I generally run my 1911 strong side and a New Service in a crossdraw unless I’m using my Webleys.  Right before Wild Bunch became an official thing and not just side matches  I proposed a Classic Military Category to SASS that would have encompassed military pistols and uniforms up to The Punitive Expedition. It was set up like classic cowboy where your uniform had to have so many items to qualify. I got bored with and stopped shooting SA’s years ago moving on to other pistols. I didn’t sell my vaqueros, just moved on to other WASA toys. We also do Wild Bunch and CAS at the same monthly matches, BAM matches too, shot one yesterday. Here I am doing a BAM match Span Am impression. It’s all fun.

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The English word squaw, (as has been used in "squaw grip" here in this thread), is an ethnic and sexual slur, historically used for Indigenous North American women.  Contemporary use of the term, especially by non-Natives, is considered offensive, derogatorymisogynist and racist, similar to words used in the past for black Americans.  The English word is not used among Native AmericanFirst NationsInuit, or Métis peoples.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Like I wrote earlier:

SASS encourages, or did in the past, clubs to try things out locally to see if they have widespread support.

MDs have latitude to accommodate shooters who would otherwise be unable to shoot.

 

Maybe an issue is that MDs are not accommodating shooters locally, so they have no choice but to quit.

 

 

I cannot say I've ever been to a match where major accommodations were needed and were not made to enable anyone who wanted to shoot.   I've also never known anyone who quit, due to arthritic pain by itself.  It seems most of us will shoot until we drop, and endure whatever discomfort we encounter to do so.   At least I hope that is the case. 

 

 I really think there are very few of our older shooters who don't perform with some kind of major disabity or pain, whether it be spine problems, knee joint or hip problems, foot problems, or arthritic limbs.  But we still get up there and give it our best, and we do it among friends who WANT to assist where they reasonably can.   That's what is different about CAS shooting.  People WANT the other shooters to participate and do well.   

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8 hours ago, Yul Lose said:

Ah, but we can allow 1911’s in our matches and what the hell are state SASS rules?:D

As Allie pointed out. 
 

You can certainly allow 1911s, or whatever other guns you choose, at your matches. But you can’t do that and state THAT you are following SASS rules.

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2 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

As Allie pointed out. 
 

You can certainly allow 1911s, or whatever other guns you choose, at your matches. But you can’t do that and state THAT you are following SASS rules.

But what if you're following the SASS Wild Bunch rules for that category? Hmmm.......:o

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32 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

But what if you're following the SASS Wild Bunch rules for that category? Hmmm.......:o

SHB page 33

Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict. 

 

SHB page 38

 

Original single action revolvers manufactured prior to 1899, their approved replicas, and the SASS approved single action adjustable sight revolvers are the only revolvers approved for use in SASS main match competition. 
 

SHB page 40

The following additional firearms have been approved for use:
- Small frame Model P revolvers such as the Cimarron Firearms Lightning, Uberti Stallion, and Ruger Single Six .32 H & R Magnum
- Henry Big Boy Rifle (not legal in Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl Categories)
- US Firearms Omni Potent Revolver
- Marlin 1894 Tube Feed Rifle—.32 H&R Magnum
- Original or replica Nagant Single Action Revolver

 

I don’t see 1911s mentioned. I don’t see anything about WBAS guns being legal in SASS either. Perhaps someone could bring a 1911 to EOT, Winter Range, or even a state match and try to use it, then  us know how that works out.

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23 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

SHB page 33

Firearms must operate as intended by the original pre-1900 designs they depict. 

 

SHB page 38

 

Original single action revolvers manufactured prior to 1899, their approved replicas, and the SASS approved single action adjustable sight revolvers are the only revolvers approved for use in SASS main match competition. 
 

SHB page 40

The following additional firearms have been approved for use:
- Small frame Model P revolvers such as the Cimarron Firearms Lightning, Uberti Stallion, and Ruger Single Six .32 H & R Magnum
- Henry Big Boy Rifle (not legal in Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl Categories)
- US Firearms Omni Potent Revolver
- Marlin 1894 Tube Feed Rifle—.32 H&R Magnum
- Original or replica Nagant Single Action Revolver

 

I don’t see 1911s mentioned. I don’t see anything about WBAS guns being legal in SASS either. Perhaps someone could bring a 1911 to EOT, Winter Range, or even a state match and try to use it, then  us know how that works out.

I know the rules of SASS, but there are rules for Wild Bunch that are written by SASS.  I'm saying they can be incorporated into monthly matches. There are clubs that do it! I NEVER said anything about EOT or any state or above matches. :wacko:

 

Let me be perfectly clear. In my OP I said "main matches", I meant main monthly matches. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

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Rye is correct. The original question posed was about allowing 1911's in monthly matches to help out folks with disabilities. As per Wire norm, the thread took of on different tangents. 

 

Still don't agree with the 1911 in monthly matches as that is what the original intention of the thread was but to continue on about matches above monthlies isn't what the thread intended.

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I am an "EL PATRON". I have lots of arthritis. I shoot black powder gunfighter with no extra special problems. I use single action revolvers. I also shoot NRA bullseye with 1911s. That's a DIFFERENT sport.

 

Pain is weakness leaving the body!!!!

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I know the rules of SASS, but there are rules for Wild Bunch that are written by SASS.  I'm saying they can be incorporated into monthly matches. There are clubs that do it! I NEVER said anything about EOT or any state or above matches. :wacko:

 

Let me be perfectly clear. In my OP I said "main matches", I meant main monthly matches. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

1 inch = 1 yard = 1 mile.  

That isn't logic, it is rationalization. 

 

Why have rules at all -- just go shoot whatever you want and call it whatever you want.  (as if the TO doesn't already have enough to watch and keep track of in a main match). 

 

Reasonable Accommodation is fine and it is expected.  Changing the whole sport description goes well beyond that.   I used to be an avid rock climber.   As I got older, there were more and more routes I just couldn't do any more, and nobody graded them down to 10% slope to accommodate me, and that was OK.   

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Wild Bunch is not a category, it's a type of MATCH. If you wanna have WB, have another match on another day. My opinion.

On just using 1911s (instead of single actions) in a CAS match... we're called SINGLE ACTION Shooting Society for a reason.

If you're arthritic enough that working a single action is rough on ya, I don't figure a 1911 will be much easier. Again... my opinion.

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I know the rules of SASS, but there are rules for Wild Bunch that are written by SASS.  I'm saying they can be incorporated into monthly matches. There are clubs that do it! I NEVER said anything about EOT or any state or above matches. :wacko:

 

Let me be perfectly clear. In my OP I said "main matches", I meant main monthly matches. Sorry if you misunderstood.

 

To me it sounds like you've gone from asking about using 1911's in SASS matches to stating you think they're allowed under the rules.   I mentioned higher matches to point out that they're clearly not allowed.   Yes you may choose to do so at a monthly because at monthly matches you have the option to not follow SASS rules.  At state and above you don't have that option.  

 

To me you've posed one question,  what do people think about allowing 1911s in SASS matches.  Two you're asserting that if a monthly match allows 1911's it's still within SASS rules, which is not true.

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