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Barbwire Bill, SASS #661

Standard Mfg SAA

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2 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

If you got the money, spend it; can't take it with you ;)

 

 

Yep, I've never seen a Brinks truck following a funeral procession!! 

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I am going to add more fuel on to the fire. These are all recent Standard Mfg Single Action Revolvers that I am currently working on for an upcoming article. One is made to the exact original Colt specs. It's the only one that I know of. No, they are not mine.

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Which one? And how do you know it's the same specs? Can you tell us more about it? As in will Standard be offering it shortly? For me, that's a serious game changer.

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P.S. I’ve been meaning to post this but just haven’t gotten around to it. Bear in mind I’m not the best photographer. This is my custom shop colt that took almost three years to come to me. One of the very last orders placed right before colt closed orders to catch up with the backlog. They’re open again and anyone can order for the low starting price of $3450. I paid substantially less for me. The only downside, besides the wait of course, is that I ordered a bp frame and they couldn’t deliver that. 
 

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They’re "open" again and anyone can order for the low starting price of $3450

:wacko:

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:wacko:

Supposedly, that price guarantees a 90-120 day delivery. I can't confirm that as I have yet to meet anyone with more money than patience/sense that have gone that route. I am sure someone will though.

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The black powder frame pistol is built to exact Colt specs according to the owner of the gun and the Standard rep I spoke with. I am trying to get more details. I am being told it is the only one. 

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The black powder frame pistol is built to exact Colt specs according to the owner of the gun and the Standard rep I spoke with. I am trying to get more details. I am being told it is the only one. 

In your photo, there are 3 black powder frame guns

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My bad. The walnut gripped 7 1/2” model. 

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My bad. The walnut gripped 7 1/2” model. 

Keep me posted on that. If it is indeed colt specs in a bp frame that Standard will be offering, that completely changes my entire opinion on buying one (or more).

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Do you notice that it's slightly larger than a Colt?

 

 

If you only had the one gun you'd not notice the difference.  If you have both side by side (Colt verses any Uberti based gun) most will easily notice the larger Uberti size guns.   There is a difference in balance in your hand and there is a difference in size that a lot of holsters will clearly show.   Both Standard and USFA guns are manufactured to size and spec of Uberti CNC programs.

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What type of pricing are you seeing for the Standard?  Are they selling under MSR?

No. The dealer I am friends with sells them at the MSRP and has sold over 50 of them in the past year.

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If you only had the one gun you'd not notice the difference.  If you have both side by side (Colt verses any Uberti based gun) most will easily notice the larger Uberti size guns.   There is a difference in balance in your hand and there is a difference in size that a lot of holsters will clearly show.   Both Standard and USFA guns are manufactured to size and spec of Uberti CNC programs.

I have heard this many times and I question the validity. It is a .030" difference in cylinder size between Standard and Colt, from what others have said. That is the thickness of a credit card overall. So that means the cylinder will stick out .015" more on each side. Leather has a great deal of give and take and .030" isn't enough to matter.

The balance is also going to change depending on the caliber, length of barrel, plating, and type of grips. If you really want to get down to it, the balance will change depending on the weight of bullets being used and is the gun is loaded or not.

IMG_1038.JPG

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I am going to add more fuel on to the fire. These are all recent Standard Mfg Single Action Revolvers that I am currently working on for an upcoming article. One is made to the exact original Colt specs. It's the only one that I know of. No, they are not mine.

Beautiful guns.  Where will your article be published?  Very interested reading.

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Beautiful guns.  Where will your article be published?  Very interested reading.

Guns Magazine, if I ever get the article done. I would guess sometime next year. I am in the process of moving from Indiana to Arizona and starting work at a new branch for JCI so life is just a tiny bit hectic right now.

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I have heard this many times and I question the validity. It is a .030" difference in cylinder size between Standard and Colt

 

Gun writer hu?  All it takes putting a Colt and a Standard (or a Uberti or a USFA)  side by side in the same caliber, same barrel length to make the comparison.  Not only can you easily see the difference side by side but the difference in feel (balance and weight actually) is obvious.

 

Let's clear the air some...

> Leather has a great deal of give and take and .030" isn't enough to matter.

 

obviously you haven't had a Standard or a Uberti in a Colt holster.....  or dozens of holsters.

 

>The balance is also going to change depending on the caliber, length of barrel, plating, and type of grips. If you really want to get down to it, the balance will change depending on the weight of bullets being used and is the gun is loaded or not.

 

Are you kidding me?   How about you stick to comparing apples to apples.   'Cuz what you wrote there is non sense.

 

You said one of the samples (you were loaned) by Standard to write a article was made to Colt spec.  Make an actual comparison.  Better yet get a Colt and do the same.   .

 

Get the guns, weigh them yourself, publish the facts not you opinions.   

 

My comment previous doin just that.

 

"All of us that are USFA fans or now Standard like to comment on  how nice the guns are for fit and finish.  And no doubt they are.  Sadly they all share one thing with Uberti, and that is the fact no matter how nice any of the three are or how well they shoot, and they all shoot pretty dang good by Colt standards, they are also a lot bigger guns.   Big enough to have any of the three stand out in a side by side comparison to a Colt of the same barrel length.

 

weight 4 3/4", 45 Colt cal.

usfa  992g   35.0oz

Colt  918g   32.4oz

 

74g=2.6oz"

 

With all due respect.  Nothing wrong with promoting someone's product in print that is what gun writers get paid for, guns loaned and the resulting perks for properly pimping products.   But if you are going to make comparisons take the time and effort to make the comparisons accurate.

 

IMG_3356%2B%25282%2529.JPG

 

 

Guns in red are either Uberti, USFA or Standard, the guns out side the red are all Colt.   It isn't an optical illusion.  The Uberti based guns.....Standard being a Uberti based gun as well are larger even to the eye if you make a side by side comparison.

IMG_3356%2B%25283%2529_LI.jpg

 

   I'll let you decide what is a Colt and what isn't in this one.

DSC00687.JPG

 

 

Edited by levi littleton
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Gun writer hu?  All it takes putting a Colt and a Standard (or a Uberti or a USFA)  side by side in the same caliber, same barrel length to make the comparison.  Not only can you easily see the difference side by side but the difference in feel (balance and weight actually) is obvious.

 

Let's clear the air some...

> Leather has a great deal of give and take and .030" isn't enough to matter.

 

obviously you haven't had a Standard or a Uberti in a Colt holster.....  or dozens of holsters.

 

>The balance is also going to change depending on the caliber, length of barrel, plating, and type of grips. If you really want to get down to it, the balance will change depending on the weight of bullets being used and is the gun is loaded or not.

 

Are you kidding me?   How about you stick to comparing apples to apples.   'Cuz what you wrote there is non sense.

 

You said one of the samples (you were loaned) by Standard to write a article was made to Colt spec.  Make an actual comparison.  Better yet get a Colt and do the same.   .

 

Get the guns, weigh them yourself, publish the facts not you opinions.   

 

My comment previous doin just that.

 

"All of us that are USFA fans or now Standard like to comment on  how nice the guns are for fit and finish.  And no doubt they are.  Sadly they all share one thing with Uberti, and that is the fact no matter how nice any of the three are or how well they shoot, and they all shoot pretty dang good by Colt standards, they are also a lot bigger guns.   Big enough to have any of the three stand out in a side by side comparison to a Colt of the same barrel length.

 

weight 4 3/4", 45 Colt cal.

usfa  992g   35.0oz

Colt  918g   32.4oz

 

74g=2.6oz"

 

With all due respect.  Nothing wrong with promoting someone's product in print that is what gun writers get paid for, guns loaned and the resulting perks for properly pimping products.   But if you are going to make comparisons take the time and effort to make the comparisons accurate.

 

IMG_3356%2B%25282%2529.JPG

 

 

Guns in red are either Uberti, USFA or Standard, the guns out side the red are all Colt.   It isn't an optical illusion.  The Uberti based guns.....Standard being a Uberti based gun as well are larger even to the eye if you make a side by side comparison.

IMG_3356%2B%25283%2529_LI.jpg

 

   I'll let you decide what is a Colt and what isn't in this one.

DSC00687.JPG

 

 

 

Thanks for the information. I am not questioning your knowledge and it's obvious you have the guns to back up what you say. But, I have read on another forum in the past year where someone else weighed his various Colt's and clones and the Colt weighed more. But he never went into detail on what grips, caliber, or barrel length he was using for the comparison. And that is what I feel is missing from most comments like this. Are they truly comparing apples to apples? I am not trying to push any firearm. Like some have said, if I had the extra cash to spend on one, I'm buying one with a pony on it. And from my experience, the layman can't feel or see the difference. I have put Colt grips on some of my non-Colt clones and everyone thinks I'm shooting the real thing. I know I can't pick out the Colt from your photo. The angle of the photo distorts the grips to me. As far as my holsters go, of which I only have a few, the only issue I have is trying to put non-beveled cylinder guns in. Everything else slides right in. 

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Thanks for the information. I am not questioning your knowledge and it's obvious you have the guns to back up what you say. But, I have read on another forum...

 

Problem with forums and the Internet in general is you never know what  the source is of how valid the info is.  I have no dog in a fight here.  Just stating facts I have taken the time to  research and verified in person.  

 

If you are gonna claim something best to be able to back it up with real experience.   As an example I have lots of SAA leather.  Some best suited for a Colt because a Uberti based gun is simply so tight in the holster as to make it usable.  Could I eventually make it work by stretching the holster?  On most of them, sure.     Although it is fine with a Colt.  Have a Uberti holster?  Colt is smaller and it won't be an issue.

 

"from my experience, the layman can't feel or see the difference. I have put Colt grips on some of my non-Colt clones and everyone thinks I'm shooting the real thing."

 

Most laymen wouldn't know the difference between a Colt Commander (28oz empty and a 4.25" barrel) and a 1911 (38oz and a 5" barrel).   Most will barely recognize the difference with the gun at arms reach.  Even those familiar with a 1911 of any sort would have a hard time telling the difference from 50 feet and a quick glance.   But (talking about Standard now) the real difference between a Uberti that costs $500 and a Standard that costs $2000 aint gonna be noticed by ANYONE at 50 feet....which would include actually shooting them.

 

 

Three early 2019 production Uberti 44 Specials.  Center and left are consecutive serial numbers and cross pin frames.  The right gun is a BP frame version.

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Again with all due respect here,  but if your reviews or comments (as 2 of your comments here have been) are based of info from the Internet it aint going to be a very useful info IMO.   Standard makes a good gun.  But it aint a Colt, just as Uberti and USFA aren't Colts.   

 

All 4 brands have  some good things going for them and some not so good things going for them.   Hard to decide which one is best for your own needs with out facts that are based on actual experience based on more than just a one gun sample. 

 

"I know I can't pick out the Colt from your photo. "

 

I bet you'd be surprised once you start looking for the differences.  Two on the left are Colt.  Two on the right are USFA (which are the same size guns as a Standard or Uberti).  There is an obvious difference in size between the two middle guns, it is not an optical illusion of the camera angle as you might expect.

 

 

 

 

Edited by levi littleton

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Had you said, hey, this is Cozmo, I wouldn't have questioned a thing. I didn't realize you were is SASS. That's great! For the record, my guess was for the two center revolvers but only because I would have put both of my most valuable items in the center of the photo.

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Thanks for the information. I am not questioning your knowledge and it's obvious you have the guns to back up what you say. But, I have read on another forum in the past year where someone else weighed his various Colt's and clones and the Colt weighed more. But he never went into detail on what grips, caliber, or barrel length he was using for the comparison. And that is what I feel is missing from most comments like this. Are they truly comparing apples to apples? I am not trying to push any firearm. Like some have said, if I had the extra cash to spend on one, I'm buying one with a pony on it. And from my experience, the layman can't feel or see the difference. I have put Colt grips on some of my non-Colt clones and everyone thinks I'm shooting the real thing. I know I can't pick out the Colt from your photo. The angle of the photo distorts the grips to me. As far as my holsters go, of which I only have a few, the only issue I have is trying to put non-beveled cylinder guns in. Everything else slides right in. 

I consider myself a layman, seeing how I have zero industry experience and just play with the guns. I can tell the difference the majority of the time just by looking at the guns that there is a size difference, and I can definitely tell by feel there is. I have tested this multiple times with multiple guns, in 3 different calibers, with a myriad of grip materials, blindfolded, and so far have gotten them right every time. I also questioned that the difference would matter in regards to leather, until it actually happened once that I tried to put an uberti into my el paso saddlery rig and the darn thing wouldn't draw out without the belt practically pulling up to my nipple. A bit of an exaggeration, but not by much.  Now in all fairness, this rig had only ever held a first gen Colt, so even the third gen was slightly tight, but not like the uberti. Now if I have a rig that has been used well with an uberti, I love using it with a Colt. Keep in mind that all of this information is based on a sample size of one.

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Had you said, hey, this is Cozmo, I wouldn't have questioned a thing. I didn't realize you were is SASS. That's great! For the record, my guess was for the two center revolvers but only because I would have put both of my most valuable items in the center of the photo.

Forgot to mention, hell yeah he's a sass shooter. Very low 4 digit number at that. Don't be surprised to see his name high up in the standings of the Idaho State Championship. Especially the long range pistol competition. For my money, there aren't very many people around that can shoot like he does.

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"Sin" is my adopted son, so don't pay him no mind :rolleyes:   Kinda embarrassed having to explain myself now.    Broke my pelvis on a snorty horse and haven't shot SASS in over a year now.  Shot the state match about 90 days out of that, did poorly other than Precision pistol.   Likely they let me  prop myself up to shoot, can't actually remember for the oxy.   Chit, wonder if that was even legal shooting?    Anyway hard to shoot if ya can't walk  :ph34r:   Likely helped that it was the first day and a side match that no one showed for:blush:.     But I got so excited I ordered myself one of them fancy buckles to mark the occasion.    Haven't been any where but at the bottom of a match in a long, long time.   Got more excuses than I got pill bottles now.     But the badge and time frame  is real.    I have better guns but I used a Colt that day.  Been using Levi's handle since day one.  

 

Anyway,  Cholla,  be sure to have fun with them new blasters!  Looking forward to your write up. 

 

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Edited by levi littleton
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Thanks, but the guns are not mine. They are from a friend of mine that seems to have an inside track in getting one-off Standard firearms to go with his extensive collection of Colt SAAs. I doubt the revolvers I posted will ever be fired.

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Thanks, but the guns are not mine. They are from a friend of mine that seems to have an inside track in getting one-off Standard firearms to go with his extensive collection of Colt SAAs. I doubt the revolvers I posted will ever be fired.

 

 

I noted they weren't yours in the previous posts but on loan for an article in GUNS.  I use to advertise in GUNS and AH so I am painfully aware of how things are done inside the gun industry.  .  I'm just curious how you justify, "I doubt the revolvers I posted will ever be fired"   with the photos you posted here clearly  implying the guns have been fired?  

 

IMG_3143.JPG

 

 

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I noted they weren't yours in the previous posts but on loan for an article in GUNS.  I use to advertise in GUNS and AH so I am painfully aware of how things are done inside the gun industry.  .  I'm just curious how you justify, "I doubt the revolvers I posted will ever be fired"   with the photos you posted here clearly  implying the guns have been fired?  

 

IMG_3143.JPG

 

 

 

 

You sure post nice pictures.  Nickel plated guns are especially hard to photograph.  Maybe start a topic on how to take nice pictures?

 

I have a bushel (exaggeration) of Uberti Cattleman and three Colt SAA.   Although the difference is small, I swear that I can feel the difference between the Uberti and Colt - even with same caliber and barrel length. Maybe the grips? 

 

Ironically, I've gotten the best groups with the old second generation Colt SAA in 45Colt that has shot away a dump truck of lead.  

 

5a750f27ef568_ColtSAA45ColtFeb2018.jpg.6e5beb68a2b8c994ab212517bfb5db3a.jpg

 

Last winter I had the hammer notches rewelded and cut and new cam installed.  Turned out it had been rebuilt at least once before.

 

The throats measure 459!  A 45-70 bullet sized to 458 will drop through the cylinder. 

 

 

Edited by Warden Callaway
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I noted they weren't yours in the previous posts but on loan for an article in GUNS.  I use to advertise in GUNS and AH so I am painfully aware of how things are done inside the gun industry.  .  I'm just curious how you justify, "I doubt the revolvers I posted will ever be fired"   with the photos you posted here clearly  implying the guns have been fired?  

 

IMG_3143.JPG

 

 

The cards are all props that I have used repeatedly to make interesting photos to match stories I have read of the gunfighters of the Old West. I bought a reproduction 1864 deck of playing cards to use. I saw this exact card (the original) used by John Wesley Hardin. Could the gun shoot like this? I'm sure if you were shooting it, yes. If I was shooting it from two feet away, maybe. People like to see them with old time looking props, so that's what I do. The buffalo hide are my chaps, the blanket is my poncho. Sometimes I add reproduction ammo boxes that look period correct. I have had folks ask me to photograph their guns in the same manner.

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You sure post nice pictures.  Nickel plated guns are especially hard to photograph.  Maybe start a topic on how to take nice pictures?

 

I have a bushel (exaggeration) of Uberti Cattleman and three Colt SAA.   Although the difference is small, I swear that I can feel the difference between the Uberti and Colt - even with same caliber and barrel length. Maybe the grips? 

 

Ironically, I've gotten the best groups with the old second generation Colt SAA in 45Colt that has shot away a dump truck of lead.  

 

5a750f27ef568_ColtSAA45ColtFeb2018.jpg.6e5beb68a2b8c994ab212517bfb5db3a.jpg

 

Last winter I had the hammer notches rewelded and cut and new cam installed.  Turned out it had been rebuilt at least once before.

 

The throats measure 459!  A 45-70 bullet sized to 458 will drop through the cylinder. 

 

 

Thanks, but the credit for the nickle-plated Colt goes to Levi. If you were referring to my photos, thanks again. I have fun with it. I try to find props that logically go with the firearm. I just bought a hundred-year old .38 Long Colt two-piece ammo box to use with my Colt M1877 and a few other guns I have. I recently found three original wrought-iron cattle brands that will look awesome with the Old West firearms. I just scoured eBay a few weeks ago to find original 1900s tobacco tags and coupons to photograph with a Colt M1877 that is lettered to have been given out as a premium by Liggett and Myer Tobacco in 1901.

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I didn't come here to argue with anyone or continue to point out the obvious discrepancies in your comments and photos.  So  this is my last comment.

 

Implying a gun shoots (by photos) when, as you say, "likely will never get shot" is disingenuous at best.   I take a lot of photos with props, leather, saddles, and the like.  I only post targets with the guns that actually shoot them.   Will the guns you posted with the card targets actually shoot that well?  Neither you or I know one way or the other until someone actually  takes the guns out and shoots them.

 

I've had the good fortune to shoot dozens of Colts and may be even more USFA guns.  All but two of the USFA guns shot exceptionally well.  But two of them were  clearly lemons.   They  didn't shoot worth a chit.

 

This was one of them.  I bought it because I thought it was  the coolest  blue and cased gun I'd ever seen.   I actually returned the gun to the dealer and exchanged it for another.  No clue what he did with it.    Beauty is only skin deep.   I want mine to actually shoot.

 

aax1.jpg

 

    

Edited by levi littleton
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My article, if it ever gets written, won't be about how well the guns shoot. The story I am tying to develop is about the series of singles actions that Standard is making that are in limited runs or one-off. The Standard Buntline is allegedly the only black-powder frame Buntline that they will ever make. The Colt-dimension gun is supposedly the only Colt-spec gun they will ever make. The revolver with "ivory" grips was made using remaining USFA faux ivory grips that are limited in quantity. They also have told me that they are going to make bird's head grip models, but only in 10-15 gun runs. So all of them are collector's guns. Why, when, and how many is part of the story I'm trying to get.

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