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Spring Tensions?


Quizcat

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Can anybody provide me with the links to various replacement spring sets for the Ruger New Vaquero Revolvers.  I've checked Brownells, but I'm a little confused by what they have to offer when they lump Anniversary Blackhawks and New Vaqueros together. 

 

Plus, my preference would be to lighten the hammer spring tension to around 19oz, rather than to the 14 oz. hammer spring tension offered in the Brownell's kit.  I'm not sure what would be best for trigger spring tension either...In that same kit, Brownells offers a 30 or 40 ounce spring in the kit on their website. 

 

The spring tension Brownell's offers of 14 oz. just seems a little too touchy to me.  I want to lighten the New Vaquero hammer and trigger spring tensions, but I don't want the revolvers going off when the wind blows.  Brownell's also offers just a hammer spring kit with three different tensions for the hammer, but I don't see a separate kit for trigger spring tensions.

 

Being a newbie, I'm open to advice about which spring tensions for the hammers and triggers are best for CAS.  I would sincerely appreciate reading varying opinions on the topic, and getting some links, or contact information thatI can check out with respect to various brands of spring/hammer tension kits for the Ruger New Vaquero.  

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I agree with you on that spring.  I run 19lb springs in my Rugers as well.  Lock time is important.  I have enough stories of shooters outrunning lock time to not go to 14 pound springs.

 

Trigger spring will be up to you based on personal preference.

 

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The Wolff kit for the New Vaquero contains 14, 15 and 16 pound hammer strut springs. The 30 and 40 oz springs are replacement trigger springs. They are available separately only. I'm using the 14 pound hammer spring and a 40 oz trigger spring but I prefer the crisper reset of the 40 oz. Choice of hammer spring depends on several variables, any other smoothing up done to the gun, what ammo do you use? I reload and use only Federal primers (easy to pop) and the internals have been smoothed up so the 14 works fine. With the 3 spring set you can test with your guns and your ammo to be sure you have 100% reliable ignition.

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23 minutes ago, Doc Shapiro said:

I agree with you on that spring.  I run 19lb springs in my Rugers as well.  Lock time is important.  I have enough stories of shooters outrunning lock time to not go to 14 pound springs.

 

Trigger spring will be up to you based on personal preference.

 

 

My thinking (and experience) also leans in the same direction as mentioned by Doc.

 

Personally, I've never liked any hammer spring lighter than 17 lbs.

and my trigger springs are set around 42 oz.

 

..........Widder

 

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24 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

If you plan to shoot Duelist/Double Duelist/Gunfighter then I'd suggest keeping the trigger springs on the heavy side; 40oz would be as light as I'd go personally.

 

I am replacing all my light trigger springs with heavier ones. Since switching to shooting double duelist I no longer care for really light trigger springs. 

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I shoot Gunfighter and use the springkit from Longhunter - 30oz trigger spring and 15# hammer spring. I only use Federal primers.

 

I haven't done any other smithing and using  a crude trigger gauge I get a 2.5# trigger pull. Very light and great for gunfighter.

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I just received a Wolf spring pack with 17, 18 & 19 lb hammer springs for folks to judge for themselves. I also received a 3 pack of 15 lb. hammer springs.

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They're Model #5159s, .38/.357, New Vaqueros...

 

The selection of springs is more confusing with respect to Ruger Single Action Revolvers than other brands. To illustrate, I inquired directly with Wolff this afternoon via email about which springs they recommend, and I gave them all the details of the revolvers involved.  They recommended part numbers for springs they claim will fit my revolvers, but also stated "unless my revolvers have the (smaller) XR-3 grip frame." 

 

According to my research, the current manufacture New Vaqueros, since serial number prefix "510," all have XR-3 smaller grip frames, certainly compared to the Old Style Vaqueros, and they also have a unique internal locking hammer mechanism design.  Mine have a serial number prefix of "513."

 

This is the problem when selecting springs for New Vaqueros. Even the experts (Wolff) are off with respect to what will work properly in a New Vaquero revolver.  I brought this to Wolff's attention in a followup email this afternoon, and I'm still waiting for an answer, which will probably be coming tomorrow.  

 

I just don't want to waste money on springs that all look virtually alike, but are wrong, and more importantly, I don't want to waste time putting springs into the revolvers that won't improve the action, and could even possibly create a dangerous or damaging situation.

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It is confusing.  I have some balckhawks and they have the xr-3 frame, so short springs, then my Bisley uses the longer stiffer springs as the frame is larger.  FWIW the long springs will fit in the xr-3 frame, but will have a higher rate and are almost coil bound when cocked. 
 

best thing to do is check your frame size and order the appropriate springs.  https://gunblast.com/Hamm_Ruger-SA-GripFrames.htm

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He doesn't even know which springs to order because the mfr he contacted was no help. Not his fault.

Pls call Grand Masters LLC (Power Custom) at 573-372-5684 and they will coach you through it. They are friendly, knowledgeable and know what they're talking about for your application.

Randall is the best!

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I also sent an inquiry to Ruger Customer Service and asked them the hammer and trigger spring factory spring tension specs for the New Vaquero. They replied as follows:

 

"The standard Main Spring (Hammer) that is in all Single series revolvers, Blackhawk, Super Blackhawk, and New Vaquero has a working weight of 20-25 pounds. The Trigger Return spring has a working weight of 1-3.5 pounds. This isn't the weight you feel on the hammer and trigger because they are working as a levers."

 

If they are working as levers, isn't it logical to assume that the felt weight would be less than 20-25 lbs. on the hammer spring, and 1-.3.5 lbs. on the trigger spring?  If that be the case, it doesn't seem logical that changing the hammer spring out to around 19lbs., and the trigger spring to 30 or 40 ounces (1.87 to 2.5 lbs.), would be beneficial. 

 

I can test the actual trigger pull on the revolvers with a trigger pull gauge, but not sure if there's a way to test for actual hammer spring pull-back weight, other than trial and error.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

He doesn't even know which springs to order because the mfr he contacted was no help. Not his fault.

Pls call Grand Masters LLC (Power Custom) at 573-372-5684 and they will coach you through it. They are friendly, knowledgeable and know what they're talking about for your application.

Randall is the best!

Yes, I do plan to talk with them...thanks for the recommendation, it didn't go unnoticed.  I did visit their website, and they're selling Wolff hammer and trigger springs for the New Vaquero.  But, talking with them will be one of my next steps in hopes they can recommend a working solution.  

 

Ruger most definitely is contributing to the problem, almost to the extent that it appears that they've planned to do it on purpose, as though it's some kind of strategy to keep the end user and gunsmiths at a distinct disadvantage.  I notice that Ruger has established a Custom Shop Service.  Could it be they're protecting their Custom Gunsmithing business through "smoke 'n mirrors" marketing tactics?

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Case in point...

 

I inquired with Ruger Customer Service as to the grip frame designation based on the serial numbers of my New Vaquero revolvers.  Here is their response:

 

"The grip frame designation for both of these firearms is KMVQ00301."

 

Oh, that was helpful!!! LOL!

 

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15 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Why don't you call Wollf and speak to one of the tech folks?

They are the spring maker that supply many gun makers with OEM

springs.

OLG 

Yeah, I shouldn't have to, but it seems like it's about the only way I may be able to get an straight answer.

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57 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

If they are working as levers, isn't it logical to assume that the felt weight would be less than 20-25 lbs. on the hammer spring, and 1-.3.5 lbs. on the trigger spring?  If that be the case, it doesn't seem logical that changing the hammer spring out to around 19lbs., and the trigger spring to 30 or 40 ounces (1.87 to 2.5 lbs.), would be beneficial. 

Thanks for sharing. 

You can "comparison test" hammer pull back force pretty well by changing one pistol at a time and comparing the two.  It's not quantitative, but does it need to be?  You can easily feel a 1 pound difference.  

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Let's just Get through the Winter before we get ta dealing with Spring Tensions >>>>>>>>

Why borrow troubles from the season yet to come ????

Merry Christmas .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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.Quizcat,

New Model Vaquero's take the pack with the 14, 15 and 16 pound springs. I would recommend the 3 pack to find the weight you like. Once you determine which weight you prefer if they aren't close enough to identical to suit you do as OLG suggested and call Wolff and request a pair of that weight from the same lot. Ruger will never recommend a lighter spring for two reasons, liability, and reliability. Liability because they have no way of knowing the skill level of the person they are talking to and have to protect the company. And the reliability after you swap springs will depend on the particular guns internals. My New Models will pop CCI primers with a 14LB spring but internal parts have been slicked up. A stock gun with just a spring swap might not. That's why the 3 pack and the need to test in your specific application.

 

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I talked with Dwayne, the Guru at Ruger.  He said that New Vaqueros do not all have the same grip frames, but they do all have the same internal parts and mechanisms, even when there may be subtle differences in the peripheral dimensions of the grip frames. So, Dwayne said that all New Vaquero springs should be the same, if the revolver is categorized as a New Vaquero model.  So, the New Vaquero springs at Wolff should fit my model.  If I were going to order springs though, I would provide Wolff, Power Custom, Longhunter, or whomever...with my specific grip frame designation before ordering, just to be sure.  

 

On another note, lets say you're interested in new grips for your New Vaquero, the online standardized designation of XR-3 for the New Vaquero isn't alway accurate.  Dwayne said that it's likely that if you order new grips based on the generalities you read on the web about New Vaqueros, they may not fit without needing to be altered because not all New Vaquero grip frames have the same peripheral dimensions.  Dwayne said that Altamont makes all of Ruger's grips, and if you want new grips, you should provide them with the exact grip frame part number, they can cross reference it, and you'll be sure to get grips that fit properly.  

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19 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Let's just Get through the Winter before we get ta dealing with Spring Tensions >>>>>>>>

Why borrow troubles from the season yet to come ????

Merry Christmas .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

Let's just Get through the Winter before we get ta dealing with Spring Tensions >>>>>>>>

Why?  We ain't had a good cuss fight this winter.

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On 11/22/2019 at 10:08 AM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Let's just Get through the Winter before we get ta dealing with Spring Tensions >>>>>>>>

Why borrow troubles from the season yet to come ????

Merry Christmas .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

LOL! "Spring," as in "Primavera," as in the season of "Spring"...pretty clever.

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On 11/22/2019 at 11:08 AM, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Let's just Get through the Winter before we get ta dealing with Spring Tensions >>>>>>>>

Why borrow troubles from the season yet to come ????

Merry Christmas .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

Here in Tennessee, we would say that Jabez is  'A Caution'..... :lol:

 

..........Widder

 

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If it helps, my pull weights are...

Hammer pull 5lbs

Trigger pull 2.5lbs

 

Could be, you're thinking too much about the springs and how it relates to "felt pull".

The more polishing, etc you have done on the inside, the lighter weight springs you can reliably use. For instance, when I started out I used the z13 13lb springs. I loved them, and still think they're great.

    After a while I increased my hammer spring weight. The difference in "felt pull" was almost not noticeable to me but gave me a faster cycle time. The reason for that is, after all those cycles in both practice and matches you build up the correct muscles. The muscles are stronger, so it's not a strain like it was. It's the same with lifting weights, running, or any other kind of conditioning.

    The Hammer and trigger do work as a fulcrum. With a factory hammer spring of 24lbs you don't have to pull with 24lb of force to get the hammer back. I don't have a factory revolver to measure right now to tell you the percentage it could equal, but I've had some in the 10+lb range. Just for arguments sake, say it is 12lb felt weight with the 24lb spring. That would be a 50% decrease. That percentage let off will increase depending on how much "slicking up" and "lightening" you do on the internals. It takes less force to move something lighter and it takes less force to move something with a lower friction.

Just my .02

 

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