Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Marshal Hangtree

Where does our membership money go?

Recommended Posts

If you read the thread, it's not really about the dollar value, it's about the lack of communication, information sharing, and accountability from the Association..

Everyone want to be heard.

Everyone wants to help grow the Association.

Everyone would pay more if they just would be heard, acknowledged, and informed.

Edited by T-Square

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, T-Square said:

If you read the thread, it's not really about the dollar value, it's about the lack of communication, information sharing, and accountability form the Association..

Everyone want to be heard.

Everyone wants to help grow the Association.

Everyone would pay more if they just would be heard, acknowledged, and informed.

No, they wouldn’t pay more They’d be grousing about it just the same. There are ways to be heard just give SASS a call and share your concerns, very easy to do.

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I might add "Everyone's glass is at least half full"

Sarcasm added by the author for humor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Seems like the two mentioned issues come up on a regular basis. How to grow membership about this time every year, and what do I get for my dues about every other year.

It's far easier to lose numbers as people age, lose interest ( sometimes because  of the need for speed stages), have family interests ( grandson's baseball for me) take priority, etc.. than it is to attract new shooters. While we love this, not everyone wants to play. Some that are interested get sticker shock, some that would shoot don't because the matches on Sundays interfere with church.

 

What we need to do is put something in the drinking water that turns people into CAS'ers, and all have rich uncles leave us millions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 

So, our fees go to a ranch in NM that most members, myself included, will never get to see, and "operating costs" that are not published?  Founders Ranch is a member-only range that you have to pay an additional $55 a year for plus $10 fee for each days use.  Our membership package mentions nothing about Founders Ranch.

If you are a SASS member you are automatically a Founders Ranch member.  The non-cowboy members of both the rifle/pistol range and the sporting clays range generate revenue to maintain and improve the facilities. 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A "non-profit" organization such as SASS only has to report its financials to the IRS. And while a non-profit they have to make a profit to keep the business floating. Profit is used for investing in the company for improvements, equipment replacements etc. They can still pay competitive salaries, benefits and bonus's. Otherwise why would Misty and the others work for SASS. As a non-profit they are not a charity. Non-profit can be defined as an organization or business who's mission is to promote something, in this case national competitive shooting with a historical element, that benefits the community. Thats how our club got its non-profit status with the Fed's and the State.

 

They do not have to publish their financials as a public document for anyone to view. If they did you would see line items not detail. As in Labor $xxx,xxx. Not Misty's salary is $12.59.

 

SO when those who make a statement, 'we need better communication and transparency', what are you looking for? Remember this isn't a governmental organization or a publicly held company. It's still a privately owned business.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Isn't it part of the charter for or TGs to be that communication layer?

  • Communicate the Cowboy Action Shooting story locally/regionally to further the growth of the game
     
  • Represent and support SASS, its philosophy, and its purpose to club members

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

 

They do not have to publish their financials as a public document for anyone to view. If they did you would see line items not detail. As in Labor $xxx,xxx. Not Misty's salary is $12.59.

 

SO when those who make a statement, 'we need better communication and transparency', what are you looking for? Remember this isn't a governmental organization or a publicly held company. It's still a privately owned business.

I will leave it to counsel to describe what MUST be disclosed.

You don't need me to tell ya how to run the association (I have some experience).

Dave Ramsey says " if you want to be married 50 years, do what married for 50 year people do" and "if you want to be wealthy, then do what wealthy people do".

Find out what successful associations do - and do it. Based on the current membership trends, it doesn't seem to be working now. The website says we have 90k active members, the thread above says 16k.

Just to stir the pot, one round of golf will buy me three years of membership.

Good luck,

Edited by T-Square

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am part of two non-profit companies and one ESOP. I worked with council to form all 3. Again all non-profits are not charities. They do not have to publish financials. That seems to be the sticking point with those who think SASS needs to communicate better. What other organizations do you pay into and do they publish their financials to the members?

28,000 +/- paying members at $65 is $1,820,000 gross revenue. Not much to run an international organizations, pay rent, salaries, benefits, and publish the Chronical.

Ike

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahhhh the good old SASS wire.

  • Like 4
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shotgun Clay said:

If you are a SASS member you are automatically a Founders Ranch member.  The non-cowboy members of both the rifle/pistol range and the sporting clays range generate revenue to maintain and improve the facilities. 

 

Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first time I've heard that. I am very correctable on this, but I seem to remember when they bought FR, they offered very expensive memberships. The only thing this got you was a parking space closer to the range. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Typical thread. We start off with where's my money go and yet it always seems to be about people wanting to know where's my $65 going. The underlying unspoken narrative is they think SASS is ripping them off and pocketing their money for personal gain.

 

$65 is nothing compared to what you get from SASS.

Ike

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Ahhhh the good old SASS wire.

 

'insert photo of eating popcorn here'

Edited by Cemetery
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

And don't forget the exorbitant salary PaleWolf is hauling down .........

 

6 hours ago, Captain Clark said:

That explains it all:lol:

 

5 hours ago, Max Payne said:

...

. And, you're right, whoever said it, PaleWolf is probably getting too much money & getting rich with our dues!

 

:P

 

Just to clear up ANY misconceptions:

Quote

The ROC is a volunteer consultant board within SASS.  ROC members are selected and appointed by the SASS Board of Directors to work with and under the direct supervision and authorization of the board. 

RANGE OPERATIONS MANAGEMENT (page 5)

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
add comment

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

 

:P

With all the Crap he puts up with he's under Paid. 

 

We pay approximately -18 cents a day for membership!!!

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I tell you pilgrims. I joined in 1988 and pay my dues every year since. Have not been to End of Trail in N.M. but did so when it was in California. Due to high elevation & my COPD now I have slowed down and can not handle elevation in N.M.

Lots of good times shooting, friends, & what ever. As long as I'm kicking I'll send my dues in. They have good folks handling The SASS so that's all that matters to me.

When I call for any reason I am treated very well by professional folks there. That's all I got to say. I did enjoy getting the Chronicle every year along with some other stuff including rule books from the past. One thing I did not like was that the old SASS decal got put out to pasture. I really enjoyed getting that old decal.

Well see you all on the range some where in time my friends. Take care & God Bless you all & all the SASS staff & the old Wild Bunch God Bless them.

 

Jackrabbit Joe  #414

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Assassin said:

And, those numbers are from over 4 years back. Things are definately not trending up. Probably 20% less now. My wife decided not to renew after 19 years, said she didn't see the value in it. 

 

5 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said:

My number were off. I found this.

Member Stats (as of 8.25.2015)
Membership Type- Description- Total #
Annual – Active Annual, renewing annually members: 19867
Corporate- Corporate members:7
Endowment- Non- renewable, no revenue impact:97
Life- Non-renewable, no revenue impact: 7568
Patron- Non- renewable, no revenue impact: 53
Military- Membership “on hold” while on deployment: 9
Inactive- Inactive members: 67750
Invalid- SASS #’s marked as invalid; skipped #’s that were not issued:41
None- “None” is a classification for members who do not want to be contacted by SASS:3328
Deceased- Deceased SASS members (upon notification to SASS HQ, the members profile type is marked as deceased:1768
Unknown- Variance in un-issued SASS numbers:2722

Thanks for doing the research and sharing.  I don't think any of us are realistically considering stopping paying of dues and dropping out, so the entire discussion is pretty academic.   We kinda need some kind of overarching, unifying organization to make the sport consistent across the landscape.  The individualized share of cost for doing that is pretty reasonable. 

 

But the OP does pose a good question.   If my math is correct, 19, 000 annual dues paying members (minus the 20% reduction cited by Assassin-- so closer to 15,000) should generate about 15k x $65 or just under $1M per year, which would pay about 20  50K salaries.  Subtract from that the costs of the services described elsewhere in this thread and you have an idea of the financial picture.  Also remember that the SASS organization sponsors state and regional events with donations of raffle prizes, etc.  

All of that represents expenditures out of that $1M.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

$65 is nothing compared to what you get from SASS.

Ike

 

Couldn't agree with this sentiment more.

 

SASS membership: $65/year or $800 for life.

 

The great memories and friends I have made over the last 11 years... priceless.

 

And more, much more to look forward to.

 

:D

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

After re-reading my original post, I realize that the tone would give the impression that I don't think our dues are worth it.  That was not my original intent, so please allow me to clarify. 

 

Occasionally, the topic re-emerges of how to grow the sport, and the subject invariably turns to the fact that we need more promotion.  I was primarily curious as to how much of the SASS budget goes toward promotion / advertising.  I'm not seeking an exact dollar figure, I'm just wondering how much "product promotion" plays into the overall budget of SASS.  Since SASS rules prohibit corporate advertising in the means of logo's, etc., I can see how corporations such as Winchester and Colt would not be interested in promoting SASS.  I guess the promotion of our sport is pretty much left up to the members via word of mouth, personal appearances at gun shows and rodeo's, etc.

 

I hope I have clarified my original questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

A "non-profit" organization such as SASS only has to report its financials to the IRS. And while a non-profit they have to make a profit to keep the business floating. Profit is used for investing in the company for improvements, equipment replacements etc. They can still pay competitive salaries, benefits and bonus's. Otherwise why would Misty and the others work for SASS. As a non-profit they are not a charity. Non-profit can be defined as an organization or business who's mission is to promote something, in this case national competitive shooting with a historical element, that benefits the community. Thats how our club got its non-profit status with the Fed's and the State.

 

They do not have to publish their financials as a public document for anyone to view. If they did you would see line items not detail. As in Labor $xxx,xxx. Not Misty's salary is $12.59.

 

SO when those who make a statement, 'we need better communication and transparency', what are you looking for? Remember this isn't a governmental organization or a publicly held company. It's still a privately owned business.

SASS is a non-profit? I didn't know that!:o

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When I go to the Dr office I always read the New Mexico state Magazine.I have never seen SASS advertised in the Magazine.

Has anyone seen SASS advertised in their State Magazine.Need to figure how to do this.There is a section where they show whats happening that month.

Maybe each club could show their monthly shoots.

                                                                                                                                                Largo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

65.jpg

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, T-Square said:

I might add "Everyone's glass is at least half full"

Sarcasm added by the author for humor.

Mine is plumb full. Part of it might be filled with air, but it's full nonetheless.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, heck! I sure get tired of the folks that are so darn worried about getting their moneys worth for a measly $65 a year membership fee. Good grief! I don't understand how SASS maintains operations with such a small individual fee. My thanks to SASS and the staff. 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

WAAYYY too much thinkin! Let's get out and shoot somethin! :D

Shoot AT somethin, at least. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Yusta B. said:

And don't forget the exorbitant salary Pale Wolf is hauling down .........

 

I don't know what or if Pale Wolf is hauling down, but 12 years ago, one of the SASS boys/workers told me he was paid $50K a year. 

  • Haha 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, Marshal Chance Morgun said:

 

Not saying you're wrong, but this is the first time I've heard that. I am very correctable on this, but I seem to remember when they bought FR, they offered very expensive memberships. The only thing this got you was a parking space closer to the range. 

I cannot speak to that, but FR only opened to shooters other than SASS (particularly during EOT) in 2011 with the beginnings of the sporting clays area. 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, largo casey #19191 said:

When I go to the Dr office I always read the New Mexico state Magazine.I have never seen SASS advertised in the Magazine.

Has anyone seen SASS advertised in their State Magazine.Need to figure how to do this.There is a section where they show whats happening that month.

Maybe each club could show their monthly shoots.

                                                                                                                                                Largo

Been in NM about 30 years and have never seen the New Mexico state magazine. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Check it out Clay. I believe each state has they're own Magazine.

                                                                                                                           Largo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Shotgun Clay said:

Been in NM about 30 years and have never seen the New Mexico state magazine. 

I have seen it often.  My favorite feature is One of our 50 is missing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Palo Verde, SASS # 56522 said:

 

I don't know what or if Pale Wolf is hauling down, but 12 years ago, one of the SASS boys/workers told me he was paid $50K a year. 

 

You do know that PaleWolf and all the members of the ROC are volunteers right?  They do this for the love of the game, and sometimes someone says. "Thank you".

  • Thanks 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Imagine how much of our dues are spent on the yearly budget line item for PWBs “ Blue Ink” supply:lol:

 

Just the volume of WTC corrections he has to post is astounding!

Guess some folks should.... RT*M;)


 

 

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

$65 just barely fills my car with gas in California. It will just cover the cost of dining out for two at a decent restaurant. Ain't nobody getting rich off of this. And since my retirement from the ROC I haven't received even one retirement check.... it was and is done for the Love of the Game. SASS is one of the best values in entertainment that I have ever seen. Thousands of volunteer hours are donated to SASS every year around the country because of the joy derived from being a part of the CAS Family. No, everything is not done the way I would like to see it done, but it is being done by those that have a much better grasp of the Big Picture. It is to everyone's best interest to strongly support SASS. If clubs decided to go it on their own, it might work for a while, but the fact is, those that don't directly support SASS are just riding the coat tails of those who do. Running SASS is indeed a business, and all businesses have salaries to pay and other expenses. This thread may be well intended, but IMO it sounds like a part of the Democratic agenda.

 

Snakebite  

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

After re-reading my original post, I realize that the tone would give the impression that I don't think our dues are worth it.  That was not my original intent, so please allow me to clarify. 

 

Occasionally, the topic re-emerges of how to grow the sport, and the subject invariably turns to the fact that we need more promotion.  I was primarily curious as to how much of the SASS budget goes toward promotion / advertising.  I'm not seeking an exact dollar figure, I'm just wondering how much "product promotion" plays into the overall budget of SASS.  Since SASS rules prohibit corporate advertising in the means of logo's, etc., I can see how corporations such as Winchester and Colt would not be interested in promoting SASS.  I guess the promotion of our sport is pretty much left up to the members via word of mouth, personal appearances at gun shows and rodeo's, etc.

 

I hope I have clarified my original questions.

 

Ahh, the curse of email. You can't see or hear the message so it's hard to get a good read on the messenger. You can't hear tone or voice inflection, see facial expressions, gestures, etc.

 

I took it as a rational question. I figured you were looking to see if SASS spent 10% on promotions/marketing, could they increase it to maybe 20%? I didn't think you were looking at a line by line breakdown of spending, salaries, etc.

 

Your question did generate feedback and got some ideas to explore out for consideration.

 

Hopefully some of these ideas will help SASS grow.

5 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

 

 

Edited by Lawdog Dago Dom
dual post

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.