Marshal Hangtree Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 This is partially inspired by the current thread of how to best grow our sport/hobby. In our initial start-up membership, for $75 we get a welcome letter, a SASS number, a very inexpensive badge, and get our alias listed in a log. After that, subsequent years are $65. I keep the same SASS number and cheap badge, and I'm pretty sure nobody else will want my alias. Just what do we get for our hard earned dollars from SASS after the initial year? The Cowboy Chronicle is free on line to be viewed by anybody, so that's not much of a return. Where does our money go? Has anyone ever seen a published accounting of where our dues money gets spent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 It pays for Founders Ranch and SASS operating costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hangtree Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: It pays for Founders Ranch and SASS operating costs. So, our fees go to a ranch in NM that most members, myself included, will never get to see, and "operating costs" that are not published? Founders Ranch is a member-only range that you have to pay an additional $55 a year for plus $10 fee for each days use. Our membership package mentions nothing about Founders Ranch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Just now, Marshal Hangtree said: So, our fees go to a ranch in NM that most members, myself included, will never get to see, and "operating costs" that are not published? Founders Ranch is a member-only range that you have to pay an additional $55 a year for plus $10 fee for each days use. Our membership package mentions nothing about Founders Ranch. Yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Hmmm... the warm fuzzy feeling of "belonging" isn't enough? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hangtree Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 5 minutes ago, Griff said: Hmmm... the warm fuzzy feeling of "belonging" isn't enough? If you'll pay my renewal fee, Griff, I'll feel even warmer and fuzzier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The opportunity to shoot State or above matches. Keeps the body of cowboy action and it's uniformed rules in place for all involved clubs. It me. If you want to drink the milk. You should help pay for the cow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Doesn't seem to be an exorbitant amount. We're very fortunate to have this organization to keep our sport going. I'm sure it's just as challenging to manage cash flow & keep the biz going as it is any other business. Please insert, "Pleases" & "Thank-you's" where appropriate in my next statement, I don't think it's our business to see an accounting of how the money is spent. If it fees good, do it. If it doesn't feel good, maybe take up bowling or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Pards, Founders Ranch is mostly, if not completely, being paid for by EOT receipts and other events held there almost all year long. Membership funds go to running the organization. AFAIK. Membership funds I have contributed go to my most favorite sporting-entertainment organization around. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 1 hour ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: It pays for Founders Ranch and SASS operating costs. SASS operating costs yes, Founders Ranch not so much. The ranch is it’s own profit center and SASS leases EOT dates from it. They do not use membership fees to support the ranch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: SASS operating costs yes, Founders Ranch not so much. The ranch is it’s own profit center and SASS leases EOT dates from it. They do not use membership fees to support the ranch. I guess I should say they paid for FR with membership fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hangtree Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 8 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: SASS operating costs yes, Founders Ranch not so much. The ranch is it’s own profit center and SASS leases EOT dates from it. They do not use membership fees to support the ranch. Thanks, Yul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Marshal Hangtree said: This is partially inspired by the current thread of how to best grow our sport/hobby. In our initial start-up membership, for $75 we get a welcome letter, a SASS number, a very inexpensive badge, and get our alias listed in a log. After that, subsequent years are $65. I keep the same SASS number and cheap badge, and I'm pretty sure nobody else will want my alias. Just what do we get for our hard earned dollars from SASS after the initial year? The Cowboy Chronicle is free on line to be viewed by anybody, so that's not much of a return. Where does our money go? Has anyone ever seen a published accounting of where our dues money gets spent? Well for one thing, the servers, technicians and software that keeps the SASS Wire running. For another, the staff that handles all the day to day operations, keeps track of all the alias' so that there's no duplication, who get those SASS badges and Regulator badges made. The staff that publishes the many Handbooks, SHB, RO courses, WB HB, WB RO courses, Cowboy Clays, multiple translations, that the ROC works so diligently on throughout the year. The ones who represent SASS at many gun shows and gatherings across the country, the same ladies that haul steel so folks can shoot EoT. The staff that makes the Chronicle that everybody can see... it doesn't layout and publish itself. The staff that battles local politicians and disgruntled neighbors that want to close down Founders Ranch. The ones who work tirelessly behind the scenes keeping an organization going, without much thanks from it's members... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: I guess I should say they paid for FR with membership fees. I’m not sure they did with general membership fees. I believe they raised funds for the ranch through selling Founders Ranch Memberships. Maybe Misty will chime in to clear this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 12 minutes ago, Yul Lose said: I’m not sure they did with general membership fees. I believe they raised funds for the ranch through selling Founders Ranch Memberships. Maybe Misty will chime in to clear this up. I get your point. I gladly pay my $65 a year because I enjoy competing at state level and above matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I would bet that the founders take the profits and divide them amongst themselves. I would further bet that SASS doesn't make any money to speak of after paying employees and insurance etc. Still not a nonprofit as far as I understand. Annual membership is about what I pay for a tank of gas. Then again I have been a life member since 2004 so : pfttt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 52 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: I guess I should say they paid for FR with membership fees. Well, nope. Ranch was paid for, in largest part, with mortgages taken out by some of the principals. (Yeah, ouch) Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 3 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said: Well, nope. Ranch was paid for, in largest part, with mortgages taken out by some of the principals. (Yeah, ouch) Good luck, GJ Makes no difference to me. SASS is a privately held business and their business is just that, their business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eyesa Horg Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 If you are lucky in the raffles at State and above shoots you might win a SASS gift cert. which will pay most of your dues. So certainly some of the money goes to those Gift Certificates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Hangtree Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 47 minutes ago, McCandless said: Well for one thing, the servers, technicians and software that keeps the SASS Wire running. For another, the staff that handles all the day to day operations, keeps track of all the alias' so that there's no duplication, who get those SASS badges and Regulator badges made. The staff that publishes the many Handbooks, SHB, RO courses, WB HB, WB RO courses, Cowboy Clays, multiple translations, that the ROC works so diligently on throughout the year. The ones who represent SASS at many gun shows and gatherings across the country, the same ladies that haul steel so folks can shoot EoT. The staff that makes the Chronicle that everybody can see... it doesn't layout and publish itself. The staff that battles local politicians and disgruntled neighbors that want to close down Founders Ranch. The ones who work tirelessly behind the scenes keeping an organization going, without much thanks from it's members... Thanks, McCandless. That list encompasses a lot of details I hadn't thought about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Slim SASS #24733 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I pay 2 adult and 2 Junior memberships every year. Next year it will be 3 adult and 1 Junior membership. Worth every penny to be able to shoot with my family and friends. And I'm a cheap Scotsman, too. I figure all those Starbuck's coffee's that I will NEVER buy pay for my memberships, and then some. And I wish I could fill the tank on my truck for 65.00, those days are way behind me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Well to be fair Slim, the rear tank on my truck doesn't work so I can only put about 18 gallons in it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 And don't forget the exorbitant salary Pale Wolf is hauling down ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Just for curiosity, how many active (annual dues paying--excluding life nemberships) members are there in SASS today? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Clark Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 21 minutes ago, Yusta B. said: And don't forget the exorbitant salary Pale Wolf is hauling down ......... That explains it all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 It’s a business! It’s not on the stock exchange, it’s not non-profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 38 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: Just for curiosity, how many active (annual dues paying--excluding life nemberships) members are there in SASS today? Around 33,000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Payne Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Good healthy dialog. We're happy with the way things are run. We're glad someone has stepped up & makes it happen. We're glad we individually don't have to worry daily with the cash flow. We're happy somebody is supporting the sport we all love. And, you're right, whoever said it, Pale Wolf is probably getting too much money & getting rich with our dues! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 34 minutes ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: Around 33,000 Where did you get that number? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 15 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said: Where did you get that number? Misty posted something a while ago should be in the archives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 My number were off. I found this. Member Stats (as of 8.25.2015) Membership Type- Description- Total # Annual – Active Annual, renewing annually members: 19867 Corporate- Corporate members:7 Endowment- Non- renewable, no revenue impact:97 Life- Non-renewable, no revenue impact: 7568 Patron- Non- renewable, no revenue impact: 53 Military- Membership “on hold” while on deployment: 9 Inactive- Inactive members: 67750 Invalid- SASS #’s marked as invalid; skipped #’s that were not issued:41 None- “None” is a classification for members who do not want to be contacted by SASS:3328 Deceased- Deceased SASS members (upon notification to SASS HQ, the members profile type is marked as deceased:1768 Unknown- Variance in un-issued SASS numbers:2722 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 And, those numbers are from over 4 years back. Things are definately not trending up. Probably 20% less now. My wife decided not to renew after 19 years, said she didn't see the value in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 3 hours ago, John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 said: I get your point. I gladly pay my $65 a year because I enjoy competing at state level and above matches. And that you can take as a business expense! At least you should if you aren’t. As are all the expenses competing. Please don’t get me wrong, envious you are in a business where you can. But don’t equate what you pay to someone who is a regular member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimble Fingers SASS# 25439 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 The last time, a long time ago I got into trouble but I will be short and sweet and hopefully won’t ruffle to many feathers. This is not a privately owned, for profit business, which could claim little or no transparency. It is not a non-profit charitable organization either. It is supposedly a non-profit club with certain rules and regulations including the reporting to the IRS the activity on certain forms specifically for its type of entity. But I believe there are certain rules like a condo association that it has to live by and answer to. I don’t know what those are in California. But I have come to realize that like the saying goes there is no fighting “City Hall”, so either accept the powers that be or don’t but you won’t change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Church Key, SASS # 33713 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I pay dues and compete in SASS, IDPA, ASI, GSSF, ATA, NRA, and Leetown IWLA. Total annual cost for dues is $310 or about $25 a month. My weekly trap shell cost is more than that. Don't even want to get into the ammo cost for all the other shooting activities or almost worse, the travel cost for these activities. Am retired and have the time to do what I like. Don't worry about the organizations that allow me to do my thing. Just glad they exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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