Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Have you, or know someone that, in "heat of battle (stage)", or whatever the reason, fired another round on squib round in barrel (only speaking of cowboy load and more specifically a 38 coated bullet)? I'm sure both bullets came out, but what is generally the damage, ring, bulge, both? (yes, I know, maybe some damaged pride ) Did it affect accuracy? Seems to me the incident would not be extremely rare in our game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watab kid Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 yup - generally the damage is a bulge-ring in the barrel , it was not an uncommon thing back in the day , they often shoot just fine , but only you can answer that with yours , this is a serious failure and there have been more catastrophic results , nothing to take lightly - best to stop if you think you had one and always think safety first , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Bullet touching the squib in the chamber of the rifle shouldn't be any problem. If it's a 38 105 it's like shooting a 210 grain bullet, little pressure increase no ring in barrel. Yes, I've done it without any damage. Probably done it in pistols, using old model Rugers, they're hell for stout, no rings in my barrels. Wouldn't try it with Uberti. Freedom Arms should handle it. Big bore guns may come apart, not as much meat in the barrels. Haven't seen any guns blow up recently due to detonation, that's what they thought it was back in the day. Folks are shooting faster than ever, you'd think it would be more common along with squibs and blown up barrels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 The lighter the second load, and closer the squib was to the chamber, the less likely to ring barrel. (Because the second bullet has less energy the closer to the chamber it runs into the squib slug) Sometimes, there will be no noticeable barrel damage. Any more, as light as folks are loading, I'd say barrel damage only occurs 20% of the time a round is fired into a squib, especially in revolvers where the barrel gap will vent pressure somewhat. Still, every safeguard is beneficial to prevent having any more squibs. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Ron Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Howdy, Ive seen a Blackhawk barrel with about 10 slugs in it. Ruger makes one stout firearm. Best CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Assassin said: Bullet touching the squib in the chamber of the rifle shouldn't be any problem. If it's a 38 105 it's like shooting a 210 grain bullet, little pressure increase no ring in barrel. Yes, I've done it without any damage. Probably done it in pistols, using old model Rugers, they're hell for stout, no rings in my barrels. Wouldn't try it with Uberti. Freedom Arms should handle it. Big bore guns may come apart, not as much meat in the barrels. Haven't seen any guns blow up recently due to detonation, that's what they thought it was back in the day. Folks are shooting faster than ever, you'd think it would be more common along with squibs and blown up barrels. Yep, did it once with one of my FA Model 97s (38). Front sight came off but barrel was fine. Guess the sudden change in harmonics send the front blade flying. This incident was Uberti 73 with 125 gr coated bullets. "Ring" can be felt with patch at about 7 inches from muzzle. I feel certain gun is safe to fire. Tests will prove if any accuracy was affected. I have felt this type of " barrel ring" in a 73 before at about same place, and that rifle shot plenty accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have 3 rings in my marlin from squibs,, the action is so tight I never hear the squib,, and figure I kicked out a round... 38 125 non coated no change in accuracy rings are anywhere from maybe 12" out to nearly the end of the barrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Still hand Bill Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Did it on a 445 Dan Wesson with 44 special loads. Between the gap bleeding pressure and the short rounds no damage was done. root cause was a slow powder (blue dot) and a long chamber didn’t create enough pressure for consistent ignition. Rounds were fine in a 44 special revolver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 14 minutes ago, Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 said: I have 3 rings in my marlin from squibs,, the action is so tight I never hear the squib,, and figure I kicked out a round... 38 125 non coated no change in accuracy rings are anywhere from maybe 12" out to nearly the end of the barrel We be special CC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I stuck 3 32-20 rounds in a 73 barrel. My gunsmith said bad things about me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 10 minutes ago, Noz said: I stuck 3 32-20 rounds in a 73 barrel. My gunsmith said bad things about me. A friend stuck three. 357 mag. factory loads in my S&W 686 6" barrel once with no rings or evidence of damage. I had to chuck the gun in the mill, using fixturing compound, and drill/tap the three full jacketed bullets to remove them, but gun and accuracy were unchanged. Very tough gun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I had 2 squibs in a Marlin 94 shooting 125gr lubed bullets. One ring-bulge was about halfway and one was about 2 inches or so from the muzzle. Didn't seem to have any effect on the accuracy. Also had 5 stick in an M60 machine gun but that's another story. Blackfoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roscoe Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I posted about concern for occurrences of a squib when top shooters go so fast and was promptly bullied for questioning the care with which they prepare their ammo and their intimate feel and control of the gun. I guess everyone else is not worthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Had it happen a few years ago with a Uberti Rem Outlaw 7.5". Thought it was a light load and no one said a word. The second round hit the target and I thought all was ok until I couldn't cock it again. On closer inspection at ULT, ejector housing had come loose and closer inspection (later at home) revealed a split about 1 1/2" long on the bottom of the barrel (under the housing). Couldn't get a barrel (with the right threads, yes they changed them) for a very long time and gunsmith said the work involved to re-clock the barrel, since it was a take-off from another gun, would not be worth the $$. It's a nice wall hanger now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rattlesnake Slim Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I have a Browning 92 that I bought from a guy who was a former national champion in the 90's. He shot full loads of BP and the barrel has three distinct bulges (him, not me) . The action on this 20 year old gun is still smooth and tight, and it is still a tack driver with the proper loads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 I know a guy that stuck 5 round balls in the barrel of a ROA. Didn't faze it a bit -- but a real bear to drive them out. Each one had a cute little crater in it - except the last one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isom Dart, SASS#8096 Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Happened to me once in the mid 2000's. In a '73 with b/p in 38-40. I didn't even notice , at the ULT was told about the bulge in my barrel. Shot it for about 3 mos. , ordered another barrel. 10 mos. later it gets here, smith changes barrel , everything's good. Says hey, you've got about 18in. left behind the bulge. Hmmmmm short rifle coming up. Order one in 44-40 , swap barrels, couple of dovetails and I've got a short rifle in 38-40. I'm happy! Isom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowdy Ranger Rick Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Yep, several years ago....38 Marlin. I was shooting rifle targets, running real good 1st 4 targets, then thought how did I miss that 5th target, finished string. Overheard spotters and TO discussing seeing no miss but they also heard or saw no hit. Was given one miss. At my cart I felt a bulge about 10" from end of barrel. Rifle still runs good, and I've improved my reloading quality control. RRR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Isom Dart, SASS#8096 said: Happened to me once in the mid 2000's. In a '73 with b/p in 38-40. I didn't even notice , at the ULT was told about the bulge in my barrel. Shot it for about 3 mos. , ordered another barrel. 10 mos. later it gets here, smith changes barrel , everything's good. Says hey, you've got about 18in. left behind the bulge. Hmmmmm short rifle coming up. Order one in 44-40 , swap barrels, couple of dovetails and I've got a short rifle in 38-40. I'm happy! Isom Good outcome for sure. New barrel very $$? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 18, 2019 Author Share Posted November 18, 2019 UPDATE........I have a small round swinger of about 4.25" at 22-25 steps and since i have not been much of a "paper puncher" in many years, this is my accuracy target for CAS guns. I nailed it consistently off rest with 105s, 125s, and 135s. Can't remember rifle being any more accurate before so pleased. I will get a reminder each time I clean however, feeling that step in barrel with patch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 Gain Twist barrel comes to mind. A ring or bulge has little to do with accuracy at our distances. Consider it R&D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Brules Posted November 18, 2019 Share Posted November 18, 2019 To the best of my knowledge, I have been able to feel every squib round I’ve ever fired. I shoot .38, so I ordered (the minimum) a 6-foot piece of 11/32” brass rod from an industrial supply house: McMaster Carr Supply Co. Santa Fe Springs, CA (562) 692-5911 The 11/32” rod is easily cut into shorter lengths, and the ends rounded with a file. These squib rods can be invaluable. (You can order commercially made squib rods from Brownell’s or other such places.) I keep a long rod, and a short rod in my cart. BUT, a short 12” rod might serve all but the worst cases (2 or more slugs in the barrel), just by repeatedly dropping it down the barrel to bump out the squib slugs. Yes, I know a 5/16” diameter rod might serve just as well, but it’s a loose fit. That may or may not make a difference to you. You can do the math for other calibers....or use the smaller rod in the larger caliber barrels (I would not). Cat Brules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 Yes, I have a nice squib rod. NotSoSlim used to make some real nice ones. Shooting the squib out of barrel was not in the plan, it just happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusty Devil Dale Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Squibs are always a scary frustration. I had one yesterday at our monthly match. You have to have a lot of trust in the TO who tells you it came out and to proceed, if you did not see the projectile yourself. It seems that no matter how much care is exercised in loading, and/or no matter how carefully a powder check is adjusted, (and even in factory loaded ammo) a squib seems to sneak through and show up once or twice a year. For all the thousands of rounds that we shoot, the occurrence rate is very small, and it lulls us into a sense of false confidence. But all squibs need to treated as the serious safety matter that they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 19, 2019 Author Share Posted November 19, 2019 8 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said: Squibs are always a scary frustration. I had one yesterday at our monthly match. You have to have a lot of trust in the TO who tells you it came out and to proceed, if you did not see the projectile yourself. It seems that no matter how much care is exercised in loading, and/or no matter how carefully a powder check is adjusted, (and even in factory loaded ammo) a squib seems to sneak through and show up once or twice a year. For all the thousands of rounds that we shoot, the occurrence rate is very small, and it lulls us into a sense of false confidence. But all squibs need to treated as the serious safety matter that they are. Much truth here Dale. I have high management for rifle rounds much because I do not want Sassy to experience a jam or squib in rifle. Not only designated color of bullet, I chamber gauge and visual rounds for splits. Perhaps I put to much trust in my Dillon 1050 system as for as throwing precise powder amounts, but the fact we use such a small amount of powder maybe increases odds of a rare squib. Whether the squib was from distraction while loading and/or a undetected split, one does occur sometimes, fortunately not often. The squib incident was not only mishap of match for me on day two in regards to loading and I am thankful neither was in the hands of Sassy. Third stage of day I had a case split so bad that the extractor would not remove it resulting in a serious rifle jam costing me six rounds and time. Second stage later, the squib. So much for my chamber gauging and visual. Perhaps fault, other than bad visual detection and/or distraction in loading. was that I knowingly used some old brass that had been loaded many times. Brass was very used and not visually seeing the appearance of a split does not mean it is going to be a good round to fire. So, I think here is a lesson to be learned, "when a batch of brass is known to have been used 20-30 times, and especially detecting small splits, toss it . The price payed for saving it may come back to haunt you". As to shooting out squib, it can easily happen in the hands of a veteran shooter such as myself (shooting competitively for 40+ years). The shot was certainly all on me, TO called it but I suppose my desire to finish stage in style after jam incident had me to focused to react to his voice. No doubt, I did finish the stage "in style". The slight bulge felt with patch when cleaning barrel will be a long time reminder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Not me, but I once had an idiot bring a '92 in 38/357 into the shop. New gun, couldn't get to hit "the paper." Wanted to fix the sights. Had a heck of a time getting the 6 125Gr bullets out of the barrel. Stuck nose to tail. No bulge. We had a talk about his reloads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isom Dart, SASS#8096 Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 I think it was about $200.00 at the time. Had a time putting the forearm on, smithy wondered why he had to cut another dovetail for the hanger for the forearm cap, they wouldn't line up . It was shorter. Told him to cut the shorter one and just put a filler in the old one and cold blue it. Found out later that "Short Rifle" forearms are shorter than "Rifle" forearms. Learn something new everyday. Isom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk James Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Take a kitchen funnel and place the ammo round in the small end of the funnel and shake it. Even with my poor hearing I can tell if ;there is powder. That with a powder check from Dillon and it is hard to have a squib. The three of us has most likely shot around 200,000 rounds plus with one or two squibs in the nine years we have been shooting. Only one in a monthly match. We have had light loads but enough powder to hit the target. Hope this helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator Posted November 20, 2019 Author Share Posted November 20, 2019 3 hours ago, Kirk James said: Take a kitchen funnel and place the ammo round in the small end of the funnel and shake it. Even with my poor hearing I can tell if ;there is powder. That with a powder check from Dillon and it is hard to have a squib. The three of us has most likely shot around 200,000 rounds plus with one or two squibs in the nine years we have been shooting. Only one in a monthly match. We have had light loads but enough powder to hit the target. Hope this helps. I need to try that trick. I believe this was my first rifle squib in match in my 20 years so pretty good record. I load on 1050 with bullet feed so guess out of luck for powder check. If I put in my hearing aids, the funnel trick might be good idea. Not sure powder check would not be more valuable than bullet feed as I get frustrated with it some times. Thanks for suggestion KJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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