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BP in a Marlin 1894


Tom Bullweed

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I shot Marlin 1894 in .44 Mag in a recent match with loads of Goex FFg and 777.

I was astounded at the build up of residue in the extractor tunnel on the bolt. 90 rounds about filled this tunnel.  Cases showed moderate signs of blow by, not as clean as my .32-20 and .38-40 brass.

Other than annealing my brass, any input?

I got my eye on one of the new Marlin 1 of 1500 in .45 Colt, but I am concerned about a complete teardown after every match.

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Very common for .44 Mag and .45 Colt.  The straight walled, and thick walled in the 44 Mag do not seal well with black powder.  There is a good reason why Winchester did not chamber their rifles in 45 Colt (other than it initially being proprietary).

 

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49 minutes ago, Tom Bullweed said:

Other than annealing my brass, any input?

I got my eye on one of the new Marlin 1 of 1500 in .45 Colt, but I am concerned about a complete teardown after every match.

 

Short of annealing the brass, there's nothing more you can do with the thick, straight-walled cases except to use full loads with a heavy bullet and a tight roll crimp, all of which you probably already do...

I break down and thoroughly clean my Marlin after every match that I shoot with BP. 

And yep, you're right... in my .38-40s, all I have to do was clean the barrel.  I took my Winchester apart after the last BP match and I didn't see anything inside that needed to be cleaned.

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Been a while since I played with a Marlin. But I remember it being just pull the lever screw and the bolt will come out the back. Going further was about 2 minutes to have it down to empty receiver. As the little old lady used to say on the Wendy's commercials, "Where's the beef?".

 

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I have the same experience with black powder when shooting straight-walled cartridges in a 1894 Marlin.  I need to squirt Ballistol in the action every other stage and breakdown and clean after every day of shooting to keep them running.  Marlins breakdown so easily that cleaning out BP fouling is quick and easy.

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57 minutes ago, Still hand Bill said:

Ranger point makes a nice finger screw for the lever now.  Can even quickly pull the bolt between stages.  

 

That would be an SASS-illegal external modification.

 

1358240590_FireShotCapture797-MarlinLeverQuickTakedownScrews-StainlessSteel_-www.rangerpointstore_com.png.149188ebd37b54502093710a6ceb8db0.png

 

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I rescued an old Marlin that apparently hadn't been cleaned very well, or very often.

This is the extractor.  The extractor tunnel was a rusty mess, that took quite a bit of cleaning. 

It's best just to pull the bolt, tap out the retaining pin and to clean it out in there.

Or use your .38-40 or .32-20 for BP shooting.

 

50954250_10214327384042867_8734467538659835904_n.jpg.4c6e08193dee7ab196f0292fc7cbb688.jpg

 

 

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12 hours ago, Tom Bullweed said:

  Cases showed moderate signs of blow by, not as clean as my .32-20 and .38-40 brass.

Other than annealing my brass, any input?

 

Yep, stick to 32-20, 38-40 or 44/40;). Goex is great, but if you get  chance to bulk buy with one or two other shooters try the German charcoal like Schuetzen, Graf's for the same price, it burns a little cleaner. We were shooting KIK, great price, but they were out last time we ordered. Good Luck:)

 

51 minutes ago, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

I have the same experience with black powder when shooting straight-walled cartridges in a 1894 Marlin.  I need to squirt Ballistol in the action every other stage and breakdown and clean after every day of shooting to keep them running.  Marlins breakdown so easily that cleaning out BP fouling is quick and easy.

Yep, when we shoot a 38sp Marlin it's no problem for 2 shooters 6 stages with 158gr Snakebite big lubes. Easy to flush with Murphy's mix at home. I usually squirt just a touch of Ballistol in the action and down the pipe after the match, makes clean up real easy later.:D

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48 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

That would be an SASS-illegal external modification.

 

1358240590_FireShotCapture797-MarlinLeverQuickTakedownScrews-StainlessSteel_-www.rangerpointstore_com.png.149188ebd37b54502093710a6ceb8db0.png

 

Unless I'm wrong, this piece is intended for gunsmithing and troubleshooting purposes. (Like when you have to take it apart repeatedly)

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7 minutes ago, Savvy Jack said:

Actually it looks hideously stupid!

Yeah, but just imagine it jewel turned, low profile and interrupted threads for a quarter turn removal. Bet that would get it approved!:wacko:

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My Mar-rem in .44 Mag./ .44 Special will run 6 stages and some side-matches, before I clean it at the end of the shooting day with-out a problem using Star-Line .44Spl. brass and Soft Cast 225 gr. RNFP bullets Lubed with SPG or the like ....

I drop in as much Goex 3F  using a Drop-Tube and compressing the powder 1/8 of an inch, with the bullet ... This works out to be about 2 CC of Powder ....

After shooting the Lever, Bolt and Extractor are dumped in a basin of hot soapy water and the bore cleaned ....the last patch is wet with "Ballistol" the small parts cleaned, dried and given a shot of Ballistol ,,, the inside wiped-down with hot soapy water , dried and wiped down with a rag wet with Balistol ...

Put it Back together .....

I have found the my brass is often cleaner showing way less blow-by than most shooters using Smokieless in cartridges  like .38 spl. , 44 Mag /.44 Spl. and .45 Colt ....

The same loads in my 1872 Open-Tops burns really clean as well , I have had Folks come to me with my brass in hand and "Say I thought you were shooting Black your brass is cleaner than mine "....

 

Jabez Cowboy  

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16 hours ago, L.Lester said:

There is a good reason why Winchester did not chamber their rifles in 45 Colt (other than it initially being proprietary).  The slightly tapered 44/40 seals in the chamber much better.

 

Howdy

 

I have said many times that the slight taper of 44-40 does not make it seal better in a chamber than 45 Colt. High pressure gas does not have a problem going around corners. The thinness of the brass at the case mouth makes the difference. On average, 45 Colt is around .012 thick at the case mouth, 44-40 runs around .007 thick. The thinner brass makes the difference in 44-40 (and 38-40 too) sealing a chamber better at the relatively low pressures generated by Black Powder loads. I was not present at the design meetings when Winchester developed the 44-40 round in 1873, but I suspect the reason the case has a slight taper is a tapered case will feed more reliably from a carrier into a chamber than a straight case will. Don't forget, before the 44-40 was developed, Winchester chambered the Henry and 1866 models for the straight cased 44 Henry rimfire round. I suspect they decided that a tapered case would simply feed better than a straight case.

 

6 hours ago, Snake River Clay SASS #34984 said:

Winchester brass is softer than Starline and seals better. I use only Win brass for BP.

 

No idea where you came up with that statement. Have you run both brands through a hardness tester? My experience is that Winchester 44-40 brass tends to be a smidgen thinner at the neck than Starline. Just measured a bunch of each. Winchester 44-40 brass is running around .0065 - .0075 thick at the case mouth. Starline is running around .0075 -  .0085 thick at the case mouth. In my experience, that is why Winchester 44-40 brass tends to expand slightly better than Starline to seal a chamber. Also, because the brass is a hair thinner at the neck, if one has a rifle that requires 'fat' bullets, such as .430 or so for your 44-40 loads, the thinner brass at the neck of Winchester brass will allow a fat bullet to chamber in a tight chamber, whereas the slightly thicker Starline brass might expand a tad too much and cause  seating problems in a tight chamber. I used to always use Winchester brass for 44-40, because of the thinner neck. But I could not always find Winchester 44-40 brass when I needed it. I suspect Winchester only makes a run of 44-40 once or twice a year. I switched to Starline for all my Black Powder needs a bunch of years ago, 45 Colt, 44-40, 44 Russian, and 38-40 because it is always in stock.

 

For what it's worth, my antique Marlin 1894, which left the factory around 1895, digests my Black Powder 44-40 loads just fine.

 

All the fouling stays in the bore, where it is easy to clean out.

 

marlin%201894%2004_zpsoi5pxndt.jpg

 

 

 

 

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I have a Marlin 94 in .44-40.  How often would you BP recommend me cleaning the magazine tube if I shoot BP in it?  I run a patch or two down the magazine tube of my 73 every time I shoot BP in it.  Some local shooters told me that it wasn't necessary in the Uberti, but I have seen some messed up rifles caused by not doing a proper job of cleaning after running black powder. 

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Howdy Again

 

I may get in trouble for saying this, but with all my 44-40 rifles: Uberti Henry, Original Winchester '92 (two of them), Uberti 1873, and my old Marlin, I never clean out the magazine. Same with my original 38-40 Winchester Model 1873. Not enough fouling gets past the round in the chamber to make it necessary. With the Henry, which I shoot the most often, so little gets past the round in the chamber that I scrub off the carrier and the bolt a little bit, and of course the bore, and that's it. I cannot remember the last time I ran anything down the magazine.

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7 hours ago, Still hand Bill said:

Ranger point makes a nice finger screw for the lever now.  Can even quickly pull the bolt between stages.  

 

6 hours ago, McCandless said:

 

That would be an SASS-illegal external modification.

 

1358240590_FireShotCapture797-MarlinLeverQuickTakedownScrews-StainlessSteel_-www.rangerpointstore_com.png.149188ebd37b54502093710a6ceb8db0.png

 

 

The ROC notified the manufacturer that requested approval was denied & that installation of this part would be an ILLEGAL external modification. (February 2018)

 

3 hours ago, Goody, SASS #26190 said:

Yeah, but just imagine it jewel turned, low profile and interrupted threads for a quarter turn removal. Bet that would get it approved!:wacko:

 

NO...it would NOT.

 

 

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FWIW - When shooting .44spl BP (KIK 2F) loads in my Marlin 1894 CB-LTD, I've found it easier/faster to clean the rifle than cleaning either of my SAA's.

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22 hours ago, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

I have a Marlin 94 in .44-40.  How often would you BP recommend me cleaning the magazine tube if I shoot BP in it?  I run a patch or two down the magazine tube of my 73 every time I shoot BP in it.  Some local shooters told me that it wasn't necessary in the Uberti, but I have seen some messed up rifles caused by not doing a proper job of cleaning after running black powder. 

I break down my BP guns about twice a year, mag tube gets cleaned and lubed also. I have had new Uberti and used Marlin with nasty mag tubes. Once cleaned I replaced with SS mag springs. Good Luck:)

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I would definitely check your mag tube regularly at first and then if it's still looking clean you can decide how often to check and clean it. Mine eventually got dirty enough that the spring got hung up and didn't push the rounds out. This is a Marlin 44- 40.

   I think the residue got in the tube when I sprayed Windex down the bore and pulled a bore snake through after a days shooting. After each match. The excess got into the tube. I think this is what happened as opposed to fouling getting in there when shooting. My 44- 40 is runs much cleaner the my 44 mag Marlin.

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All of my Marlins were made in CT sometime between 1904 and 2005 or so.  I've shot BP out the .38, 38-40, 44-40, and .45.   The .38 needed the bolt taken down twice a year during the time I was shooting 3 or 4 matches a month and 3 or 4 multi-day shoots a year.   I was still using sub powder at that time so that may have been a factor.   Trying to get the pins out, keep track of them ( always taped to a sticky note after the cat hopped on the bench to help one time) and get them back in was a PITA.  I started using real BP and the .45 which was a little better.    Had a change in how I cleaned, too.  I would flush the bolt real good and then blow it out with the compressor and it would go a year or even longer.  I've never taken the bolt down on any of any of my 44-40's or the 38-40.   I use a 44-40 as my main match go-to rifle now and have for years.  I still flush and blow out the bolt periodically.  There's never much in the receiver when I clean after a match.  I still poke and wipe around just in case.  I dump all the guts, remove the mag tub, etc once a year to detail clean and look for problems.  All magazine springs are stainless.  I've lived in a very dry climate for 3 years now but apparently, I still have my humidity paranoia!   I think the moral of the story is that calibers made for BP do best, calibers that were made for smokeless are going to be more work. 

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I shot APP in my Marlin 1894 44mag for about 4 years. Took me awhile to figure out what all it liked, with Widder’s help and many phone calls of course lol. My Marlin likes 44 special brass with a 200 grain bullet, 1.3cc and some filler...take it home, take the lever screw out, ballistol it real good, soak the bolt and extractor tunnel, use a Q tip on her, put the bolt back in and lever screw and run her again next match! 
 

I have since gotta a new model 45 Colt Marlin and been shooting that demon smokeless for a couple years, but that smoke has been calling my name lately :D

 

BD

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