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Dungannon Gunner

Help need from Long Range Shooters

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I am working on a Long Range informational packet and one of the areas I would like to detail are the calibers used in Buffalo and Single Shot categories. Listed here is my second try at finding most if not all the calibers used back in the day and SASS legal. Note that Single shot includes all those listed and Buffalo only includes those .375 and larger. Thanks in advance for any and all assist!

25-35 WCF

25-36 Marlin

30 U.S. (30-40 Krag, 30 Army)

30-30 WCF (30 WCF)

32 Special

32-40 Ballard

33 WCF

35 WCF

38-55 Marlin and Ballard

38-56 WCF

40-100

405 WCF

40-60 WCF

40-65

40-90 Sharps

43 Spanish

44-100

44-100 Ballard

44-105 Sharps (necked)

44-77 Sharps

44-90 Rem

45-100 Ballard

45-100 Sharps

45-110 Sharps

45-120 Sharps

45-125 Sharps

45-60 WCF

45-70 Gov WCF

45-75 WCF

45-75-Sharps

45-90 Sharps

50 Gov (old 50-70 Musket Caliber)

50-90 Sharps

50-100 Sharps

50-110 Sharps

50-70 Gov

56-50

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I just walk, run, or sneak of closer.  I know this doesn't really help, but it's Thursday.

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And the 40-90 SBN (Sharps Bottle Neck) is also a different cartridge than the 40-90 Sharps Straight?.   There was also a .40-50 SBN.

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.303 British, .303 Savage?

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2 hours ago, Dungannon Gunner said:

...I'd like to detail are the calibers used in Buffalo and Single Shot categories... all the calibers used back in the day and SASS legal. Note that Single shot includes all those listed and Buffalo only includes those .375 and larger...

 

25 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

.303 British, .303 Savage?

See above.  Was either cartridge chambered in rifles of US manufacture using a tubular magazine for lever action design during the pre-1899 era, were any "traditional US manufactured single shot rifles" during the same period.  I know of at least one instance where a Rolling Block in 7mm Mauser was disqualified from competition at EOT.  

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The 7mm Mauser isn't a rimmed cartridge. If it were chambered in 7x57R, it should have been OK.

I suppose there is a bit of leeway in interpretation, as the rules don't specify that a period cartridge is only legal if it was chambered in a period rifle. Such as the .303 Savage, a traditional, period, rimmed cartridge, dates to 1894, as does say a Winchester M94, but the .303 Savage was never chambered in the Winchester rifle. It could be interpreted that both would be legal by themselves, but not together. If someone documented a custom High Wall chambered in .303 British, would that then be considered a legal combination?

 

“Rifle Caliber” competition rifles must use traditional, period, rimmed cartridges. No cartridge chambered for use in any SASS approved main match revolver or rifle may be used in the “Rifle Caliber” competition, except the .56-50. Thus, .30-30 (.30 WCF), .38-55 Marlin & Ballard, .43 Spanish, or .45-70 Government cartridges are legal, while a .375 Winchester, .444 Marlin, .32-20, or .44-40 are not legal. Shotguns using slugs are not allowed in the Buffalo Single Shot competition."

 

"Lever action rifles used in long-range matches, whether revolver or rifle calibers, must be originals or replicas of rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899. Lever or slide action, tubular feed, exposed hammer rifles or carbines are allowed, providing they are in safe working condition. Single Shot and Buffalo Single Shot firearms must be originals or replicas of single shot rifles manufactured during the period from approximately 1860 until 1899. All rifles MUST have exposed hammers. The caliber and cartridge rules for the “Rifle Caliber” firearms noted above under basic rules also apply to Single Shot and Buffalo Single Shot rifles with the exception Buffalo Single Shot rifles must be .375" bore size or larger."

 

Only Buffalo Single Shot specifies a rifle of US design or manufacture.

Edited by Three Foot Johnson

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Check the date of introduction for the cartridges. The .405 WCF is from 1904, I will disallow it from Buffalo Rifle at least in the annual matches I run.

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Both .33 WCF and .35 WCF are post 1900 designs ....

 

 

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I'm a little confused.  Are you wanting to detail cartridges used back when on the buffalo ranges or are you trying to develop a list of "long range cartridges' that have been used in modern buffalo matches?

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Add .40-70 Sharps Straight and .40-70 Sharps Bottleneck

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

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2 hours ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said:

I'm a little confused.  Are you wanting to detail cartridges used back when on the buffalo ranges or are you trying to develop a list of "long range cartridges' that have been used in modern buffalo matches?

All cartridges that can be /are legally used for SASS Long Range Competition

Edited by Dungannon Gunner
typo

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8 hours ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said:

You should include the 44-90 Sharps BN....its a different case than the Remington

Done... Thanks!

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7 hours ago, Griff said:

And the 40-90 SBN (Sharps Bottle Neck) is also a different cartridge than the 40-90 Sharps Straight?.   There was also a .40-50 SBN.

Added. Thanks!

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Buy a copy of "Cartridges of the World", find all the rimmed cartridges and read when they were introduced. ;)

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8 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

I just walk, run, or sneak of closer.  I know this doesn't really help, but it's Thursday.

I like your strategy!

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7 hours ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

.303 British, .303 Savage?

If you find some information as Griff listed then I would be happy to include on the list I am putting together. I am certainly NOT THE expert and want to go with information that we can all document in some way.

Thank you 

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As the rules are written, there's no reason they wouldn't be legal, although .303 Savage is a bit rare and hard to come by.

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36 minutes ago, El Mulo Vaquero, SASS #55942 said:

38-72 WCF, originally developed in 1895 for the Winchester 1895 rifle.  Also used by some single shot rifle manufacturers 

Done!  Thanks Nice catch!

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1 hour ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

Add .40-70 Sharps Straight and .40-70 Bottleneck

Added. Done. Nice catch.  Thank you!

 

P.S. We have never met but I have a lot of respect for you based on your reputation and knowledgeable answers to partner's questions!

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12 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

As the rules are written, there's no reason they wouldn't be legal, although .303 Savage is a bit rare and hard to come by.

Thanks Three Foot Johnson. If you ever see any supporting documentation, please pass it along.

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Supporting documentation is in the Shooter's Handbook, but if there's any doubt about the legality of either of them, Palewolf is the guy who could make that determination.

Edited by Three Foot Johnson

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43 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Buy a copy of "Cartridges of the World", find all the rimmed cartridges and read when they were introduced. ;)

I'll second that advise on getting yourself a copy of " Cartridges of the World" book.  There are several more cartridges listed in that book that should be included on your list.

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4 hours ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Both .33 WCF and .35 WCF are post 1900 designs ....

 

 

Jabez,

Danged if you aint right!

33 WCF used in 1886 Win but not developed until 1902

35 WCF used in 1895 but not developed until 1903

Corrections made. Nice catch! Thanks!

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5 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

What do you call 'long range'?

OLG 

Most of us down South are lucky with 200 and 300 yard range availability. Go to Quigley Montana match and you can shoot 1000 and 805 yards

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5 hours ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

Check the date of introduction for the cartridges. The .405 WCF is from 1904, I will disallow it from Buffalo Rifle at least in the annual matches I run.

Ironhead you would be right to do so. I must have written down 405 grains for something and let my fingers do to much walking. Thanks for the catch!

 

PS, thanks for a great Long Range match in Alabama at the Southeast Regional!

 

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Come up here we do Long range starting at about 385 Yards ....

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I'm afraid of those Big flies I hear you have up there that actually take a bite out of you!

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On 11/14/2019 at 10:22 PM, Dungannon Gunner said:

Ironhead you would be right to do so. I must have written down 405 grains for something and let my fingers do to much walking. Thanks for the catch!

 

PS, thanks for a great Long Range match in Alabama at the Southeast Regional!

 


You're welcome Dungannon and thank you for the compliment on our match. With us limited to 200 yards it took a bit to come up with something that won't drive new shooters away from frustration and not be boring to experienced shooters. Looks like I hit the challenge/fun split just right.

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25-20 is a legal Main Match Rifle cartridge ......

So is not a legal Longrange Rifle Cartridge ....Except for Pistol Caliber Longrange Events .....

And it is really hard to see or hear impacts on steel much past 50 yards ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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What about the 25-21 Stevens? You might need to look a bit for this one. Mine is good, just barely, for 200 yards.

 

Lucky

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