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Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

WTC: A stage full of knockdowns and a rifle malfunction

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14 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

SHB p.28

So. Are you saying he could alleviate that miss with the shotgun? 

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2 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

So. Are you saying he could alleviate that miss with the shotgun? 

 

Quote

 

For instance: rifle scenario is triple tap each of the 3 rifle targets and then shoot the knockdown. KD can be made up with shotgun.

Shooter only loads 9. He triple taps the 3 rifle targets and then engages the KD with the shotgun. He has a P.

 

 

You stated that in your scenario.

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Just now, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

You stated that in your scenario.

So that means a shooter can totally disregard the stage instructions and just not shoot a rifle or pistol knockdown as long as the words KDs can be made up with the shotgun. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Do we just get to ignore the words "made up"? It doesn't say "instead of". 

Tell me where I am wrong in my thinking.

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Shooter still has to engage the targets. "Engage" doesn't mean shoot at, it means attempt to shoot at. If he can't shoot at them due to a malfunction, he's still engaged them.

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32 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

So that means a shooter can totally disregard the stage instructions and just not shoot a rifle or pistol knockdown as long as the words KDs can be made up with the shotgun. That makes absolutely no sense to me. Do we just get to ignore the words "made up"? It doesn't say "instead of". 

Tell me where I am wrong in my thinking.

 

There's a difference between an "unfired round" in a loaded/functional firearm and a malfunction/ejection/failure to fire.

(that was covered in an earlier three-part thread, IIRC)

In your scenario, if the shooter brought an EMPTY rifle to the stage, he would have incurred 9 misses...but the 10th shot (KD) was specified as "make-uppable?" with the shotgun.

 

...as long as the shooter attempted to fire the rifle (as opposed to skipping it completely if it was realized mid-stage that it hadn't been loaded).
That would be a "
P" for:

Quote

Failure to attempt to fire a firearm, engage a prop, or perform a stage maneuver.

SHB p.22

 

 

Edited by PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L
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2 minutes ago, Three Foot Johnson said:

Shooter still has to engage the targets. "Engage" doesn't mean shoot at, it means attempt to shoot at. If he can't shoot at them due to a malfunction, he's still engaged them.

That's where something isn't right. Not loading enough ammo in the rifle is not a malfunction. In any sense of the word.

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27 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

There's a difference between an "unfired round" in a loaded/functional firearm and a malfunction/ejection/failure to fire.

 

But this is none of those. This is an unloaded round in a functional rifle. I understand that round is scored as a miss and that target can be made up but I don't see how it can let you get by with not engaging the target.

Quote

 

(that was covered in an earlier three-part thread, IIRC)

In your scenario, if the shooter brought an EMPTY rifle to the stage, he would have incurred 9 misses...but the 10th shot (KD) was specified as "make-uppable?" with the shotgun.

 

 

I must be a fence post. I did say "the KD can be made up with the SG". To be "made up" it has to be engaged for the first time, correct? I don't see where it was engaged at all before being shot with the shotgun. That is what I am trying to discern. What keeps a shooter from willfully disregarding the stage instructions? I thought we got a p for that. All the stages I have ever shot gave a round count that you have to load.

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"Made up" generally refers to MISSES.
By definition (REF: previous post from
SHB p.28) the unloaded/unfired round is a MISS.

"A miss cannot cause a procedural"
REF also definition of
SOG infraction (SHB p.24)

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