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Equanimous Phil

Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl, two-handed exception?

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Howdy

 

As we see in most western movies cowboys shot their sixgun one-handed and thus, categories as Classic Cowboy require "Revolvers must be shot Duelist or Double Duelist style" (SHB p.7), so far so good.

 

Inspired by this topic in the saloon, I would like to know if that could be overruled by a stage description. I am thinking of something like after shooting 10 rounds (double) duelist "reload one and engage bonus target (which is smaller or further out), two-handed grip allowed". This would (imho) also work for gunfighter style.

 

Shooting a revolver two-handed in rare occasions would be a realistic scenario when accuracy is needed and it would intersperse some variety. But would it be possible by the SASS rules? Or is it even done at some clubs? What is your opinion on this idea?

 

Equanimous

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Any Duelist or GFer worth his salt would still shoot it one handed. Even if allowed two handed.

 

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23 minutes ago, Anvil Al #59168 said:

Any Duelist or GFer worth his salt would still shoot it one handed. Even if allowed two handed.

 

 

And poke fun at anyone who didn't.

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I have become so accustomed to shooting duelist that even when there's a stage with a pocket pistol or derringer worked into the scenario, I shoot them duelist despite the harder trigger pull.  I'm not opposed to offering this but likely would not use two hands.

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NO!!

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25 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

 

From the link above:

  • The idea was to present the least amount of body surface area to the opponent and this could be achieved by facing the opponent sideways.
  • Another reason was that it allowed the shooter to use the other hand for something else
  • Many competitive pistol shooting events [...] also mandate that the shooter should use only one hand, particularly because it is more challenging than shooting two-handed.

Yes, it's easier to get an accurate shot two-handed than one-handed, hence my initial question...

 

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It is pretty unwise to require pards to shoot with a style (or a gun) that they have never used.   Leads to hard feelings that someone is discriminating against them.

 

You can make it an option by writing a stage description to say "If your category requires shooting duelist, you may for this stage shoot two handed if you wish."

Or "You can use the provided Muzzleloader for the bonus shot, or your own rifle by doing a reload"  (I know which one I'd do!)

 

Then you get what you want, without getting too many feathers ruffled.

 

And don't do this at an annual match or above unless you like scrubbing tar off.  Just putting out a pistol target that is real hard to hit will be discouraging enough.

 

Good luck, GJ

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54 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

It is pretty unwise to require pards to shoot with a style (or a gun) that they have never used.

 

You can make it an option by writing a stage description to say "If your category requires shooting duelist, you may for this stage shoot two handed if you wish."

Full agreement, that's why I've written "two-handed allowed" in my example. 

 

58 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Just putting out a pistol target that is real hard to hit will be discouraging enough.

If it's a bonus target (as in my example) you don't have to hit it to be clean.

Some shooters will be discouraged, some will be extra motivated and enjoy the challenge. ;)

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34 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

If it's a bonus target (as in my example) you don't have to hit it to be clean.

 

Once one pard hits a bonus target, if you wish to compete to best of your ability, you must also.

Not saying don't use a difficult pistol target. Just be aware of how much discontent you can buy with one.

 

Good luck, GJ

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17 hours ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

Once one pard hits a bonus target, if you wish to compete to best of your ability, you must also.

Not saying don't use a difficult pistol target. Just be aware of how much discontent you can buy with one.

 

In my example I was thinking of a bonus target that was "a little" harder to hit than the other pistol targets, so you really have to aim and use sights, but still very hittable and not just for lucky shots. The idea is basically inspired by the movie scene Loophole LaRue mentioned and which looks quite realistic (as what a man would do in real life) to me:

On 11/10/2019 at 10:34 PM, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Hang 'em High - Ben Johnson as the Marshal that picks Clint Eastwood up after he was hanged.  Stops in a town and picks up another prisoner, who promptly tries to escape.  Shoots him in the leg (one-handed) but that does not stop him.  Runs another 10 yards.  So Ben switches to a two-handed grip, and shoots him again.  Effectively.

 

I was just wondering if such a stage with a shot that could optionally be performed two-handed by all categories basically would be possible by SASS rules. Well, nobody negated that.

 

I personally like the almost endless variations you face in CAS. You know how to handle your tools but you have to handle stages that you never practiced before as every stage is different and you have to adapt your skills to the situation. I appreciate the open format of this game as opposed to other sports where you repeat the very same procedure over and over in practice and competition (been there, done that).

 

Equanimous

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22 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

From the link above:

  • The idea was to present the least amount of body surface area to the opponent and this could be achieved by facing the opponent sideways.
  • Another reason was that it allowed the shooter to use the other hand for something else
  • Many competitive pistol shooting events [...] also mandate that the shooter should use only one hand, particularly because it is more challenging than shooting two-handed.

Yes, it's easier to get an accurate shot two-handed than one-handed, hence my initial question...

 

I said it was interesting I didn't say I agreed with it! I can get better accuracy one handed since I that's the way I've been shooting for years! The only time I use a two handed hold is if I'm shooting heavy magnum loads, which I hardly ever do, two hands absorbs the recoil.

 

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I said it was interesting I didn't say I agreed with it!

 

I apologize then, I missinterpreted that.

 

3 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I can get better accuracy one handed since I that's the way I've been shooting for years! The only time I use a two handed hold is if I'm shooting magnum loads, two hands absorbs the recoil.

 

I absolutely believe you, as it's always the things you practice you're best at! If you practice something difficult you are better at it than at the easier things you don't practice.

I still consider the two-handed shooting style easier respectively more accurate in general for the majority of shooters (practice assumed). Also, new shooters are typically advocated to shoot a two-handed grip, while shooting duelist or GF style is a higher league and more challenging.

 

In that stage scenario I have in mind I wouldn't ever require a two handed shooting style for a duelist or GF, just giving the option.

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40 minutes ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

I apologize then, I missinterpreted that.

 

 

I absolutely believe you, as it's always the things you practice you're best at! If you practice something difficult you are better at it than at the easier things you don't practice.

I still consider the two-handed shooting style easier respectively more accurate in general for the majority of shooters (practice assumed). Also, new shooters are typically advocated to shoot a two-handed grip, while shooting duelist or GF style is a higher league and more challenging.

 

In that stage scenario I have in mind I wouldn't ever require a two handed shooting style for a duelist or GF, just giving the option.

Nothing to apologize for, I posted that mainly because of the beginning where they show that they trained the military to shoot one handed, probably until the 70's. 

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IMO, no exception is needed. If you attend a match where it would be difficult for you to shoot duelist, just shoot an age-based category. You can dress any way you like and switch from duelist to two handed at will. Or, shoot BW, if you have the clothing, where any shooting style is allowed.

 

Exceptions and accommodations are only necessary when allowing someone to shoot when they would otherwise not be able to do so.

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3 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

IMO, no exception is needed. If you attend a match where it would be difficult for you to shoot duelist, just shoot an age-based category. You can dress any way you like and switch from duelist to two handed at will. Or, shoot BW, if you have the clothing, where any shooting style is allowed.

 

Exceptions and accommodations are only necessary when allowing someone to shoot when they would otherwise not be able to do so.

The OP was asking about shooting two handed at a bonus target even if you're shooting Duelist/Classic Cowboy.

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1 hour ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

The OP was asking about shooting two handed at a bonus target even if you're shooting Duelist/Classic Cowboy.

Yes, I know. I gave my opinion on exceptions to category requirements.

 

Rye, you have probably never heard of the matches at Chabot Park. The targets were incredibly small and far. One time I got a P. I asked what I did. I hadn't engaged one of the targets. I didn't see it and guess I wasn't paying attention to the scenario. LOL.

 

 Hubby has always been a Duelist. He was top cowboy many times at Chabot and the first person to ever clean a match there. This experience led to the formation of my opinion.

 

There are categories where you can mix shooting styles. So, I don't see the need for an exception.

 

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7 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Yes, I know. I gave my opinion on exceptions to category requirements.

 

Rye, you have probably never heard of the matches at Chabot Park. The targets were incredibly small and far. One time I got a P. I asked what I did. I hadn't engaged one of the targets. I didn't see it and guess I wasn't paying attention to the scenario. LOL.

 

 Hubby has always been a Duelist. He was top cowboy many times at Chabot and the first person to ever clean a match there. This experience led to the formation of my opinion.

 

There are categories where you can mix shooting styles. So, I don't see the need for an exception.

 

I get what you’re saying but you can’t mix shooting styles in duelist or Classic, or am I missing something?? I know BW or age based categories you can mix styles. ;)

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2 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

I get what you’re saying but you can’t mix shooting styles in duelist or Classic, or am I missing something?? I know BW or age based categories you can mix styles. ;)

Hi again,

 

Seems like you answered your question with the second sentence. 

 

The MD can do just about anything that isn't compromising safety on a scenario. My opinion is that granting an exception as in the OP should not be necessary. :) As many people have written here about similar things, all of the Duelists are required to compete as Duelists. Some Duelists and GFs, even when allowed to shoot with a two-handed grip, will not do so.  See Anvil Al's and Black Hills Barb's posts.

 

I hope this clarifies things.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

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17 minutes ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

Hi again,

 

Seems like you answered your question with the second sentence. 

 

The MD can do just about anything that isn't compromising safety on a scenario. My opinion is that granting an exception as in the OP should not be necessary. :) As many people have written here about similar things, all of the Duelists are required to compete as Duelists. Some Duelists and GFs, even when allowed to shoot with a two-handed grip, will not do so.  See Anvil Al's and Black Hills Barb's posts.

 

I hope this clarifies things.

 

Regards,

 

Allie

 

Gotcha!!;)

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On ‎11‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 3:41 AM, Tyrel Cody said:

 

And poke fun at anyone who didn't.

 

Poke, and poke, and poke.

Would not let them hear the end of it.

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