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Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438

I saw it!!! Two handed grip in a Western!!

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After years of folks saying things like "You'll never see a two-handed grip in any Western".......I saw one.

 

Hang 'em High - Ben Johnson as the Marshal that picks Clint Eastwood up after he was hanged.  Stops in a town and picks up another prisoner, who promptly tries to escape.  Shoots him in the leg (one-handed) but that does not stop him.  Runs another 10 yards.  So Ben switches to a two-handed grip, and shoots him again.  Effectively.

 

Yeah, I know - that doesn't prove that it was done in the West.  But Ben Johnson was as close to a real cowboy as you could get in my lifetime; if it was OK by him, it's certainly OK by me.

 

LL

 

 

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Howdy,

Now ya did it.

I gotta watch that one again.

Thankya thankyavaramuch.

Best

CR

 

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Steve McQueen in the Magnificent Seven, after he was shot in the leg and retreated into the building.

 

Also James Coburn when he shot the spy guy off the horse!

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11 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Yup! I remember the scene with Ben Johnson. 

 

Don’t remember the M7 scenes though. 

 

As soon as Blackwater mentioned them, I did a forehead slap and thought "How could I have forgotten those"?

 

LL

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Just looked at the credits for Hang 'em High - and the desperado that Ben Johnson shot ("The Preacher") was......Dennis Hopper!

 

I love finding little bits of surprising info about older Westerns.

 

LL

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When Dennis Hopper’s character is shot in Hang Em High I was quite happy about it the frat time I saw the movie when I was a kid. And yes, I recall the two handed shot. 
 

Now ya done it. I remember a black and white western where a bad guy did a two handed shot...now I have to figutkre out which one. This’ll be like an ear worm for movies. Would that be an eye worm?

Edited by Pat Riot, SASS #13748

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38 minutes ago, Abilene Slim SASS 81783 said:

Hopper was pretty good at playing little weasels. He was also the son of villain James Gregory in Sons of Katie Elder. 

 

...and as Moon he lost some fingers in the cabin before getting stabbed to death in the original True Grit.

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7 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 

...and as Moon he lost some fingers in the cabin before getting stabbed to death in the original True Grit.

You da man. Excellent recall!

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3 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Ben Johnson as the Marshal that picks Clint Eastwood up after he was hanged.  Stops in a town and picks up another prisoner, who promptly tries to escape.  Shoots him in the leg (one-handed) but that does not stop him.  Runs another 10 yards.  So Ben switches to a two-handed grip, and shoots him again.  Effectively.

 

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Don't forget that while it wasn't technically a two-handed hold, 'Wild Bill' Hickok steadied his pistol across his arm when he fatally shot Davis Tutt in 1865. I'm pretty sure as pistols became more accurate at greater than across-the-room distances it didn't take long for most people to realize that their hit probability increased when they steadied the weapon using both hands. Back during the flintlock era pistols were good for hits at 20 paces and that was about it... not much to be gained by using both hands or a rest.

.

Edited by Sixgun Sheridan

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I don't recall where I read this - maybe one of Elmer's stories.

 

Guy was going to show his long-range shooting ability with a Single Action Army. Shooting at a chicken at 75 yards. Going to shoot the chicken's head off.

 

Used what I believe is called a "rock the baby" hold. would be WITH THE (furshlugginer phone) left side of your body pointed towards the target, you hold your right elbow with your left hand, and rest the gun on your left arm. This allows you to get your head right down behind the hammer and carefully use the sights.

 

As we all know, with a plow-handle grip single action, the gun rolls back in your hand under recoil.

 

So he takes careful aim and he touches it off, and it rolls in his hand under recoil, and since his head is so close to the gun, the front sight digs into his forehead.

 

Blood running all down his face.

 

Headless chicken out there at 75 yards, though.

Edited by Alpo

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13 hours ago, Loophole LaRue, SASS #51438 said:

Runs another 10 yards.  So Ben switches to a two-handed grip

Talking CAS: Could a stage description allow two-handed shots for classic cowboy (e.g. smaller bonus target) or is that even common in some clubs?

 

Edit: Just Posted this question on the Wire.

Edited by Equanimous Phil

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Almost all of 2 handed shots in western movies are with the left hand supporting the right wrist. I've never seen an example of a 2 hand hold with rapid cocking with the weak hand thumb as done in SASS.

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2 hours ago, Smokin Gator SASS #29736 said:

I've never seen an example of a 2 hand hold with rapid cocking with the weak hand thumb as done in SASS.

 

Why should they use a thumb when fanning was allowed back then :lol:

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2 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

Why should they use a thumb when fanning was allowed back then :lol:


Maybe because by thumbing with the off hand you can actually hit something.  Fanning, not so much.

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Does anyone have any footage of Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, Bat Masterson, Wild Bill, Billy the Kid shooting two handed??

 

I'm sure someone has a film clip of them!!:P:lol:

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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Well, let's see if I have this right.

The gunfight at the OK Corral had the participants 6-10 feet apart.

30 Rounds were fired. 8 hits (26%)

Morgan Earp in the shoulder blades.

Virgil Earp in the Calf

Frank McLaury - two shots, one in the head

Tom McLaury - Shotgun

Billy Clanton - 3 shots - wrist, chest, abdomen.

 

Perhaps they should have used two hands.

 

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59 minutes ago, Rooster Cognizant said:

The gunfight at the OK Corral had the participants 6-10 feet apart.

30 Rounds were fired. 8 hits (26%)

[...]

Perhaps they should have used two hands.

 

2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Does anyone have any footage of Wyatt Earp, Doc Holiday, Bat Masterson, Wild Bill, Billy the Kid shooting two handed??

 

Is it really a fact that they were shooting one-handed? I can imaging a fast draw beeing one-handed, shooting from a horse or if the other hand was occupied with holding something, for example a second gun :D , or two fellas duelling according strict rules. Does footage or pictures of one-handed shootings exist (except posing for that picture)? Why would someone want to shoot one-handed? Rather die cool than shoot two-handed at the rival? Everyone in our club shoots more precisely two-handed than one-handed and not everytime targets are big and close. Just wondering....

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Doesn’t Bruce Dern use a 2 handed grip when he shoots John Wayne in the back in “The Cowboys”?  All together now.....Booooo!

 

ML

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Two handed shooters miss just as much as one handers!

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23 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Two handed shooters miss just as much as one handers!

 

As long as shooters want to be fast they also miss, no matter of shooting style. If you never miss you're shooting too slow. And yes, one can hit revolver targets at typical CAS distances and of typical size very well with one hand, it's not bulls-eye shooting. But if the target gets smaller or is set further out I'd claim two-handed to be more accurate.

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Back in the Old West there was a story about two cowpokes who got into a heated argument inside a saloon, drew their pistols, and chased each other around a card table shooting at each other. In the end when they realized they'd emptied both of their guns, with holes everywhere except in each other, they laughed and sat back down for another round of drinks.

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5 hours ago, Rooster Cognizant said:

Well, let's see if I have this right.

The gunfight at the OK Corral had the participants 6-10 feet apart.

30 Rounds were fired. 8 hits (26%)

Morgan Earp in the shoulder blades.

Virgil Earp in the Calf

Frank McLaury - two shots, one in the head

Tom McLaury - Shotgun

Billy Clanton - 3 shots - wrist, chest, abdomen.

 

Perhaps they should have used two hands.

 

 

Or the front sight.

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2 hours ago, Equanimous Phil said:

 

As long as shooters want to be fast they also miss, no matter of shooting style. If you never miss you're shooting too slow. And yes, one can hit revolver targets at typical CAS distances and of typical size very well with one hand, it's not bulls-eye shooting. But if the target gets smaller or is set further out I'd claim two-handed to be more accurate.

I disagree, not for everyone. I am more accurate one handed than I am two handed. I don't shoot two handed and I'm all out of whack when I try. I've been shooting one handed for years! I'm sure I'm not the only one!

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This is kinda interesting.

 

https://firearmshistory.blogspot.com/2012/03/handgun-shooting-positions-one-handed.html

Edited by Rye Miles #13621

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There may be something to the fact that it is called a HANDgun and not a HANDSgun. 

Sorry.  Couldn’t hep myself.

 

I shoot one handed 90% of the time, but have been known to steady for a long range shot with the other hand(usually with a long barreled gun).

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I saw a Western where da Cowboy got on his Horse to ride facing the Horses Tail ,,,,,, Don't mean that's how it was done in the Cowboy days ...

 

Let da Flaming begin .... I hear they need some heat in Montana bout now ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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