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my brass is splitting


Hidalgo

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3 hours ago, Joke 'um said:

I usually like to find out what is not wrong before trying to change one or some of the possible causes of a problem.  If your rifle has been in use a long time, some wizard may have modified or damaged the chamber.  "Wildcat" experimentation comes to mind.

I cringe before asking but, you're not using modern .38 cal bullets (0.357), right?

 

Ah NO. 38-40-180gr are .401

Same bullet I've been using for years. 

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4 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

Could this happen if there is any air space?

Hmm, good question. I wondered that myself.

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3 hours ago, Cliff Hanger #3720LR said:

My personal observations.

 

Your loads allow the filler to get below the neck shoulder.

On firing the powder is pushing the filler which pushs the brass and the brass fails breaking the neck and spliting the case.

 

The filler you are using is hydroscopic.

It attracks mositure then hardens in to a solid.

 

When I was loading commercially for cas, the filler I used was Instant gritts.

It did not attract mositure.

It did not harden in to a solid.

 

And most of all, when down loading bottle neck cases, DO NOT have your filler go below the top of the neck.

Do  Not go in to or below the shoulder.

 

If you do, your down loaded rounds will be come high preesure rounds when they try to move the solid filler in to the neck.

The case will fail.

 

And again my opinion.

Why down load BP or BP substitues?

They have a push recoil and not a hit.

 

And do not let your fired brass sit before cleaning it.

2 or 3 days is long enough and in some cases too long.

Also, make sure it drys quickly,.

Put in the sun or some where that is warm and mositure free.

 

 

Good info. And it makes sense to me also. I plan to fill powder to at least the top of the neck as you suggest. I am in the process of pulling all 1000 that I have loaded with filler.

Also I soak the fired brass at the range in moose milk until I get home. Then I wet tumble them and dry them in the sun. Lots of sun here in south Texas.

Thank you Cliff Hanger.

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3 hours ago, Joke 'um said:

I usually like to find out what is not wrong before trying to change one or some of the possible causes of a problem.  If your rifle has been in use a long time, some wizard may have modified or damaged the chamber.  "Wildcat" experimentation comes to mind.

 

 

That's a good idea. I will find someone who can do it. Worth checking.

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On 11/9/2019 at 4:32 PM, TN Mongo, SASS #61450 said:

You can find activated charcoal at any store that sells supplies for fish aquariums (I found some at WalMart).  I'm sure you can find it cheaper in bulk if you look.

 

Charcoal works very well, but in my experience, it produced even more smoke which made it even harder to see the targets.  I know this will make many laugh, but I've had good luck using new kitty litter as a filler.

 

Some activated charcoal such as that sold in aquarium supply stores is treated with calcium chloride as part of the "activating" process.   It is corrosive and can corrode thin brass such as .44-40 (and, I presume .38-40)  while the ammo is in storage.   Then when it's fired, it can cause case separation and splitting.  

 

According to the internet, that's not the only way to make activated charcoal, but it's one of the cheaper ways and is quite common.   As OLG said: don't use fillers.

 

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2 hours ago, Montana Slim SASS #20107 said:

 

Some activated charcoal such as that sold in aquarium supply stores is treated with calcium chloride as part of the "activating" process.   It is corrosive and can corrode thin brass such as .44-40 (and, I presume .38-40)  while the ammo is in storage.   Then when it's fired, it can cause case separation and splitting.  

.

 

 

If it were loaded with CaCl2, that would wash out easily with water.  Dry in a warm oven and you could use it.  I've not found my vendor uses any chemical addition to the charcoal.

 

And, I'd not expect calcium chloride to be in aquarium supply charcoal - the salts would wash right into the fish tank and kill the fish!    Nor in water filter charcoal - would contaminate drinking water!

 

Good luck, GJ

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It's Veterans Day today.  Maybe there will be someone to answer the phones.  I'll bet Starline will want to see the brass in person.

 

The 38WCF has a very short neck section.  I suspect the bullet goes deeper than the length.  So if you should only use filler above the neck, there is little to no place for it. 

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1 hour ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Find out anything? 

Got a reply from Starline Tech...He said "I don’t know much about loading black powder, but every time I’ve seen a black powder load that has separated it has been loaded with a wad or some other type of filler."

 

Since I am loading 38-40 cases which are bottle-necked, I will be loading with all powder, no filler. 

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On ‎11‎/‎10‎/‎2019 at 3:12 PM, Joke 'um said:

I usually like to find out what is not wrong before trying to change one or some of the possible causes of a problem.  If your rifle has been in use a long time, some wizard may have modified or damaged the chamber.  "Wildcat" experimentation comes to mind.

I cringe before asking but, you're not using modern .38 cal bullets (0.357), right?

 

The .38-40 is actually a .40 caliber, bullet diameter runs around .401-.403".

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I don't think using 777 is the answer in any attempt to reduce loads, as it has more energy than equal weights of black powder and any of the other subs.  I'd recommend APP if you're going to try using a reduced load.  I don't use fillers of any type in my BP loads.  I do reduce loads in my 45  Colts and don't use fillers.  Just don't reduce too much.  There'll be some that say you have eliminate all airspace, but this is really only true in muzzleloaders where there is no case to insulate the ignition from the barrel.  In the .38-40, like other bottlenecked cases, compressing your loads will NOT improve accuracy, it can actually degrade accuracy to the point of disgust.  And like fillers in a bottleneck, can form a hard plug increasing pressures to disastrous levels, as you've found.  Those are not "splits", those are case separations.  Splits are case cracks that follow the case length, not radially.

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