H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 6, 2019 Share Posted November 6, 2019 It's a ways off yet, but one of my long term goals is to save up enough money to get me a Large Frame Colt Lighting rifle. Even though this is for the future, I have been doing some research into what calibers the guns were available in, and one of them really caught my eye. It seems that some of them were chambered for a cartridge called the .45-85-285. That is to say, .45 caliber, 85 grains if back powder and a 285 grain bullet. Wondering about the specifics of the cartridge, I was surprised to find the following information... "It is a Colt propritary cartridge which is interchangeable and the cartridge dimensions are identical with the Winchester 45-70 and can be safely used." This is how the cartridge is described in the description of one I found for sale that I won't be able to afford anytime soon. But what I am wondering is pretty simple, is this . 45-85 truly and safely interchangeable with the .45-70? I noticed the larger powder charge, but also the much lighter bullet, so I assume the pressures are probably pretty much the same. I am assuming the lighter bullet means that the rifling is probably different in the Colt than what would be found in guns actually chambered for Government round, which for a handloading is no big deal. BUT, does anyone out there know if these cartridges are interchangeable? Can the Government round be safely fired in a Lighting, or would even "Trapdoor" loads be too hot? Or is the Colt loading actually hotter due to its greater powder charge even with the lighter bullet and it would blow up a a Trapdoor? For that matter, do they really use the same brass? The odds that when I finally do get a big Lightning that it be in this caliber are remote, but I am curious. Any experts out there who may know something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 Try asking here https://forum.cartridgecollectors.org/t/45-85-marlin/3877 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex Jones, SASS 2263 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I found the write up below in Cartridges of the World by Frank Barnes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 My research shows that the 45-85 Colt and 45-85 Marlin were based on the 45-70 cartridge (Case length of 2.1 inches) while the 45-85 Winchester was based on the 45-90 cartridge.(Case length of 2.4 inches) I have found inferences that the 45-85 colt used small vs larger primers but I can't find enough reliable information to confirm that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chili Pepper Pete 11917 Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I have a Colt Lighting in 45-85-285 and will share what I think I know. Yes it will shoot 45-70 cases just fine, I currently use a 300 GR bullet and as much 777 as I can cram in there. The problem with the cartridge vs a regular 45-70 is the speed. The colt has a 1-26 twist rate. The bore slugs at .460. Every 45-70 round i put thru key holes. The only way I was able to stop the key holing was a light bullet going as fast as I could safely push it. I have played with the idea of using the Remington lead hollow base 45 colt bullet at 255 GR figuring the hollow base and soft lead would bump up and seal plus be close to the original weight bullet. But for now have used the Hunter 300 Gr trundicated. The gun itself is big and heavy so there is no harsh recoil. Its amazing to shoot as its a top eject and these huge 45-70 cases go shooting out over your head as you fire. I will post some pictures of mine when I have a chance. Hope this helps, Chili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE Posted November 7, 2019 Share Posted November 7, 2019 I ran into the same issue years ago with the 1886 Wichester in .45-90, which was an express cartridge.. Light bullet and a rifling twist rate to match. I purchased the gun with a barrel that was bored out and ruined, so I ordered a new barrel with a twist rate to accommodate 500 grain bullets. It kicked like a mule! You should do that when you get the Lightning. I wanna watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted November 7, 2019 Author Share Posted November 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Chili Pepper Pete 11917 said: I have a Colt Lighting in 45-85-285 and will share what I think I know. Yes it will shoot 45-70 cases just fine, I currently use a 300 GR bullet and as much 777 as I can cram in there. The problem with the cartridge vs a regular 45-70 is the speed. The colt has a 1-26 twist rate. The bore slugs at .460. Every 45-70 round i put thru key holes. The only way I was able to stop the key holing was a light bullet going as fast as I could safely push it. I have played with the idea of using the Remington lead hollow base 45 colt bullet at 255 GR figuring the hollow base and soft lead would bump up and seal plus be close to the original weight bullet. But for now have used the Hunter 300 Gr trundicated. The gun itself is big and heavy so there is no harsh recoil. Its amazing to shoot as its a top eject and these huge 45-70 cases go shooting out over your head as you fire. I will post some pictures of mine when I have a chance. Hope this helps, Chili Thanks, Chili. It's always best to hear from someone who has one. If and when get one if these things, IF it winds up being in this caliber, it sounds to me like I won't be able to use the same loading I run in my already owned .45-70's. Sounds like the very slow moving 405 grain bullets will not work right. That being said, I did find several loadings using lighter bullets going much faster that are still rated as "Trapdoor safe" that will probably work just fine. Don't know if I'll switch to that for everything, or make a separate load for my theoretical to be owned someday gun. Of course, when I finally DO save up enough to get one, I'll probably only be able find ones chambered for .38-56... Beware the Lightning bug. It starts out innocently enough. You want to get one, just to have one, but have no plans to use more than occasionally. The next thing you know, it's your favorite main match rifle. And the next thing you know after that, is that you have more of them. .45 Colt, AWA .44-40, AWA .32-20, Colt .44-40, Colt .22 Long, Colt Once you get that Small Frame one, the desire to "fill out" the collection becomes insatiable. It is inevitable that you want to get a Large Frame rifle, as well as one of those rarer than hen's teeth AWA "Lightning Bolt" pistols. Course, I'll have to wait 50 years for that last one. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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