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Ringer

Favorite black mz 38 special load

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Ok what is it?

How much and what weight bullet?

How's the smoke?

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12 grains of ABMZ under a 105 is a light load that rolls gobs of white smoke.  ABMZ is the absolute cleanest burning substitute out there.  But it does make a lot of smoke.  At 12 grains you will easily make smoke factor.

 

Edited by Ruff Kut

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17 minutes ago, Ruff Kut said:

12 grains of ABMZ under a 105 is a light load that rolls gobs of white smoke.  ABMZ is the absolute cleanest burning substitute out there.  But it does make a lot of smoke.  At 12 grains you will easily make smoke factor.

 

No problem with primers not reseating?

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None

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50 minutes ago, Ruff Kut said:

12 grains of ABMZ under a 105 is a light load that rolls gobs of white smoke.  ABMZ is the absolute cleanest burning substitute out there.  But it does make a lot of smoke.  At 12 grains you will easily make smoke factor.

 

I wouldn't say easily. C'mon guys, make some SMOKE! 

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125 grain Hy-Tek coated bullet. Fill the case to the base of the bullet so that when seated there is very little if any compression.  Will knock down pistol and rifle KDs no problem.

 

AND just the right amount of recoil

 

 

Edited by Sedalia Dave
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On 11/2/2019 at 5:05 PM, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

I wouldn't say easily. C'mon guys, make some SMOKE! 

I am  not sure how much you have shot MZ.  I have run a little over 30 LBs of it.  I will stand by my statement.  12 grains of MZ will make significantly more smoke than 15 grains of Goex.  You WILL easily make smoke factor.

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15 minutes ago, Ruff Kut said:

I am  not sure how much you have shot MZ.  I have run a little over 30 LBs of it.  I will stand by my statement.  12 grains of MZ will make significantly more smoke than 15 grains of Goex.  You WILL easily make smoke factor.

 

Yep Black MZ and APP both easily out smoke real BP

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2 hours ago, Ruff Kut said:

I am  not sure how much you have shot MZ.  I have run a little over 30 LBs of it.  I will stand by my statement.  12 grains of MZ will make significantly more smoke than 15 grains of Goex.  You WILL easily make smoke factor.

Oh my gosh!

Shot black mz today at our Tuesday match.

Much more smokey than app and way more than the real thing.

 

Guess I'll use it in shotgun to get rid of it.:blink:

 

Back to black.

 

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There is a reason I had to leave the MZ behind!  That smoke is CRAZY!  I still have about 8 pounds on the shelf in case of absolute worst case I am out of everything else emergency.

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3 hours ago, Ruff Kut said:

I am  not sure how much you have shot MZ.  I have run a little over 30 LBs of it.  I will stand by my statement.  12 grains of MZ will make significantly more smoke than 15 grains of Goex.  You WILL easily make smoke factor.

Remember, the smoke factor is the MINIMUM amount of smoke required. It's also based on a 145 gr SPG lubed bullet and compressed powder all of which increase the smoke produced.

"Contestants are expected to understand they will contend with smoke OBSCURED targets". shb pg 9 This SHOULD BE the standard!

Your 12 gr load ( which won't even fill a .32 case) might make some smoke down in Foggy Bottom Creek in 100% humidity but out here in the desert you would hardly notice it and it certainly won't obscure targets!:D

I'll stand by my statement too!

And, to answer your question, I'm sure I've shot more APP and MZ than that in one pistol alone.:P

 

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7 hours ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Yep Black MZ and APP both easily out smoke real BP

That's why you load less in a case than real BP, so the smoke will be equal.

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Most "champions" are using about 6gr. of it. 

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14 minutes ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Most "champions" are using about 6gr. of it. 

???????????? Please provide details!!!!!

6 gr by volume??????

Or are you being sarcastic?:ph34r:

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I normally shoot smokeless, but there is one match that I shoot subs. My .38 special load is 9.5g Black MZ and a 125 HiTek coated bullet. 

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11 hours ago, Major BS Walker Regulator said:

That's why you load less in a case than real BP, so the smoke will be equal.

 

Now where's the fun in that?? :D 

 

Only filler I use in my 38 specials is more powder.;) Doesn't matter if it is real BP, APP, Black MZ or Tripple 7.  

 

I fully expect to contend with smoke obscured targets. Nothing makes me smile more than a TO asking me how I managed to hit targets he couldn't see. :)

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1 hour ago, Beartrap SASS#57175 said:

???????????? Please provide details!!!!!

6 gr by volume??????

Or are you being sarcastic?:ph34r:

Notice I didn't say it makes smoke standard. 

 

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3 hours ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Most "champions" are using about 6gr. of it. 

:rolleyes:

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1 hour ago, Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 said:

Notice I didn't say it makes smoke standard. 

 

I loaded some at 6.5.

Was smokey enough according to some full time soot lords I shoot with.

Problem was it wouldn't reseat the primers in the pistols and wouldn't knock the plates off the texas star. At least not reliably. 

13 gr is all my 38's would hold under the bullet I was shooting. That was "shuck and jive" smokey. Many long tendrils of white obscuring the targets for everyone.

 

I will stick with black at least in the pistols and rifle.

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33 minutes ago, Ringer said:

I loaded some at 6.5.

Was smokey enough according to some full time soot lords I shoot with.

Problem was it wouldn't reseat the primers in the pistols and wouldn't knock the plates off the texas star. At least not reliably. 

13 gr is all my 38's would hold under the bullet I was shooting. That was "shuck and jive" smokey. Many long tendrils of white obscuring the targets for everyone.

 

I will stick with black at least in the pistols and rifle.

 

That's where I've landed with all the subs I've tried.  Triple 7, Pinnacle, Black MZ and APP have all been relegated to shotgun.  Full .38 case of Graf's Reenactor under 125's for rifle and revolvers.

 

My perception of "more smoke" with the subs vs. real BP is that while there may be the same volume of smoke with any given load, the subs all (in my opinion) have whiter, denser smoke than any real BP that I've tried.  This renders the smoke produced by the subs harder to see thru than the same amount(volume) of real BP smoke.

Edited by Titus A. Gnatsass, SASS #71705
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I’d buy a lb to try it, if I could find it for less than $28 per pound. Anybody know a cheaper source?

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You can get Black MZ from Sportsman Warehouse for $9.99 / lb.

I used to load 9.5 gr behind a 125 g bullet.. Now only use it for sg.

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Like Traveller said, Sportsman Warehouse.  The price is the selling point.  $9.99 a pound and a 10% military discount?  Makes it hard not to at least give it a try.

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I exchanged emails with Alliant on Monday.  Black MZ was discontinued last year.  The supplies are rapidly dwindling.  I looked at Sportsman's Warehouse and out of stock.

 

 

 

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I've easily bought 130 pounds of the stuff, and keep a fair stock on hand. :)

Get yer hands on some of the Sportsman's Warehouse $10 off a $50 purchase or $30 off a $150 purchase promotional coupons, and sometimes they'll even add your military discount on top of that.

 

Oddly enough, they recommend "seating the ball firmly on top of the powder" in muzzleloaders, but -0- compression in cartridges, go figure.

 

I've heard a lot of rumors about it being discontinued, but it seems production may have simply stopped temporarily because they had a large backstock.

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SWcoupon.jpg

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Here is the text of the email from Alliant. Believe what you want.

 

RE: Alliant Powder - Ask the Expert Form

Trash

x

Alliant Reloading <Alliant.Reloading@vistaoutdoor.com>

Tue, Nov 5, 11:58 AM (2 days ago)

to me

Karl,
It is true.
We discontinued the Black MZ over a year ago.
Thanks,
Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
 (800)379-1732

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Too bad about MZ being discontinued.  It made inexpensive SG shells, was non-corrosive and not hydroscopic.  I liked it for matches when I was making a road trip. 

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I sent an email this morning myself, and just got the same answer :(
 
Rob,
The Black MZ was discontinued over a year ago. This product will not be coming back.
Thanks,
Duane V. /Technical Service Representative
2299 Snake River Ave.
Lewiston, ID 83501
Alliant/Blazer/CCI/Speer
 (800)379-1732

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