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Pedersoli Colt lightning feed issues


Mad Cap Zack

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Howdy, I picked up a Pedersoli Colt Lightning Rep. It jams up when I start to push the pump forward to chamber the next round. I then have too tap the bolt forward to close the action. It only does this during live fire. If you cycle rounds through it without firing it, it doesn't hang up at all. But fire the round and the next round will hang up. It does this before the cartridge touches the chamber. The bolt will travel less than an inch forward and stop. Does any one know how to fix this?

Thanks

 

 

 

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I’m not familiar with the rifle, but sounds like the internals are reacting to recoil, causing something part to move and interfere with a clear path for bolt travel.  

 

I wouldn’t force it either too much, or too many times.

 

Have you searched YouTube for any technical videos showing dis- and re-assembly instructions and troubleshooting tips.

 

WHAT CALIBER is your rifle?

 

Does it cause any changes if the mag tube is full or close to empty?  (Possibly cartridge stop/catch problem causing early exit of the next round in the magazine?)

Just guesses, all.

 

 Cat Brules

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7 hours ago, Mad Cap Zack said:

Howdy, I picked up a Pedersoli Colt Lightning Rep. It jams up when I start to push the pump forward to chamber the next round. I then have too tap the bolt forward to close the action. It only does this during live fire. If you cycle rounds through it without firing it, it doesn't hang up at all. But fire the round and the next round will hang up. It does this before the cartridge touches the chamber. The bolt will travel less than an inch forward and stop. Does any one know how to fix this?

Thanks

 

 

 

What cartridge? The length of an unfired round is longer than a case being ejected. If a .357 Magnum, it may need magnum cases and long enough bullets.

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PM Roger Rapid and ask him to send you his Pedersoli Lightning manual. He’s at Bordertown right now so might be kind of busy. What caliber is your Lightning? Cartridge Overall Length is critical to get your Lightning to feed well.

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It's chambered in 45 long Colt. I reload and used brand new Star Line cases Nickle and brass. The bullets are by Missouri bullet company and are of the same type recommended by Pedersoli. I also use a Lee factory crimp die. The bullets are seated to the recommended OAL out of the manual.

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Measure the overall length of the reloaded round. If it is larger than 1.6, that's your issue.  Lightning's like OAL of 1.58 down to 1..55 round ogive with  1/8" flat point nose bullets

 

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Cartridge OAL is 1.56 Flat top of bullet is 1/4. The it is when the round starts to chamber. The bullets I'm using are Missouri Cowboy # 8, 180 gn RNFP. I did notice I could crimp them a little more. Keep in mind it will cycle great when not firing but hangs up when firing. See pics of bullet and rifle chamber hung up.

Anyone thoughts on this?

Thanks

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What happens if only load one round in the magazine, Cycle and fire the one round and then cycle the action like there was another round in the gun. Does it still cause problems? Or is it only when there is a live round in the magazine?

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Well this may or may not be your problem but I had a Pedersoli Lightning in .45 Colt with just about the same problem and I called Taylor’s and Company, who sells parts for them and got a new lifter/elevator. Turns out the rifle that I had had the wrong lifter/elevator and when I replaced it, it fed like it should.

 

One way you can tell if that’s part of the problem is look at the cartridge after you’ve unjammed the rifle and see if the brass has imprints from the end of the lifter. If it is the wrong lifter there will be two dents in the brass that the lifter left as the cartridge was being fed into the chamber. In your photo you can see the cartridge partly in the chamber on top of the lifter and already having the extractor lever engaged with the rim of the cartridge. 
 

Is the rifle a new purchase or did you buy it used? 

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Mad Cap Zack - I sent you a PM so you can get assembly/disassembly manual (Thanks Yul !)

 

Sounds like one of several problems - could be that: 1) someone removed your ejector plates and put the left one back in the right side and vice versa  - this will improperly position the cartridge between the lifter and the ejector plates (which act as guides when cartridge is being loaded (can't tell from your photo). 2) that the lifter is not coming up high enough. 3) that cartridge is not sliding up against the face of the bolt (check to see if firing pin is sticking out of bolt face and preventing rim of cartridge from sliding up bolt face and into extractor (can see in photo), 4) or.... ???

 

I sent you my cell phone info in PM - can you text me a video of what's happing?

 

Roger Rapid

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Mad Cap Zack...

 

Or... 4) if you are not the original owner, a previous owner might have tried to ease the fit of the lifter in the lower trigger assembly. The lifter should be a good friction-fit in the trigger assembly so that it stays in place after it comes to its most UP position. You can test this by: a) have no cartridges in the rifle, b) open action fully, c) close bolt about 1/2" to 5/8", and d) push down on lifter with a stick or pencil. There should be some reasonable resistance before it can be pushed down. (If the lifter goes down too easily, it will allow the cartridge to cock upwards at a bad angle, as shown in your photo, rather than being pushed into the chamber.) If this is the case, the problem is easily solved by simply replacing the lifter (as long as previous owner modified the lifter and not the lower trigger assembly frame).

 

PS: I don't see this as a crimping or OAL issue. The Lightning is very forgiving of OAL, as long as you do not exceed the designed OAL of a .45LC cartridge (1.600") the length should not be a problem.

 

RR

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Looking at the picture of the bullet from the top - it looks like there is a bit of brass showing which just might cause a problem. I would increase crimp until it forms a rounded shoulder into the crimp groove.

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Let me echo the idea that Lightnings need to be clean.  I've got five of the things, and cleanliness is vital to proper functionality.

This is especially true for the one I have in .45 Colt.   It's an AWA, and to make a long story short, I went too long between cleanings, and gunk accumulated in the firing pin channel, causing occasional misfires.   Flushing it with Gunscrubber fixed that problem but ever since then I have always been very meticulous about keeping the thing clean.

 

My .44-40's, one Colt and one AWA, seem to be less sensitive to being not clean, but I still keep 'em that way.  Same for the .32-20, also a Colt.

I have not yet fired my .22 Long, but I'm gonna assume that it'll be similar to the .45 in that regard.

 

And yes, I primarily shoot smokeless in these things.   I won't try black in the .45, but have used it in one of the .44-40's an it worked just fine.

 

Good luck.

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I have one in .357.

Sold it to a fellow, because everything else I shoot is .45 Colt.

He complained of jams, mis-fires etc. so I refunded his money.

Took it to the range and shot 50 rounds of .357 cartridges without a hiccup, then questioned him.

Turned out he was using a notoriously hard primer and .38 Spl. cases.:rolleyes: 

Next time, I'll question the potential buyer to ensure they have a better grasp of the care and feeding of a Lightning.

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On 10/28/2019 at 7:56 AM, Roger Rapid said:

Mad Cap Zack...

 

Or... 4) if you are not the original owner, a previous owner might have tried to ease the fit of the lifter in the lower trigger assembly. The lifter should be a good friction-fit in the trigger assembly so that it stays in place after it comes to its most UP position. You can test this by: a) have no cartridges in the rifle, b) open action fully, c) close bolt about 1/2" to 5/8", and d) push down on lifter with a stick or pencil. There should be some reasonable resistance before it can be pushed down. (If the lifter goes down too easily, it will allow the cartridge to cock upwards at a bad angle, as shown in your photo, rather than being pushed into the chamber.) If this is the case, the problem is easily solved by simply replacing the lifter (as long as previous owner modified the lifter and not the lower trigger assembly frame).

 

PS: I don't see this as a crimping or OAL issue. The Lightning is very forgiving of OAL, as long as you do not exceed the designed OAL of a .45LC cartridge (1.600") the length should not be a problem.

 

RR

 

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Howdy Folks, well I re crimped my bullets to the point I thought I was going to damage the case and the case rim lip exposure was cut in half rolling it into the cannelure  further. I still had 2 rds hang up on the case lip and I could tell since it pealed the case down some. Also on some rds they would stop just before being elevated to the top where bolt would start forward to chamber them. Your Thoughts?

Thanks

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MCP... As I mentioned previously, I don't think its a crimping problem. Still sounding more like the lifter not staying fully up - or possibly not coming fully up. Did you check the lifter's friction-fit as I suggested in previous post?

RR

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Roger, so I checked out the lifter just as you said and there was some resistance when pushing it down. I've attached pics of the rifle's lifter without a cartridge. It seems to be working OK. Also I bought the rifle brand new. Question, what bullets do you fire in yours?

Thanks

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Mad-Cap Zack... Thx for photo. While it appears that lifter is coming all the way up, it is hard to tell its precise height from the photos. Helps to know rifle is brand new so friction fit of lifter should not be the problem. I'd like to suggest that you try some RNFP. Regarding your request, 

 

I'm using a 185g RNFP (with 4.5g Trail boss) and I find they feed better than tapered bullets. Did you check that the firing pin is not getting stuck in its forward position and interfering with the cartridge's rim as it comes up? (The firing pin in the Pedersoli Lightning has a spring - so it should not stay in the forward position.)

 

I'm sending you a PM with contact info - let's communicate real-time.

RR

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  • 1 month later...

Roger Rapid I have just purchased a Pedersoli 38-357 Pump. I read where you had a manual to disassemble the rifle. I feel I will need one in the Future. 

I would like to have one and would gladly pay you for it as it appears you go way beyond even what would be considered the cowboy way.

Thanks    BIGDOG440209@aol.com

Stubby Steve

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Stubby Steve...

 

Sorry for delay. On its way to you via email - no charge (glad to help my pards).

 

RR

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  • 2 weeks later...
 

It's chambered in 45 long Colt. I reload and used brand new Star Line cases Nickle and brass. The bullets are by Missouri bullet company and are of the same type recommended by Pedersoli. I also use a Lee factory crimp die. The bullets are seated to the recommended OAL out of the manual.

"Recommended" COL is not a guiding number, since the brass length and bullet are variables. You have to judge the quality of the roll crimp, with the case mouth clearly rolled into the crimp groove and unable to snag in the action. I wonder about your case lengths. I trim mine to a uniform range, depending on what length will run in all the guns using that cartridge. I would hold the nickel and reserve those for your gun belt.

 

Measure the case rim thickness and compare to the spec or brass that runs okay.

 

Consider that you probably run the slide differently when firing versus testing whether the magazine will clear. You may be outrunning the action, or are off on your timing.

 

My Lightning gun is an Uberti .357 prepared by Longhunter, but I believe I have some insight re a Pedersoli 45 Colt. My 45 Colt is a JM Marlin, which broke and hopelessly jammed at the last match, so it's always something. Broke my shotgun (again) too.

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Roger Rapid, Limpin' Leroy from "5 Dogs" here _ as I mentioned at 5 Dogs I also have a Lightning in .45 Colt that is a AWA originally but reworked assembled by "El Rod" (I think) in Reno,NV.  as a side note, he removed the AWA scroll on the side of the receiver and replaced it with the Prancing "Colt Pony".  Looks pretty good.  I really did not care for the AWA emblem.  Have not shot it much but would love to shoot more.  I'd like a copy of you Manuel too please? January 3rd we are headed back ti "5 Dogs" for the January shoot.  Stay warm & dry !

 

Limpy

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Limpin Leroy...

 

I think I'm going to 5Dogs on Jan 4, but not sure yet. I don't have a disassembly manual for AWA, just for Uberti, Pedersoli, and Taurus Lightnings. The AWA, Taurus, Pedersoli, and Uberti Lightnings are all similar on the outside, but pretty different on the inside.

 

And let's take this offline since it's pretty much a conversation between us. PM me please with your email and phone.  

 

Roger

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Major General Shagnasty...

Sorry, I missed your post before. Yes, the Lightning rifles - especially the Pedersoli version - can be made to run flawlessly. I have several and I have zero feeding issues with any of them. I'm noticing with folks just starting on Lightnings that the problems are typically the shooter's and not the rifle's. Very important to be consistent on a full forward and full backward motion, and to use the right length cartridge. Other than that, they can fly.

RR

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/31/2019 at 7:57 AM, Roger Rapid said:

Major General Shagnasty...

Sorry, I missed your post before. Yes, the Lightning rifles - especially the Pedersoli version - can be made to run flawlessly. I have several and I have zero feeding issues with any of them. I'm noticing with folks just starting on Lightnings that the problems are typically the shooter's and not the rifle's. Very important to be consistent on a full forward and full backward motion, and to use the right length cartridge. Other than that, they can fly.

RR

I did buy an AWA .45 and have been practicing with dummy rounds. It will fly when I get the timing correct. I have found that a dry lube is far better than a wet lube of the action, and windchester brass works better than star lite, might be the diameter is smaller ww brass.

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  • 5 weeks later...
On 12/31/2019 at 7:57 AM, Roger Rapid said:

Major General Shagnasty...

Sorry, I missed your post before. Yes, the Lightning rifles - especially the Pedersoli version - can be made to run flawlessly. I have several and I have zero feeding issues with any of them. I'm noticing with folks just starting on Lightnings that the problems are typically the shooter's and not the rifle's. Very important to be consistent on a full forward and full backward motion, and to use the right length cartridge. Other than that, they can fly.

RR

Hi Rodger Rapid,  Do you have any experance with the real Colt lightnings?. I have accuired 4 and one needs some help. The one that needs help is a year 1885  with out dust cover, the slide lock release is missing and I have been looking for blue prints or a drawing of the part. I can make it if I had something to go on. Any help would be nice.

 

 

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MGS... I've worked on a few original Colt Lightnings but don't have any extra/spare parts or detailed mechanical drawings of original parts. I have a few photos of some parts but not of the one you need. I'll PM you. If you have another Colt Lightning, take measurements of the part you need from one of the other Colt Lightnings you have.

RR

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