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Loading round ball over BlackMZ in C45S case


Warden Callaway

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Nothing new.  I've done it before and couldn't remember why it didn't work well for me.

 

1294373299_RoundballC45SloadOct2019.jpg.5cf9968d1ac963b35c88e62a6fe80463.jpg

 

1cc BlackMZ, 1/8" dry felt wad, 451 round ball.  Crimp below belt line. 

 

51776655_RoundBallC45SOct2019.jpg.0384e6b58e50bd56627cb500a5ad2bc2.jpg

 

Shot well enough but 6" below point of aim.  I'd be hitting Evil Roy in the gonads if at all. 

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Maybe it's the Black MZ?

 

I loaded about 20 yesterday just to make sure(planning to shoot them at SE Regional) with about 20gr Graf's FFFg, a lube wad, under round ball and hit all my six inch targets at about 4 yards.

 

Dangit, now I gotta go try again from further away and make sure I'm not crazy... 

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This was at 10 steps holding with two hands over rest.   I don't think we set any targets closer than that.   My 200g bullets will print a little low at this distance.  

 

20 gr of 3fg maybe hotter.  Larger diameter balls may help too. :wacko:

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21 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

This was at 10 steps holding with two hands over rest.   I don't think we set any targets closer than that.   My 200g bullets will print a little low at this distance.  

 

20 gr of 3fg maybe hotter.  Larger diameter balls may help too. :wacko:

 

Ah, the .451 didn't jump out at me, mine are .454(too big I know) out of a pair of birdhead Vaquero's. 3F may be hotter, but I've been using that for everything but shotgun lately with great results.

I'll try and shoot a few at some cardboard after lunch. nm, your point is likely BlackMZ and I'll probably never own any of that.

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When loading RB in a cartridge case I would run the ball through a sizing die.  The die cuts a flat spot on the bullet that is perfect for seating and crimping depth.  I think (it's been many years ago) I would run a .454 through a .452 die, but maybe it was a .457 through a .454 die.  

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I may add,  the balls were soft lead that I use in my 51 Confederate Navy 44s.  

 

These performed well enough just low to point of aim in this gun. I don't like to use Kentucky windage and not willing to change the front sight to zero this load in.  I can cast 200 gr Lee round flat and size to 452 or 454 and load with no lube over BlackMZ. 

 

I got rid of the tight throat Rooogers.  The other guns have larger throats.  Odd, I have 3 Colt SAA in 45Colt.  One made in 62, another in 71 and a third made in 2019.  All have throats measuring 457-459!

 

These were shot through my Cimarron Eleminator 8 45Colt.   I need to clean it and check for leading,  etc. 

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So I did a little test anyway. 19-20gr Goex FFg and a wonder wad in both. Both shot from RNV Birdhead's with 3.75" barrels at 5-6 yards(best guess), duelist, no rest.

 

135 grain Barnstormer .452 on the left and 140gr .454 round balls on the right. I pulled off on the first shot with the round ball, but the rest were fine height wise. The barnstormers as you can see all were low. So now I'm not sure if want to load up round balls or barnstormers for this weekend and not sure whether to use FFg or FFFg.  :unsure:

 

 

and scratch all of that, both round balls and the Barnstormers shoot dead on through one gun and 4 inches low through the other; testing error LOL.

rbbs.jpg.09bee7df10f4cf226c2345ba522bb84f.jpg

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1 hour ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Just curious, Warden.  What would be the reason to load round ball in cartridges rather than regular RNFP boolits with cannelure groove?

 

Just makes for about the lightest projectile possible in a given caliber.  

 

Nothing I've invented.  It's been done for as long as cartridges have been invented.  Others are making these loads on a regular basis.   I was loading with 200g RNFP BULLETS and ran out.  Just decided to load 10 with round balls while I was setup. 

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For loading Round Ball in a .45 case, I have always loaded a .454 Ball and crimped at the equator.  Worked a treat.  Understanding, ALL I cared about was minute of Pie Plate.  Anything better than that was Cake.

 

PS:  I really really like the 130Gr Barnstormer.  My few Suppository Shooters are sighted for the Barnstormer.

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10 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

ALL I cared about was minute of Pie Plate.

 

I really like mine to shoot more in the minute of cup cake.  I feel it gives me more room for error - especially important when shooting at the last tombstone on the rack that's about the size of a soup can.

 

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I'm with you Warden, especially from a rest I want minute of cupcake.

 

 

Because when I get to going a little fast shooting gunfighter I'm usually minute of outhouse...

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You guys really should test your loads at match speed. When going fast you probably aren’t going to refine your sight picture as much, probably going to break the shot with the front sight sticking up a bit, so the point of impact is going to be higher.  

 

I like groups that are shot over a rest to look like Warden Callaway’s first post.  Shooting fast will bring that group up nicely.

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27 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

You guys really should test your loads at match speed. When going fast you probably aren’t going to refine your sight picture as much, probably going to break the shot with the front sight sticking up a bit, so the point of impact is going to be higher.  

 

I like groups that are shot over a rest to look like Warden Callaway’s first post.  Shooting fast will bring that group up nicely.

 

512959732_Eliminator810shotsSept2019.jpg.50b8375631c0f6946d3420aa20ed3ad1.jpg

 

Here are the first 10 shots from the same Eliminator 8 that I shot the round ball loads at the beginning of this post.  I'm ok with it shooting a bit low for the reason you mentioned.  But I still want an accurate load and close to point of aim. 

 

I shoot with folks that have to remember to apply a lot of Kentucky windage to hit near center - often times one gun will shoot cockeyed one direction and other another. :blink:

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10 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I shoot with folks that have to remember to apply a lot of Kentucky windage to hit near center - often times one gun will shoot cockeyed one direction and other another. :blink:

 

Agreed.  Point of impact that is not in a vertical line with point of aim is something I don’t tolerate.  I have sold guns that had that problem.

 

Very few revolver misses are too low, most misses go high, a few miss wide even without intentional Kentucky windage.   Keeping the POI in a vertical line with POA helps to eliminate wide misses.  Sighting the gun to hit a bit low when shooting over a rest helps eliminate high misses.

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13 minutes ago, J-BAR #18287 said:

 I have sold guns that had that problem.

 

I sent a Taylor's Smoke Wagon Deluxe 44WCF back to Taylor's because it shot 10" to the left at 10 steps.  They corrected it.   The first Eliminator 8 shot at least 4" to the left.  I turned the barrel in a bit and got it to about 1" to the left. 

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2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I sent a Taylor's Smoke Wagon Deluxe 44WCF back to Taylor's because it shot 10" to the left at 10 steps.  They corrected it.   The first Eliminator 8 shot at least 4" to the left.  I turned the barrel in a bit and got it to about 1" to the left. 

 

Too common unfortunately among all brands of revolvers.  IMO, no gun should escape the factory with that much horizontal error.  1 “ right or left at 10 yards should be guaranteed.  Every fixed sighted Smith and Wesson I have ever shot can do that.  It would be a good marketing move for any manufacturer to provide a windage guarantee.

 

 I sold a Ruger SR1911 that shot 6” wide at 25 yards.   I called Ruger to send it back for adjustment and was told they would not mess with it because it was within their specs.  Only time I have ever been disappointed in Ruger’s service.

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