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Warden Callaway

New idea for loading cap gun cylinder off gun.

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Just seen this on eBay. 

 

1049787706_cylinderloaderOct2019.jpg.fba6b2160c694300d25bef0bee32b731.jpg

 

Comes specific to gun model.

 

Search on RMC Quick Six Revolver Loading

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I bought a vertical vise and was working on making something like that; life keeps getting in the way though.

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1 hour ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I bought a vertical vise and was working on making something like that; life keeps getting in the way though.

 

I thought of taking a large C-clamp and welding on a base.  Or two C-clamps welded end to end with one open one way and the other the other.  One would clamp it on a bench, the other to shove in balls.  The Acme threads would probably work better for pushing anyway. 

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Nice if you have the time to reload cylinders on a bench. However not so good for a match. I can reload my two Colt C&B Navies cylinders on the piece faster than one can reload with that device.  I use a tower of power, when I have the plenty of time. During a Match, not so much.

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At home I use my Lee C press with adapters I concocted. 

 

 

Works well at home where I have a bench inside to load on.  Plus the short loading lever on the 51 is not up to seating balls. I'm planning to get a SliX-Hand.

 

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I use what they come with the rammer on the pistol. I can load 2 pistols in the time it takes to run two shooters through at the unloading table. Where I usually charge the cylinders. Don't need no fancy contraption! 51 Navies, ROA's and 1858's

Ike

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Even with a lever rig like a Tower of Power or other similar device, the downward force necessary to seat the ball can sometimes be considerable for a stubborn ball.  I can't imagine trying to seat 6 at one time with only the force of you turning a screw.  I could be wrong.

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7 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Even with a lever rig like a Tower of Power or other similar device, the downward force necessary to seat the ball can sometimes be considerable for a stubborn ball.  I can't imagine trying to seat 6 at one time with only the force of you turning a screw.  I could be wrong.

 

Think of how much pressure is developed tightening a bench vise. Or a clamp.  I can see it working.  When I looked again, the same company offers the same press with a larger handle. For a few dollars more.

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I've got a question about this.  I've seen that there is a way to load the powder, wad and ball in a piece of flammable paper (like rolling papers) then all you have to do at a match is press it into the cylinder.  Is this not true?  I would think that back in the day they would've had a quick way to reload during a fight.

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11 minutes ago, Tequila Chase said:

I've got a question about this.  I've seen that there is a way to load the powder, wad and ball in a piece of flammable paper (like rolling papers) then all you have to do at a match is press it into the cylinder.  Is this not true?  I would think that back in the day they would've had a quick way to reload during a fight.

 

Yes it is. Smokey Dave just posted pictures(on Facebook) of a jig he has made to do this with, it's pretty darn slick. Hey, @Smokey Dave would you mind sharing your paper cartridge maker here?

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I have been using the Powder Inc Loader with great success .

Some use the Dick Dastardly  Tower of power press with great success also .

I prefer to load off the gun with multiple  cylinders myself 

Works for me . LOL 

 

Screenshot_20171224-160645.thumb.png.ac63bb5e62f65de4e5d900632e7ac96e.png

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Oh horsefeathers.  This device is an answer desperately seeking a problem.  Contrary to Lefty, I load exclusively with a Tower of Power (Shameless Plug for DDD).  Of course, my Main Match guns are SNUBBIES and do not have a loading lever attached.  Trust me .... I can ram 5 balls a lot faster than one could hope to screw that loader down.  I also am able to set a specific seating depth.  Rams the same every time.  I would suggest if one were in fact considering this device, send ME the check instead.  That way, at least one of us would be happy with the purchase.

 

Tequila:  NO.  Back in the day, nobody reloaded a percussion revolver inna fight.  Super good way to get killed really quick.  Back in the day the common reload was to grab another fully loaded revolver.  Was not uncommon for fighting men to carry as many as six revolvers on their person and another two in Pommel holsters.

 

Making paper cartridges is a true GROAN.  Were I in a situation where I suspected the need for a reload, I'd just carry charged cylinders.  Or ... better yet, a crane fed 45 with moon clips.

 

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3 minutes ago, Tequila Chase said:

I've got a question about this.  I've seen that there is a way to load the powder, wad and ball in a piece of flammable paper (like rolling papers) then all you have to do at a match is press it into the cylinder.  Is this not true?  I would think that back in the day they would've had a quick way to reload during a fight.

 

During the civil war pre-made paper cartridges were quite common.  The 1863 sharps rifle required them. On the battle field they were easier to work with than loose powder and ball as you didn't have to measure the powder, worry that your powder flask would explode due to an errant spark, and you didn't have to keep your pistol upright to use them.

For CAS where you have plenty of room to work you don't save much time using them. They are a little labor intensive to make. IIRC Warden Callaway posted a video a while back on how to make them.

 

image.png.f6fd3c8ab049f04dc57805c4d93423a2.pngimage.png.6faaa6978a0e248356f0c44e5600c67b.png

 

image.thumb.png.00d689885463a18e02dd06b3d2204910.png

Winslow Homer, “Filling Cartridges at the United States Arsenal, at Watertown, Massachusetts" from Harper's WeeklyNew York: Harper's Magazine Co., July 20, 1861Newberry folio A 5 .392 v. 5

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Pretty easy to turn the handle and load 5 at a time. I just need a better base to put under the cylinder.

 

 

 

 

20191015_163132.jpg

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Here is the least labour intensive method I've seen to make paper cartridges. 

 

 

I gave this method a try using hair wraps instead of cigarette paper.  

 

885943759_Papercartridges1October2019.jpg.19327f6a9ac7bf2c4d772f876ad6817b.jpg

 

Balls are down in this picture. 

 

1368804390_Papercartridge2October2019.jpg.73197d6cc8a30d8f89d9f4321cdb188a.jpg

 

When seated, the top paper shears off. 

 

I shot this test sample. I cut the long tail short on first 6 and all went off fine.

 

The next 6 I left the tails long. 4 went off ok. One hang fire and one didn't set off on one cap but went off on second cap. 

 

I cut the tails on last 4 and all went off. 

 

If I actually use this cartridge wrap method,  I'm thinking it would be best to run a pick through the flash hole to break paper. 

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Anyone using such a device better never complain about me shooting Ruger Old Armies!!

 

:ph34r:

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2 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

Yes it is. Smokey Dave just posted pictures(on Facebook) of a jig he has made to do this with, it's pretty darn slick. Hey, @Smokey Dave would you mind sharing your paper cartridge maker here?

 

Hey TC. Here's my paper cartridge mandrel and former. It's nothing new, just my own take on it. I just like making things myself, instead of paying money for them. LOL! 

 

I just roll my own to make it easier to load. No towers or presses for me. The lever hanging under the barrel was designed to load the gun. And it works just fine for me. The cartridges just make it a faster process, so posse duties don't suffer.

 

 

IMG_0172.jpg

IMG_0181.jpg

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Thanks Warden. That's me in the video too. That's how I was making my cartridges before I made the former. It works too, the cartridges are just neater using the former. And no twisted paper to tear off. 

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Did you make the former by casting the wooden stick into something like plaster?  Do tell. :P

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19 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said:

Did you make the former by casting the wooden stick into something like plaster?  Do tell. :P

You're pretty close Warden! I coated the mandrel with wax, and poured urethane resin around it. Now the mandrel and former are a perfect match. Tomorrow I'm going to make a silicone mold of the mandrel, and pour them in resin too. Then they'll be a matched set. I'm also going to make a silicon mold of the former also. Then I can duplicate them for my buddies, if they want a set. Eventually I'll make a set for my .36 caliber guns too.

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3 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

 

  

 

 

 

Balls are down in this picture. 

 

1368804390_Papercartridge2October2019.jpg.73197d6cc8a30d8f89d9f4321cdb188a.jpg

 

When seated, the top paper shears off. 

 

I shot this test sample. I cut the long tail short on first 6 and all went off fine.

 

The next 6 I left the tails long. 4 went off ok. One hang fire and one didn't set off on one cap but went off on second cap. 

 

I cut the tails on last 4 and all went off. 

 

If I actually use this cartridge wrap method,  I'm thinking it would be best to run a pick through the flash hole to break paper. 

 

Note: I'd not want to use this press with BP. I suggest a brass end when seating a ball onto powder in a steel cylinder. Sparks are bad. You only have to wrong once with this rig.

joe west

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4 hours ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said:

 

Oh horsefeathers.  This device is an answer desperately seeking a problem.  Contrary to Lefty, I load exclusively with a Tower of Power (Shameless Plug for DDD).  Of course, my Main Match guns are SNUBBIES and do not have a loading lever attached.  Trust me .... I can ram 5 balls a lot faster than one could hope to screw that loader down.  I also am able to set a specific seating depth.  Rams the same every time.  I would suggest if one were in fact considering this device, send ME the check instead.  That way, at least one of us would be happy with the purchase.

 

Tequila:  NO.  Back in the day, nobody reloaded a percussion revolver inna fight.  Super good way to get killed really quick.  Back in the day the common reload was to grab another fully loaded revolver.  Was not uncommon for fighting men to carry as many as six revolvers on their person and another two in Pommel holsters.

 

Making paper cartridges is a true GROAN.  Were I in a situation where I suspected the need for a reload, I'd just carry charged cylinders.  Or ... better yet, a crane fed 45 with moon clips.

 

This x 1,000.

 

My short barreled sheriffs have a loading lever that’s useless without a cheater bar. Over time, the cheater bar bent the levers so they wouldn’t latch. Been loading off the gun since. It’s a wash in terms of time (on gun vs off). 

 

I make paper cartridges for an original Sharps percussion carbine. I’d rather watch paint dry than make them for pistols for a match. 

 

Edited by Abilene Slim SASS 81783

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28 minutes ago, Joe West said:

 

Note: I'd not want to use this press with BP. I suggest a brass end when seating a ball onto powder in a steel cylinder. Sparks are bad. You only have to wrong once with this rig.

joe west

 

Ain't the ram built into the cap gun made of steel?   

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3 hours ago, Smokey Dave said:

 

Hey TC. Here's my paper cartridge mandrel and former. It's nothing new, just my own take on it. I just like making things myself, instead of paying money for them. LOL! 

 

I just roll my own to make it easier to load. No towers or presses for me. The lever hanging under the barrel was designed to load the gun. And it works just fine for me. The cartridges just make it a faster process, so posse duties don't suffer.

 

 

IMG_0172.jpg

IMG_0181.jpg

 

Mind posting the video here?

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1 minute ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Mind posting the video here?

 

Hey Sedalia Dave. The only video I have is the one Warden Callaway posted just up the page a bit.

 

It shows the way I made cartridges prior to making my former. But I am going to make a video of the former and mandrel in action pretty quick here.

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11 minutes ago, Smokey Dave said:

 

Hey Sedalia Dave. The only video I have is the one Warden Callaway posted just up the page a bit.

 

It shows the way I made cartridges prior to making my former. But I am going to make a video of the former and mandrel in action pretty quick here.

Thanks

Looking forward to watching it.

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@Smokey Dave  would you consider selling one of your mandrels and former?  

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I’m a fan of paper cartridges.

 

They’re simple and can be made pretty quickly.

 

You will find that cigarette papers are WAY too expensive to use.

 

Use thin rice paper, thin filter paper, tissue packing paper, “soft” newsprint, etc.

 

(Soak the paper in a water solution of potassium nitrate, and lay it to dry)

*** Many people skip his step, but it does make the paper more flammable.  

 

Cut the paper to shape for cartridges.

 

Roll the paper on a dowel to proper cylindrical shape and lightly glue the edge

 

Seal the bottom, pour in powder, glue the bullet into the top of the of the cartridge and it’s done.

 

You can make a “nipple pick” from a thin, proper “thickness” and length, of stiff piano wire (hardware store) to slide through the nipple to pierce the paper for reliable ignition.    This wire pick should be epoxied into a simple “handle” of some kind to prevent loss and make it easier to use.  

 

Cat Brules

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2 hours ago, Tequila Chase said:

@Smokey Dave  would you consider selling one of your mandrels and former?  

 

I don't want to cheat Smoking Dave out of a sale but it looks to me like a tapered stick and a tapered hole.  But there are at least two places to buy them ready made.

 

 

Here is a link to the ones made by Capandball guy 

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153674302542 

 

He also markets reproduction cartridge boxes. 

 

Found a third on flea-bay

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303298198820 

 

 

 

 

 

.

Edited by Warden Callaway
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7 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

Ain't the ram built into the cap gun made of steel?   

 

  It is, but it's smooth, cupped , sized to cleanly clear the cylinder, and holds the ball in the cupped area.

The pictured threaded bolt doesn't inspire me with the same confidence as the two different brands of off the frame loaders I use that have brass rams. 

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2 hours ago, Warden Callaway said:

 

I don't want to cheat Smoking Dave out of a sale but it looks to me like a tapered stick and a tapered hole.  But there are at least two places to buy them ready made.

 

 

Here is a link to the ones made by Capandball guy 

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F153674302542 

 

Found a third on flea-bay

 

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F303298198820 

 

 

Thanks for the links...FYI the first one comes from Budapest, Hungary.  The second one comes from the good ole USA.  

 

Lots of good ideas and advice on this post.

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1 hour ago, Joe West said:

 

  It is, but it's smooth, cupped , sized to cleanly clear the cylinder, and holds the ball in the cupped area.

The pictured threaded bolt doesn't inspire me with the same confidence as the two different brands of off the frame loaders I use that have brass rams. 

 

But what you're not seeing is that there is a cup at the end of the bolt. Also, the cylinder is indexing into alignment on the plate by the safety pins falling into holes. So the only difference is the threads that don't hit the cylinder anyway.  

 

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8 hours ago, Tequila Chase said:

@Smokey Dave  would you consider selling one of your mandrels and former?  

 

Hey Tequila, I would gladly sell you one. I'm going to make several this weekend, so I can pass them along.

 

Like the good Warden said though, there are other makers of them out there. I thank you for your interest either way!

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