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Quizcat

Cowboy Action Holster/Belt Rig Recommendationations Needed

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35 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

 

Mixing calibers only becomes an issue when you have very similar cartridges. 45 Colt and 44 WCF are close enough alike that they can be mixed up.

45 Colt will load into a 44 WCF rifle but will not chamber.

44WCF will chamber and fire in a 45 Colt but it is very hard on the brass and is not very accurate.

 

Did you actually shoot the 45 colt pistols? If not you should BEFORE buying a pair. Their felt recoil will be greater than 38 specials in the same size revolver.

 

+1

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39 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

 

Do many competitors shoot 45 Colt in their revolvers, and .357/.38spl in their rifles? 

Is there adequate room on gun belts to accommodate carrying 45 Colt and .357/.38spl?  

 

I got a chance over the weekend to compare the weight and balance and found that 4.62" barrel in 45 Colt was the most comfortable, most balanced, and lighter weight.  So, it has me thinking that the 45 Colt in 4.62" barrel is the better choice for me, especially with respect to the nerve damage in my fingers. 

 

I already do have a large assortment of loading dies, crimp dies, powder, etc...to load 45 Colt and/or .357/.38spl, so switching between calibers wouldn't be too difficult with respect to loading two different calibers.  45 Colt would be more expensive, but it may accommodate my abilities more easily in the revolvers. 

 

But, if mixing calibers is likely to cause me issues at staging, or with respect to my having adequate room on my gun belt for both calibers, then I need to reconsider the 45 colt chambering selection before I make a purchase.  

It's time you went to a match and see some of the rigs shooters are using.  Most shooters bring their ammo to the loading table on a loading strip or block though a few just leave ammo boxes on the loading table.   Sewn onto a belt or slide are some loops to hold rifle ammo in case a reload is needed.  I use slides that hold either 38s or 44s since I shoot both calibers.  I never see anyone loading from loops sewn on the back of their gun belt.  It's too clumsy.

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On 10/10/2019 at 5:44 AM, Quizcat said:

Anybody know of a good source for the "best value," but reasonably priced, belt/holster rig out there for Cowboy Action Shooting?

Hello and welcome

 

i will tell you my experiences :
When I started in 2007 with the CAS I bought cheap / cheap holsters and belts from "Track of the Wolf".
The Holster i bought from them(they were maid by Oklahoma Leather) cost about $ 80 with shipping to Germany.
A few years later I bought really good holsters from a leather maker in Germany, which cost around $ 150.
The first ones were very soft and just on the way stuck the revolver in the holster, I was not really happy.

The new ones are very hard and good to handle and i have no Problem to stuck the revolvers into the holster.

What I mean by that:
rather spend a little more money than the things later buy again !!!!
About bad tool you annoy yourself 3 times:
- the first time you use it
- second time if you throw it away
- The third time you buy new

that is something I also had to learn in the area of CAS, I also always want to spend as little money as possible because I have experienced very hard times but sometimes you have to jump over his shadow

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On 10/12/2019 at 11:38 AM, Quizcat said:

I assume Classic Cowboy is the most common event at most clubs, and that most newbies start out there, then probably move to competing in B-Western if they really get into the sport.  For B-Western, if you have to switch to a different rig to compete in only B-Western, it would get kind of pricey to have to invest in an altogether different rig (drop loop, with embellishments, etc...) just to compete in the B-Western category.  

 

QC,

Classic Cowboy is definitely NOT the most common category.  The most common categories are the simpler age-based categories that do not have extra holster or clothing requirements.  Two-Handed (Traditional Style) is more common to see than Single-Handed (Duelist Style) shooting.

Take some time to stroll through the handbook.  No need to get anything fancy, at all.  No need for "tooling".

 

You already have one 5-1/2" barreled Ruger.  To keep things simple, go with the same thing for your other gun.  I try to keep the feel of both guns the same as much as possible.  Especially since you are having a slight difficulty at the moment.  As in any new endeavor, keep things as simple as possible for yourself until you get you "sea legs" under you.

 

There are literally nearly 100 good gun leather makers out there, very familiar with what we need for CAS.  If I may make a suggestion, even though I don't own any of Jack Dixon's work, I've seen and handled enough of it.  His work is priced below what you usually find, and his turnaround time is reasonable.  https://www.facebook.com/Jacks-Leather-1441207002841046/

 

But, definitely get to a couple of matches first and get an idea of what you would like, before ordering anything.   Yep, been there, done that, got the t-shirt!

 

Edited by McCandless

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18 minutes ago, McCandless said:

 

 

There are literally nearly 100 good gun leather makers out there, very familiar with what we need for CAS.  If I may make a suggestion, even though I don't own any of Jack Dixon's work, I've seen and handled enough of it.  His work is priced below what you usually find, and his turnaround time is reasonable.  https://www.facebook.com/Jacks-Leather-1441207002841046/

 

 

 

Thanks for the tip on Jacks Leather.  I like the dual color and he seems to even be local to me (813 area code)

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New folks are often confused by the category descriptions in the Handbook; you are not the first to be confused by the Classic Cowboy and Cowboy categories.

 

You referred to Classic Cowboy as an “event”; some readers get the impression that the shooters are somehow segregated into categories when shooting so let’s clarify that point.

 

At a match, all participants shoot the same “stages”.  The same targets, same instructions.  Depending on the number of shooters at the match and other factors, you will probably be assigned to a group that we call a “posse”.  You will stay with that group for the entire match.  Shooters in the posse take turns shooting until everyone has completed the stage, then the posse moves to the next stage.  A typical stage has ten pistol shots, ten rifle, and four shotgun.  The stage instructions provide the details about gun order, shooting positions and target sequence.  Most clubs’ monthly matches consist of six stages.  The posse will usually have shooters from different categories; we are all mixed up but the results can be sorted by category so that we will have, say, a first place Gunfighter, second place Gunfighter, etc.  There are also awards or recognition of the overall top shooters.

 

I hope this is helpful to new folks who are trying to imagine how categories work.

 

One more point.  Some shooting sports have “classes” of shooters, some based on equipment but others on a shooter’s skill level.  In cowboy we have “categories”; the shooter selects his or her category for the match.  As long as the shooter meets the requirements of the category, he or she is eligible.  You don’t have to “qualify” by scoring.

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On 10/12/2019 at 1:18 PM, Arizona Gunfighter said:

I have a New Ruger Vaquero in .357/.38 with a 4.62 barrel, I like it's size and it shoots very well. I have not tuned it to run fast yet as I am still new to the game. Since your rifles are .357/.38 you probably would be better of shooting your pistols in the same caliber, otherwise you will be buying or reloading 2 different calibers of cartridges if you shoot .45 Colt pistols. Of course you will make the final decision as to what you like the best. Anyway, welcome to the game.

Pairing ammo with both pistols and rifle is predominant, but using a different cartridge for the rifle is not rare from what I see in my area. I have personal experience with that split and only mind when it comes to convenience and coordination of supplies when reloading.

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On 10/13/2019 at 9:24 AM, Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971 said:

 

 

On 10/13/2019 at 8:33 AM, Ripsaw said:

 

I struggled with the category requirements at first, so I feel your pain.  Age-based categories are different than Cowboy/Cowgirl.  As you see in the matrix, cowboy/cowgirl can be any age.  

 

You're right about the handbook being confusing! 

 

I'm partial to drop loop holster/belt rigs, but I get the impression that they're only permitted in the Gunfighter or B-Western categories, and that drop loop with embellishments/tooling etc... are prohibited in the Cowboy/Cowgirl and Age-Based categories.  But, if they are still permitted in the Age-Based or Cowboy/Cowgirl categories, then I would probably rather have a drop loop style rig.  Then, if I eventually moved up to Gunfighter or B-Western, I wouldn't have to invest in a whole new rig to compete in those categories.

Edited by Quizcat
Mistake with double quote

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28 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

 

 

You're right about the handbook being confusing! 

 

I'm partial to drop loop holster/belt rigs, but I get the impression that they're only permitted in the Gunfighter or B-Western categories, and that drop loop with embellishments/tooling etc... are prohibited in the Cowboy/Cowgirl and Age-Based categories.  But, if they are still permitted in the Age-Based or Cowboy/Cowgirl categories, then I would probably rather have a drop loop style rig.  Then, if I eventually moved up to Gunfighter or B-Western, I wouldn't have to invest in a whole new rig to compete in those categories.

You really need to get to a match and talk to folks pard.  Drop loop fancy holsters are legal for most categories.  Classic Cowboy is the only one that comes to mind where the butt has to be above the gunbelt.  

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Somewhere above you mentioned that leather rigs have to be tooled.  Unless SASS has changed things, that is NOT true.  Personally, I have been shooting military style rigs for years now.  Although I sewed cartridge loops on my belt, I wear a M1874 Dyer Pouch on the prairie belt, and drop my shotshells and if necessary, enough cartridges if a stage happens to require a reload.  At the loading bench, I simply take the ammo boxes and load from them, leaving them until after the stage.

 

I happen to shoot "Duelist" style, and shoot loads that are somewhat stiffer than you will want to.  Why? Because I allow the recoil to roll the gun in my hand, allowing me to hook the standard hammer spur and come down onto the next target.  I AM NOT FAST, however.  I only compete with myself.  Two-handed shooting is much more common, and I have seen some of the top shooters who shoot two-handed who can out-cycle a M1911 semi-auto!  They grip with both hands, but thumb the hammer with the "off" hand.

 

Regarding the remark about soft holsters causing problems, I agree 10000%!  A properly fitted holster should be wet-fit to the gun and stiff enough to hold its shape for years!  You will probably have to do the fitting yourself, no matter how high the quality of the leather maker.  You will want to do the final fitting to your liking.  This isn't difficult.  I include detailed instructions on how to do this with holsters I send to my customers.  I am sure others can detail how to do it right here on the Wire..

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redd dog leather

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5 hours ago, Quizcat said:

 

 

You're right about the handbook being confusing! 

 

I'm partial to drop loop holster/belt rigs, but I get the impression that they're only permitted in the Gunfighter or B-Western categories, and that drop loop with embellishments/tooling etc... are prohibited in the Cowboy/Cowgirl and Age-Based categories.  But, if they are still permitted in the Age-Based or Cowboy/Cowgirl categories, then I would probably rather have a drop loop style rig.  Then, if I eventually moved up to Gunfighter or B-Western, I wouldn't have to invest in a whole new rig to compete in those categories.

Man, reminds me of my first time through the handbook.  That's why I made that matrix, hopeful that it would help sort things out for newbies.

 

You can use a drop loop or Buscadero rig in every category except classic cowboy.  Go back to the matrix, pick a category from the left hand column, and read across to find the requirements. If you look at the holster requirements--B western requires a drop rig, Classic Cowboy prohibits that type of rig and every other category indicates "any," meaning any kind of holster rig is fine, drop loop or belt level or anything in between. 

 

Again, find a local club and go visit them during a match. A lot of your questions will be answered. 

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One thing to keep in mind with a slotted belt/holster rig vs one where the holsters have a loop over the belt.  If you gain or loose weight your holster position will change.

 

 

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58 minutes ago, Ripsaw said:

Man, reminds me of my first time through the handbook.  That's why I made that matrix, hopeful that it would help sort things out for newbies.

 

You can use a drop loop or Buscadero rig in every category except classic cowboy.  Go back to the matrix, pick a category from the left hand column, and read across to find the requirements. If you look at the holster requirements--B western requires a drop rig, Classic Cowboy prohibits that type of rig and every other category indicates "any," meaning any kind of holster rig is fine, drop loop or belt level or anything in between. 

 

Again, find a local club and go visit them during a match. A lot of your questions will be answered. 

Yes, that matrix has been very helpful, and it's starting to sink in...The matrix makes reference to "any main match" under the weapon category, for example.  What is defined as "Any Main Match?"  To a newbie, that phrase is kind of vague. 

 

So, it sounds like I can get a Buscadero style rig, and still be legal with respect to most categories, maybe all if the rig is embellished enough.

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58 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

One thing to keep in mind with a slotted belt/holster rig vs one where the holsters have a loop over the belt.  If you gain or loose weight your holster position will change.

 

 

Good point, and my weight does fluctuate at times.  You're saying the Buscadero style (Double Drop Loop) is more likely to change position with weight gains and losses?

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3 minutes ago, Quizcat said:

 

So, it sounds like I can get a Buscadero style rig, and still be legal with respect to most categories, maybe all if the rig is embellished enough.

Except Classic Cowboy.  No buscadero holsters.

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Has anybody tried a rig from Historical Emporium...Sure, it's economy leather, machine tooled, made in Mexico, etc..., but has anybody owned one? How does it hold up, and what's the downside, if any.  I have a lot of experience in the country of Mexico in business, and some of their leather work is world class, especially from around Leon, Mexico.  Of course, there is cheap stuff there too, but they also have good quality, and excellent workmanship.  Just not sure what Historical Emporium's ranking is.

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4 minutes ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

Except Classic Cowboy.  No buscadero holsters.

Thanks for the clarification...

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1 hour ago, Quizcat said:

Yes, that matrix has been very helpful, and it's starting to sink in...The matrix makes reference to "any main match" under the weapon category, for example.  What is defined as "Any Main Match?"  To a newbie, that phrase is kind of vague. 

 

So, it sounds like I can get a Buscadero style rig, and still be legal with respect to most categories, maybe all if the rig is embellished enough.

 

A Buscadero rig is legal in ALL categories except Classic Cowboy. B-Western adds the additional requirement that it be embellished with tooling and/or conchos. 

 

Any Main Match refers to the approved list of firearms that are CAS legal. The handbook defines Main Match firearms in some detail.  See section 6. 

 

The term main match is used to distinguish firearms legal for regular matches vs. those that may be used in "side" matches. Side matches are offered at some larger competitions and offer a wider variety of firearm options in specialized competitions separate from and scored completely differently than the "main" match. Most clubs only have side matches at their annual two-day matches, if then.   If there were no such thing as side matches, then the term "main match" would just be "CAS legal." 

 

Edited by Ripsaw

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2 hours ago, Ripsaw said:

 

A Buscadero rig is legal in ALL categories except Classic Cowboy. B-Western adds the additional requirement that it be embellished with tooling and/or conchos. 

 

Any Main Match refers to the approved list of firearms that are CAS legal. The handbook defines Main Match firearms in some detail.  See section 6. 

 

The term main match is used to distinguish firearms legal for regular matches vs. those that may be used in "side" matches. Side matches are offered at some larger competitions and offer a wider variety of firearm options in specialized competitions separate from and scored completely differently than the "main" match. Most clubs only have side matches at their annual two-day matches, if then.   If there were no such thing as side matches, then the term "main match" would just be "CAS legal." 

 

ok, thanks!

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Reddog Leather on Facebook. Very good product and very good price

Edited by Mister Badly

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