Curly Ken, SASS 60011 Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Having gloriously retired recently, I now have time to load BP substitutes, it’s great fun. I have been loading APP fffg in my pistols and rifle (15gr with 200gr rnfp in 44-40) and Black MZ in my shotgun. I’ve struggled getting APP and have came into possession of a good deal of Black MZ and would like to load this for pistols and rifle. I’ve chatted with Alliant and they had no information on 44-40 loads. Where can I find loading data on Black MZ for 44-40 cartridge? Thanks, appreciate your time and thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 Load to where the base of the bullet will be. A little compression is OK, but not necessary or generally beneficial. Use bullets with no lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted October 7, 2019 Share Posted October 7, 2019 I use 1cc charge on everything from 32WCF, 38 Special, 38WCF, 44WCF and C45S. No lube. On 38WCF and 44WCF I use a plug of Uhaul packing peanut to take up space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 Load Black-MZ the same as you would APP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major BS Walker Regulator Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 27 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said: Load Black-MZ the same as you would APP. This Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamond Curly SASS#57086 Posted October 8, 2019 Share Posted October 8, 2019 I have used black mz and used the same load as the app as mentioned above. I did try it in my C&B revolvers with not good results. The loads for cartridges worked fine as well as the shot gun shell. I tried it in my brass shot gun shells but went back to real black to get the boom back. If you are used to APP then you will have no issues with Black MZ. Itdoes clump like the old APP but easy to break up. Enjoy. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curly Ken, SASS 60011 Posted October 17, 2019 Author Share Posted October 17, 2019 Thanks for the great information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tequila Shooter Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 @Curly Ken, SASS 60011 I had the same issue with getting APP and also had to use Black MZ on occasion. They are both essentially the same for measurement. I'm loading .45 Colt and although with real BP you need to load so there is no air space and a little compression of the powder you don't have to do that with APP/Black MZ. I tried a few loads one loaded with compression, one loaded with less powder and some filler and one with just less powder. Took all 3 loads to the range and myself and another CAS shooter tried them and found that the one without the filler shot just fine, so now that's how I load them. I'm not sure if you want to hear how I came up with the amount of powder I use, if so just ask and I'll be happy to share. The .44-40 means .44 caliber bullet with 40 grains (by volume) of BP. Here is a good read by Curt Rich on loading BP subs for dummies he explains a lot. I'm sure there are other vendors that carry it but If you want APP give Scarlet Darlin (Bullets by Scarlet) a call or email, she doesn't list it on her website but does sell and ship it. Have fun, welcome to SASS, and enjoy the dark side. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Ozzy Posted October 18, 2019 Share Posted October 18, 2019 Black MZ and APP load and perform the same. Lots of smoke but no deep boom and flame like BP. A good starting point on the way to black powder. I shoot 45 colt and have migrated to Reenactor grade for the 10 (Winchester 1887 lever and Remington 1883) and 12 gauge shotgun (Boito Kmart special), and 2F for the 45 cases both regular and cowboy special under a 200 gr bullet (Miroku 73 and Rossi 92, Ruger OMV Bisleys). No filler, all smooth shooting nice boom, smoke, and flame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Major BS Walker Regulator Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 On 10/18/2019 at 10:34 AM, Trooper Ozzy said: No filler, all smooth shooting nice boom, smoke, and flame. Big "BOOM" and lots of smoke helps hide the fact that you just shoot slow but I didn't fall for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trooper Ozzy Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 If I go too fast I can’t admire the fireworks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sedalia Dave Posted October 19, 2019 Share Posted October 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Trooper Ozzy said: If I go too fast I can’t admire the fireworks. Exactly Wise man say "Shoot slower the fun lasts longer" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted October 20, 2019 Share Posted October 20, 2019 Hey Tequila .... Hate to disagree (no I don't) but the manufacturer of both APP and Black MZ state one should NOT leave any air space twixt propellant and the bullet. I shoot both and when I shoot a reduced load (always) I top off with Cream-0-Wheat to eliminate the Air Space. Additionally, if you happen to leave air space in a Percussion Cylinder, you get real wonky ignition. Filler with light loads in Percussion Cylinders is a necessity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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