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Snakebite

Long Range event

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I have some questions about the Single Shot Long Range events at you Club's annual match.

 

1. Is it held on the same day as the other side events?

2. Do you charge to shoot it?

3. Approx what is the average time it takes for each shooter to complete the course of fire? 

4. Do you use time as a tie breaker?

5. Do you allow shooters to shoot the course of fire again for a better score?

 

Thanks, Snakebite

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1. At Winter Range & Bordertown (AZ State Championship) it is shot on the same day as the other side matches.

2. Winter Range & Bordertown charge $15.00 for the long range events.

3. It can take up to 5-7 minutes per shooter to complete the course of fire, (time to get set-up, shoot and get the next shooter to the line)

4. First is the # of hits, 2nd is total time to shoot it, very rare to have a tie.

5. One time through for score, if time and space permits, may shoot again for fun.

 

TB

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Same day as side matches

Some clubs charge some don't. We charge $5/gun We shoot a match that allows you to shoot around 5 different rifles.

Depends on the course of fire and target distances. Most SASS long range side matches are speed rifle under 100 yards.

Most matches are time against most hits wins.

Tie breakers usually require a shoot off. or the most consecutive hits in a string. As in 10 rounds I shoot 5 hits a miss and then 4, You shoot 3, a miss then 6, you win.

Don't know about that one. We don't. Too many shooters to allow it.

IKe

 

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When either myself or others have run our long range, it's number of hits with ties broken by time.  Others use shoot-offs.

 

Usually the same day as other side events.  Sometimes shooters have to pick & choose between side matches cause time management becomes problematic.  

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Mostly They are run of a Side Match Day ...

The couple of clubs that run 500 yard +++ range events use Hits and only use Time to break ties ....

For Single Shot Longrange you have 5 miniutes to get her done , usually 4 different distances with three on each , ( or other Club ) Or three distances with 3 shots on each of the two close targets and 4 on the far one ... One club starts at about the 465+, next 585+, next 750+last from 890 to 1,060 Yards,, this is for rifle caliber and buffalo guns .... For pistol Caliber Single shot the distances usually start at 220+, next 295+, 360+ 465+...

 

Lever guns get 4 Miniutes , may start with tube fully loaded and load as needed for 12 shots ,,,, 3 at each distance ...

Long range lever Rifle Caliber ,,, start at 295+, 360+, 420+ and 495+

Long range Pistol Caliber ,,, Start at 50+, 75+, 125+ 220+

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

 

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Snakebite,

      I sent you a couple of private emails!!

                           Jasper

 

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I don't like to use time to break ties.  Using times just makes the match into a speed match.  SSAS long range rules state that the emphasis is on precision.  Speed and precision have very little to do with each other.  As for breaking ties, I set out very small tie breaker targets that are shot after the main course of fire is shot.  A shooter keeps shooting at the tie breaker target until a miss is recorded.  

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14 minutes ago, Clyde Henry 7046 said:

I don't like to use time to break ties.  Using times just makes the match into a speed match.  SSAS long range rules state that the emphasis is on precision.  Speed and precision have very little to do with each other.  As for breaking ties, I set out very small tie breaker targets that are shot after the main course of fire is shot.  A shooter keeps shooting at the tie breaker target until a miss is recorded.  

Can you clarify? 

Does each shooter shoot the course of fire, then continue on shooting the other  "tie breaker" targets until he/she misses, then compare and rank the outcomes at the end?  Or does the tie-breaker session physically follow everyone's regular course of fire completion? 

 

Has anybody found a way to do a shoot-off tie breaker, which doesn't tie all the shooters down (missing other side matches) until the ties are settled?  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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Dusty:. The shooter goes immediately to the tie breaker target.  The goal here to not have to call shooters back to the long range for shoot offs and not use time.  Tie breaker shots\hits are only counted to break ties.  The are not counted on the main course of fire.  The small targets reinforce the emphasis on precision.

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1 hour ago, Clyde Henry 7046 said:

Dusty:. The shooter goes immediately to the tie breaker target.  The goal here to not have to call shooters back to the long range for shoot offs and not use time.  Tie breaker shots\hits are only counted to break ties.  The are not counted on the main course of fire.  The small targets reinforce the emphasis on precision.

VERY HELPFUL!  

Thank you.  

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I appreciate all who have given me feedback on this thread. I remember the Long Range side matches at EOT in the early 90s. They were really not very long at all. They were actually less than a 100 yds. They were shot at paper targets and you were given a finite amount of time to get your shots completed.  Usually 2-3 min. When the time was up, all guns were checked and shown clear, you went down range and collected your target. The best group was the winner. Only the three best groups were kept. The entire process took only a few minutes and then you moved on to the next side match. It seems that some of the Long Range matches today are a far cry from those humble beginnings, and have become an event unto themselves.

 

Snakebite

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24 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

I appreciate all who have given me feedback on this thread. I remember the Long Range side matches at EOT in the early 90s. They were really not very long at all. They were actually less than a 100 yds. They were shot at paper targets and you were given a finite amount of time to get your shots completed.  Usually 2-3 min. When the time was up, all guns were checked and shown clear, you went down range and collected your target. The best group was the winner. Only the three best groups were kept. The entire process took only a few minutes and then you moved on to the next side match. It seems that some of the Long Range matches today are a far cry from those humble beginnings, and have become an event unto themselves.

 

Snakebite

That’s pretty much how we do it at The Gunfight Behind The Jersey Lilly. Best 9 shot group wins. Smokestacks youngest son M T Jar posts and pulls the targets so you don’t even have to walk the 100 yards. There is no time limit. Some folks are fast, a few are very meticulous and take a little longer.

Edited by Yul Lose
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Snakebite...

 

At PRVC's Lazy Arrow Annual ShootOut (Memorial Day weekend) we do include Long Range:

1) Same day as other side matches

2) First shoot included in match fee, each additional shoot is $2.00.

3) We shoot by distance and gun category, not by age: 100y and 300y in lever smokeless, lever BP, single shot smokeless, single shot BP, and Quigley (320y) - i.e. nine categories.

4) Distances are 100y, 300y, and 320Y(Quigley)

5) Shooter has maximum of two sighters (3 shots only on Quigley, no sighters)

6) Each shooter shoots 10 rounds; takes from about 30 seconds to about 100 seconds (I don't have last year's data in hand).

7) Scores are based on most hits in shortest time (I don't recall that we've ever had a tie-score problem).

8) Of 83 shooters at last year's match, my guess is that 20-25 participated in LR.

9) We've had requests for a bolt-action category, and to open our 500 and 750 yard targets, both of which we have no plans of doing in the foreseeable future.

10) We present a certificate only for side matches (including LR) - no medal pendant - and for First Place only.

Best,

RR

 

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13 hours ago, Roger Rapid said:

Snakebite...

 

At PRVC's Lazy Arrow Annual ShootOut (Memorial Day weekend) we do include Long Range:

1) Same day as other side matches

2) First shoot included in match fee, each additional shoot is $2.00.

3) We shoot by distance and gun category, not by age: 100y and 300y in lever smokeless, lever BP, single shot smokeless, single shot BP, and Quigley (320y) - i.e. nine categories.

4) Distances are 100y, 300y, and 320Y(Quigley)

5) Shooter has maximum of two sighters (3 shots only on Quigley, no sighters)

6) Each shooter shoots 10 rounds; takes from about 30 seconds to about 100 seconds (I don't have last year's data in hand).

7) Scores are based on most hits in shortest time (I don't recall that we've ever had a tie-score problem).

8) Of 83 shooters at last year's match, my guess is that 20-25 participated in LR.

9) We've had requests for a bolt-action category, and to open our 500 and 750 yard targets, both of which we have no plans of doing in the foreseeable future.

10) We present a certificate only for side matches (including LR) - no medal pendant - and for First Place only.

Best,

RR

 

Rodger Rapid :

I truly hope that this is spelled out Clearly in your entry form,,, as this is NOT long range !!!

And this would be a deciding factor in attending your match as a whole ,,, Under current conditions I will Not be attending your match No matter how good the Main Match is ....

So please make it clear that this is How you do your so called long range .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

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Jabez Cowboy...

Thanks for the input. I'm curious what you see here as different from other Long Range events you've attended?

RR

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44 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

Rodger Rapid :

I truly hope that this is spelled out Clearly in your entry form,,, as this is NOT long range !!!

And this would be a deciding factor in attending your match as a whole ,,, Under current conditions I will Not be attending your match No matter how good the Main Match is ....

So please make it clear that this is How you do your so called long range .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

I'm sorry - - for you.  You'll be missing out on a really well managed event with some of the nicest people you are ever likely to meet.   Roger's Club puts on a great match in an unbelievable old west ranch setting (30,000+ acre ranch, with bison, deer, wild pigs, eagles, and an occasional Condor overhead.) Great food too. 

Their long range facility is very well and comfortably designed and their target array runs up a natural arroyo, which really sets you back in time.   Wonderful overall experience.  Too bad you'll be missing out.  But you'd be welcome there if you change your mind. 

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale
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I once drove over 1,558 miles one Way to a shoot, and was So disappointed in how they did Quote "Long Range" that I didn't even uncase my Long Range Single shot Rifle ...

The rest of the Match was pretty good, but to this day 3+ years latter I still remember my disappointment in how they did Long Range ....

But they did read the Comments they got ,,,, and Now run a much better Long Range event by all accounts ...

 

I was so disappointed that I had already decided that I would never be returning to this shoot .... Long before I heard of their new way of doing Long Range ...

 

But at least they listened to the Cowboys that filled out the Comment Forms ( I clearly wasn't the only one ) and decided that they needed to do it better ....

 

So before I make plans to go to a shoot, I check-out just how they run their Long Range event and If the club running the better Long Range is on the same week as one 200 miles closer .... I will drive the extra distance ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

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14 minutes ago, Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 said:

I once drove over 1,558 miles one Way to a shoot, and was So disappointed in how they did Quote "Long Range" that I didn't even uncase my Long Range Single shot Rifle ...

The rest of the Match was pretty good, but to this day 3+ years latter I still remember my disappointment in how they did Long Range ....

But they did read the Comments they got ,,,, and Now run a much better Long Range event by all accounts ...

 

I was so disappointed that I had already decided that I would never be returning to this shoot .... Long before I heard of their new way of doing Long Range ...

 

But at least they listened to the Cowboys that filled out the Comment Forms ( I clearly wasn't the only one ) and decided that they needed to do it better ....

 

So before I make plans to go to a shoot, I check-out just how they run their Long Range event and If the club running the better Long Range is on the same week as one 200 miles closer .... I will drive the extra distance ....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

OK, Fair Enough.   Nobody wants to drive 1500, one way, miles to be disappointed.  

But now, if I may, I would like to put it back onto you.  Can you share the comments that you gave to them  (in addition to your prior response, regarding accurately describing the match in the application materials)?

What, in your opinion/vision, constitutes an excellent grade Cowboy (SASS) Long Range match?  Can you be as specific as possible? 

Thanks v. much in advance. 

DDD

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The conundrum is, a lot of folks shoot BPCR and like their long range LONG RANGE. BPCR is a whole nother life style.

Side match Long Range needs to fit into the overall match schedule.

Setting a line of shooters and have them shoot in order, when ever that shooter is ready to shoot, cuts down on the overall time but still runs long.

Side match Long Range is a tough can of worms to wrangle.

 

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13 minutes ago, Flying W Ramrod said:

The conundrum is, a lot of folks shoot BPCR and like their long range LONG RANGE. BPCR is a whole nother life style.

Side match Long Range needs to fit into the overall match schedule.

Setting a line of shooters and have them shoot in order, when ever that shooter is ready to shoot, cuts down on the overall time but still runs long.

Side match Long Range is a tough can of worms to wrangle.

 

You are SO correct.  CAS  Long Range side matches will never be able to compare to full and single emphasis, BPCR matches, for those with Long Range shooting as their primary interest.  Side matches are just that--side matches.  They need to be designed to handshake with the scheduling, spatial layout, and general themes of the parent CAS main match.   That is not an easy thing to accomplish, particularly for spatially confined and shorter duration CAS events.   Usually, the Main Match and overall event scheduling cannot be compromised very much to accommodate the side match events.  

Edited by Dusty Devil Dale

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Jabez:

Interesting view of things, and of course you have every right to use any criteria you choose to select which matches you attend. At one point in time I was passionate about Long Range shooting so I do understand your desire.  But here are a couple of things to consider. First off we are a COWBOY ACTION SHOOTING organization and the majority of SASS clubs are putting on a CAS match, not a Long Range shooting match.  Very few clubs have the facilities, manpower, equipment, time, or desire to present a true Long Range event in conjunction with their CAS match. To most clubs it is just another side event.   Most certainly there are a few clubs that have enough interest, and everything else needed to put on a more traditional style Long Range type match.  But as far as I can see the number of folks shooting the Long Range events have dropped significantly.  It appears to me that one of  the reasons participation has dropped has been the length of time required to complete the event, at least at our home range. Most folks just want to shoot and move on to the next side event. As a MD, I am charged with putting on the match, and in doing so I must regard the wishes of the majority of our club membership. To that end our Long Range event will be streamlined.    

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When you’re limited to a 100 yard range it’s kind of hard to stretch it any further. Maybe shooting an aspirin held in a clothes pin would be more inviting. I don’t know of any CAS clubs down here that could hold a long range side match over 150 yards. Sometimes you have to make due with what you have.

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Some of you gents would really enjoy the Long Range events at Chisholm Trail, the Australian Regional Match...which coincidentally starts on Monday.   Monday? I hear you say... yep... because it starts with nearly 2 full days of various long range events...  and some of those are LONG Range...…(One year out to 1300 yards IIRC?) Those guys (and gals) are KEEN!    I'll try to attach the schedule for your amusement.       

Chisholm Schedule 2019.pdf

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