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Hells Comin

Sass default

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16 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

Why not just change sass default to not touching your guns. Problem solved and This way no one has a advantage or disadvantage.

Why was this silly rule ever adopted -keep it simple stupid. 

Late night rant:ph34r:

 

 

4 hours ago, Lone Spur Jake SASS #7728 said:

Some great responses to this topic.  I have seen SASS default "abused" just as many times as "port arms" is abused.  Wish stage writers would not use either of these starting positions because they are a pain in the butt for Timer Operators.  A lot of time is wasted waiting for the TO and shooter to "agree" if the shooter is in the proper starting position when either of these starting positions is used. 

While both responses have a lot of merit,instead of recommending courses of action why not get involved with writing and designing stages to better affect change for the benefit of everyone in the sport?

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4 hours ago, Marauder SASS #13056 said:

I always like to have the starting position match the stage definition.

If you are expecting a fight, stand accordingly.

If you are jawing with yer pards, stand accordingly.

If you are reading a paper, getting a shave, cooking your grub, sweet-talking your gal, position accordingly.

 

So you write the start position to match.

 

I remember back to a time when many more stages included having your hands on something rather than without. Holding your injured buddy (a dummy). Holding a bow and arrow. Holding a knife. Holding a rope. Holding a baby. Hangin the laundry. Holding a plate of beans.

 

what you were holding or messing with your hands with had something to do with the storyline they just read.

 

it was just another way that the stage writer had to put you in any position where they wanted you to be.

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Yesterday, we held a bag of gold in BOTH hands,  hands on hat, touching long gun on table, holding long gun,

hands on your belly, and I don't remember the other starting position.

 

Seems like all of them had something to do with the story line and were perfect for each

state design.

 

..........Widder

 

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3 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

I don't remember the other starting position

Sass default.  Lol

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2 hours ago, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

 

it was just another way that the stage writer had to put you in any position where they wanted you to be.

I learned a long time ago; if you simply tell the shooter to do X and Z. 

They will argue Y with you.

But if you have a reason for it and it flows with the stage design - they will do it pretty unquestioningly.

 

If I want your hands above your shoulders?

I can say hands at low surrender - standing upright.  (And debate low surrender and upright)

Or...

I can be a little more clever and state;  shooter signals ready by pulling the mission bell rope - both hands remain on rope until beep.

 

If I want you to shoot your shotgun over by the marker?

I can say move to marker with shotgun and engage sg targets any order.  (And then debate "how close to marker?" And "Can I begin shooting here as long as the last shot is by the marker?")

Or...

I can be a little more clever and simply make you stage your shotgun where I want you to shoot from.

 

If I want you to move and shoot your pistols from a certain position?

I can say engage pistol targets from left of cone.  (And again argue what left means; one foot, two feet, pistol only?)

Or...

I can be a little more clever and put up a sight blocker that doesn't allow you to see the pistol targets until you are where I want you.  Or at the very least; put up an eight foot tall marker and state rounds must pass the specific side of the marker.

 

 

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I like the idea that SASS Default is any position as long as you are not touching your firearms.  I sure can live with standing upright with hands to the sides.  I agree with Creeker that it creates a lot of interpretation and has created more problems than it is worth.  

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I see people start in, what I think, are all kinds of crazy positions. But it's what I think, not what they think.

Hey stage writers, if you want folks starting a certain way (or NOT starting a certain way), then write it in.

Do I think you look like a goober all crouched down and ready for the 100 meters? Probably, but that's me. You do you.

As stage writers, we have the ability to start folks any way we choose... write it. OR... ya get what ya get.

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I posted the real reason why we have a default starting position and it got deleted.  Someone must have found the truth offensive. :)

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4 minutes ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

I posted the real reason why we have a default starting position and it got deleted.  Someone must have found the truth offensive. :)

They more likely found your childish language offensive.

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Well ... if you write "hands touching hat" ... don't be surprised if you failed to to specify "hat on head" too! s10.gif.7dddf09f6c985a2679327303b4779dbb.gif 

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55 minutes ago, Patagonia Pete said:

Well ... if you write "hands touching hat" ... don't be surprised if you failed to to specify "hat on head" too! s10.gif.7dddf09f6c985a2679327303b4779dbb.gif 

Then the goof doing it gets a Gibbs and laughed at.

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2 hours ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

They more likely found your childish language offensive.

In the event that was the case, let's do this.  We all know what BS stands for.  The term is used regularly on here with no issues.  Let's modify it to HS, which is kinda the same thing, only the animal involved is not a bull, but a horse.  So my comment is:

The default starting position, like all of the other anti-HS rules, was adopted to stop shooters from doing things that look HS.  The Wild Bunch don't want their game to look HS.

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On 9/22/2019 at 2:15 AM, Griff said:

Creeker, maybe so.  But, would a cowboy defendin' the homestead start off by imitatin' a hurdler in "blocks"?

 

Yep, opinion it may be... both ways.  Both are valid however.  I think!  ;)

Of course not!  But, if you're defending your homestead against armed intruders are you going to start "hands not touching guns or ammo"?  Will you start with an empty shotgun?  I know my shotgun would be stoked and my gun would be in my hands, so basing how we start on what a 'real cowboy' would do is not going to lead us to our current SASS default position, far from it.

''

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9 minutes ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

In the event that was the case, let's do this.  We all know what BS stands for.  The term is used regularly on here with no issues.  Let's modify it to HS, which is kinda the same thing, only the animal involved is not a bull, but a horse.  So my comment is:

The default starting position, like all of the other anti-HS rules, was adopted to stop shooters from doing things that look HS.  The Wild Bunch don't want their game to look HS.

HS is in the eye of the beholder.

 

8 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

I see people start in, what I think, are all kinds of crazy positions. But it's what I think, not what they think.

Hey stage writers, if you want folks starting a certain way (or NOT starting a certain way), then write it in.

Do I think you look like a goober all crouched down and ready for the 100 meters? Probably, but that's me. You do you.

As stage writers, we have the ability to start folks any way we choose... write it. OR... ya get what ya get.

I think I know the goober you're referencing and it does work well for him/her.

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10 minutes ago, Nasty Newt # 7365 said:

In the event that was the case, let's do this.  We all know what BS stands for.  The term is used regularly on here with no issues.  Let's modify it to HS, which is kinda the same thing, only the animal involved is not a bull, but a horse.  So my comment is:

The default starting position, like all of the other anti-HS rules, was adopted to stop shooters from doing things that look HS.  The Wild Bunch don't want their game to look HS.

Of all the things visible in a game filled with geriatrics and wheezing fat geezers.

 

You think that a shooter starting with their fingertips touching their gun is the off putting visual?

 

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31 minutes ago, Creeker, SASS #43022 said:

Of all the things visible in a game filled with geriatrics and wheezing fat geezers.

 

You think that a shooter starting with their fingertips touching their gun is the off putting visual?

 

I never said that.

 

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Hands on hat is a difficult one for me! With my bad shoulder I need to lift my right hand up there with my left and hopefully be quick enough get my left hand to the hat before my right one pulls the hat off. Usually I can prop my elbow on something during the hand exchange.:D Do what ya gotta do to play the same as everyone else. My right arm falls to the guns pretty quick when I let go of the hat however! Stolen some lumber (splinters) on door jams as well.:)

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This is not that hard.  Recommendation is SASS Default=either standing upright hands to side or standing anyway you want not touching guns.  You can look anyway you want if the second option is chosen.  I would never worry about how one looks.  We are all working to better what we are doing.  My belief is that more would get involved with the wire if you get rid of the egos and just give your recommendation and why.  The information goes to the TG for recommendations.

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5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

I think I know the goober you're referencing and it does work well for him/her.

Ahh, they can do what ever they want, I just smirk.

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When the clarification came about, I explained it to the club I represent as follows. Despite instructions such as hands touching hat, low surrender...; you must still follow the rest of the default position instructions.

 

I put a twist on it by telling them that Emily Post doesn't like seeing shooters crouched like a caveman, regardless of the starting position. I tried to make the position explanation memorable. Another club's VP asked me to come to their match and explain it there. So, I guess he thought it would be memorable.

 

The problem was the crouchers.  The TO should tell the shooter to stand upright or there would be a penalty for not following the stage conventions. Simple as that. No one would do something they were warned they would be penalized for. :unsure: 

 

The preceding is not to say, I love the default. However, the scenario writer can easily get around it by writing something like "shooter may start in position of choice." Or, individuals who do not like the existing default should lobby (here) or with their TG to change the default to a position of their choice.

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If folks are going to argue it so hard...and want to start in a racing crouch or whatever then yes, good stage writing can provide useful remedies.   I just don't get WHY folks argue it.   In my OTHER shooting game...(where the Default position is used most of the time) even at the WORLD shoot in fact, no TO would start the timer until the shooter was standing upright and facing front!   (Couldn't even be looking where you were going first)  I didn't hear ANY bitching about it.  Is it THAT big a deal?

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Just because the stage instruction say to start with your hands _____________________, doesn't mean the rest of the body position can be any which way you want.

With the free form default (In any position you wish but hands not touching guns) it allows too much leeway to the shooter. Can their hands be on their shotgun shells if shotgun is first? Can their hands be wrapped around the top of their holster preparing to fast draw?

Let's meet in the middle and use some common sense.

 

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Standing any way you want hands not touching guns or ammo seem pretty self explanatory to me and it gives all the shooters the same options while eliminating stupid questions like ‘how upright’ or ‘can the shooter be looking down.’

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I think it's interesting to see how each shooter chooses to start stages when they have a choice... or how they "try" to when given other instructions. :D

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