Sharps Questions

[Doc Shapiro]

I wouldn't get a Sharps.  I'd get a hi-wall.  Lock time is much faster.  The lock time on a sharps is very slow.

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

37 minutes ago, Dutch Al #22045 said:

When I bought my first Sharps 1874, I had the choice of Shiloh, or C Sharps.  At that time, Shiloh was quoting a 4 year wait for their rifle.  Or I could go across the street and get a C Sharps in 6 months.  I  went to C Sharps, and met with John Schoffstall.  John helped me order an 1874 rifle, a 45-70.  John was very helpful, offering guidance, but not pushing me into some choice.  He is a great guy, and I really like him.  When the rifle arrived, it was really nice.  Well built, really good wood to metal fit.  Perhaps a year later, I met a shooter at our range, with two Shiloh Sharps.  I looked over his rifles, and they didn't look any better than my C. Sharps.  John Schoffstall's estimate of 6 months was incorrect.  He delivered the rifle to me in just over 5 months!  At the time C. Sharps built my rifles, they were using Badger barrels.  Badger had a reputation for producing fine, high quality match barrels, but unfortunately they went out of business.  The good news is, I have Badger barrels on both my rifles.  And they do shoot.  It don't get much better than that.

 

When I was looking to buy a 40 caliber rifle, I had read about the 40 Sharps Straight.  It was highly praised by some BPCR shooters.  When I talked to John Schoffstall, I asked for his recommendation on which 40 caliber cartridge.  John told me the 40-70 SS was indeed a great cartridge, but he told me it wasn't very forgiving of differences in loading tolerances.  John said the most forgiving 40 caliber cartridge was the 40-65.  I decided to go with his recommendation.  John was true to his word, the 40-65 is an easy cartridge to load for.  And it shoots every bit as good as the 45-70.  So what's not to like about that?  I can't speak for really long range, but the 40-65 works quite well up to 550 yards. 

 

When I read the above thread, about Shiloh charging $200 to bump someone up on the waiting list, I found that disgusting.  When a person orders a rifle, and is quoted a delivery time, it seems unethical (if true) they would let someone jump ahead of you for a fee.  About 17 or 18 years back, I corresponded with a gentleman on the SASS wire.  He related his experience with Shiloh to me.  He had paid a deposit, and received a delivery date of approximately two years.  He then said that every six months or so, Shiloh would notify him that the delivery date had been bumped out, and if he wanted to stay on the waiting list, he would have to pay more deposit.  I am repeating this as hearsay, but based on other stories I've heard about Shiloh, I have no reason to doubt his story.  he said it took him more than 4 years to get the rifle he ordered.  SHEEESH!  I just couldn't deal with junk like that. 

 

Needless to say, I went across the street to C. Sharps, and never once regretted my decision.  The folks at C Sharps are just great to deal with.  They've never said a thing to me that wasn't 100% true.  They were very helpful, working with me and advising me so I would get the features I needed on a rifle.  I've had a lot of enjoyment from shooting those rifles, and I credit their assistance with contributing to that.  

You are a bit off the track there , Dutch. It isn't Shiloh Sharps that charges the 200.00 for an earlier delivery , it is Bill Goodman , who has standing orders with Shiloh. It is one of his spots that one puts the deposit on.

Rex 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

3 hours ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 X2 on Bill Goodman. Great person to deal with......

OLG

I’ll go that route next time I by a Shiloh. I need to stop buying Colts first, though. 

[Kirk James]

1976-1983 Shiloh Products Inc( Farmingdale era).   1980 C Sharps is formed by John Schoffstall and moves to Big Timber.  I know that in the break up Schoffstall retained the "Old Reliable trademark".   Wolfgang retained the Shiloh name.  I am guessing time in court held up a great deal of time.  In the 90's I ordered a Shiloh and a C Sharps at the NRA show in Phoenix.  They did not like each other.  Both made promises; C Sharps company kept theirs.  Both rifles are of upmost accuracy and well made.  I sold my Shiloh and kept my C Sharps.  Both had a 5 year waiting list at the time and both arrived around the 5 year mark.  Even though I had a problem there are many who love their Shiloh and evidenced by the 1000 yard matches they make an incredible rifle.  The Farmingdale's are an incredible buy if you can find them.  Not to many who want to get rid of them. 

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Buy a Rifle in .40-65 ,,,, Run your .45-70 brass into your .40-65 resize die lift handle pull your newly formed .40-65 case out Champher the inside of the case neck ,Prime and drop-in powder and seat bullet ....

.45-70 brass is just Cheaper brass for the .40-65 with the wrong head stamp,,,,, Or you can buy .40-65 Star-Line Brass ....

 

As to rifles buy a Sharps that turns your Crank or fits your budget if you got to have a Sharps ..... OR,,,,, Buy a Highwall in .40-65 .... Faster Lock time and less movement than the huge and heavy side hammer slamming down ....

I have used my .40-65 out passed 1,300 yards to good effect ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy  

[Cholla]

The only style of single-shot rifle that fries my chicken is a 1874 Sharps. The rest just don't appeal to me. I'm sure it's a character flaw on my part. If a Springfield Trapdoor would to cross my path and I had the extra cash, I might be inclined to buy it, but not before I had my Sharps.

 

[Griff]

8 hours ago, Dutch Al #22045 said:

When I read the above thread, about Shiloh charging $200 to bump someone up on the waiting list, I found that disgusting.  When a person orders a rifle, and is quoted a delivery time, it seems unethical (if true) they would let someone jump ahead of you for a fee. 

A I understand it,   Shiloh Ballard is NOT Shiloh.  It's a guy that maintains orders for rifles with Shiloh and will adjust his order to meet your specs when you agree to buy one.   One can change one's order details up until the rifle is slated to go into production.  About 6 months into my 12 month (in 1986) waiting period I upgraded the wood and changed the sights I wanted.  No problems.

[Matthew McCrae]

9 hours ago, Dutch Al #22045 said:

When I bought my first Sharps 1874, I had the choice of Shiloh, or C Sharps.  At that time, Shiloh was quoting a 4 year wait for their rifle.  Or I could go across the street and get a C Sharps in 6 months.  I  went to C Sharps, and met with John Schoffstall.  John helped me order an 1874 rifle, a 45-70.  John was very helpful, offering guidance, but not pushing me into some choice.  He is a great guy, and I really like him.  When the rifle arrived, it was really nice.  Well built, really good wood to metal fit.  Perhaps a year later, I met a shooter at our range, with two Shiloh Sharps.  I looked over his rifles, and they didn't look any better than my C. Sharps.  John Schoffstall's estimate of 6 months was incorrect.  He delivered the rifle to me in just over 5 months!  At the time C. Sharps built my rifles, they were using Badger barrels.  Badger had a reputation for producing fine, high quality match barrels, but unfortunately they went out of business.  The good news is, I have Badger barrels on both my rifles.  And they do shoot.  It don't get much better than that.

 

When I was looking to buy a 40 caliber rifle, I had read about the 40 Sharps Straight.  It was highly praised by some BPCR shooters.  When I talked to John Schoffstall, I asked for his recommendation on which 40 caliber cartridge.  John told me the 40-70 SS was indeed a great cartridge, but he told me it wasn't very forgiving of differences in loading tolerances.  John said the most forgiving 40 caliber cartridge was the 40-65.  I decided to go with his recommendation.  John was true to his word, the 40-65 is an easy cartridge to load for.  And it shoots every bit as good as the 45-70.  So what's not to like about that?  I can't speak for really long range, but the 40-65 works quite well up to 550 yards. 

 

When I read the above thread, about Shiloh charging $200 to bump someone up on the waiting list, I found that disgusting.  When a person orders a rifle, and is quoted a delivery time, it seems unethical (if true) they would let someone jump ahead of you for a fee.  About 17 or 18 years back, I corresponded with a gentleman on the SASS wire.  He related his experience with Shiloh to me.  He had paid a deposit, and received a delivery date of approximately two years.  He then said that every six months or so, Shiloh would notify him that the delivery date had been bumped out, and if he wanted to stay on the waiting list, he would have to pay more deposit.  I am repeating this as hearsay, but based on other stories I've heard about Shiloh, I have no reason to doubt his story.  he said it took him more than 4 years to get the rifle he ordered.  SHEEESH!  I just couldn't deal with junk like that. 

 

Needless to say, I went across the street to C. Sharps, and never once regretted my decision.  The folks at C Sharps are just great to deal with.  They've never said a thing to me that wasn't 100% true.  They were very helpful, working with me and advising me so I would get the features I needed on a rifle.  I've had a lot of enjoyment from shooting those rifles, and I credit their assistance with contributing to that.  

It's not Shiloh that bumps you. It's a private individual that has deposits in place. You buy a ticket in line from him not Shiloh. No one is getting bumped ahead of anyone. You just buy a rifle that he has a deposit on. and due to Shiloh's policy you can make a change to the order right up until it goes into production. The deposit was in place for about 18 months in most cases. When you order your rifle from Bill Goodman you pay him a deposit, he places the order on the next rifle he has headed to production and you wait 4-10 months depending on Shiloh's production schedule. Everyone that placed and order 18 months prior is still in the same queue, no one jumped ahead of anyone. Bill Goodman just sold his place in line for a modest fee. 

Think about what you wrote too. In one paragraph you criticize Shiloh (incorrectly) for allowing people to be bumped then immediately complain about a person's wait of four years to get a rifle??  Let me tell you after Quigley came out in 1990 Shiloh had a four year wait all the way up to about 2005. They still claim 14-18 months but in reality it's more like two years. and that can change at any moment and more so now that the company is up for sale. 
 

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

9 hours ago, Doc Shapiro said:

I wouldn't get a Sharps.  I'd get a hi-wall.  Lock time is much faster.  The lock time on a sharps is very slow.

 

If one is looking for a new USA made version of the 1885:

 

http://csharpsarms.com/catalog-category/11/1885-Highwall-Rifles.html?page=0

 

GG ~ 

[Matthew McCrae]

9 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I’ll go that route next time I by a Shiloh. I need to stop buying Colts first, though. 

 

Thats a good problem to have

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Back in 2005 I bought a C Sharps in 50-140. Why?

 

Well, I didn't buy it to shoot any competition with it - just for fun.

 

It's only been shot about 10 times. I reckon I just like looking at too from time to time.

 

My inspiration is two-fold: First, I loved Quigley so that inspiration was there. Second? My grandpa owned a big ranch outside Tucson (X9 Ranch in Vail, AZ) and he was a big fella - 6'4". When he passed he left us grandkids a little money. So to honor him and have a keepsake to pass down - I bought the biggest caliber that C Sharps made. We all have our reasons to get a Sharps.  Here is the video of me shooting it 7 years after it was made . No target, just having fun. It was about a 12 weeks lead time from deposit to shipped rifle to me. 

 

 

 

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

If you want a clue about best Sharps rifles in match situations just take a gander at winner equipment list and make up your own mind.  Personally I think Shiloh has had the edge on fit and finish for many years and certainly their current barrels will shoot with anyone’s.  That said , I have a CSharps in 44-90 straight coming and expect it to be a fine rifle as well to compliment my Shilohs and original Sporting rollers  Incidentally, C Sharps now uses Green Mountain barrels and Shiloh never has gouged extra fees from anyone!       

If you’re determined to use a sub powder or heaven forbid smokeless

I highly suggest you stick to the 45-70 or 40-65.  Maybe even the 50-70...which is probably the most historical of all.

 

 

 

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

14 minutes ago, Yellowhouse Sam # 25171 said:

If you want a clue about best Sharps rifles in match situations just take a gander at winner equipment list and make up your own mind.  Personally I think Shiloh has had the edge on fit and finish for many years and certainly their current barrels will shoot with anyone’s.  That said , I have a CSharps in 44-90 straight coming and expect it to be a fine rifle as well to compliment my Shilohs and original Sporting rollers  Incidentally, C Sharps now uses Green Mountain barrels and Shiloh never has gouged extra fees from anyone!       

If you’re determined to use a sub powder or heaven forbid smokeless

I highly suggest you stick to the 45-70 or 40-65.  Maybe even the 50-70...which is probably the most historical of all.

 

 

 

 Yup - they use both Badger and Green Mountain barrels (mine is a Badger version)

 

http://csharpsarms.com/page.php?content_id=14

 

GG ~ 

[Texas Lizard]

13 hours ago, El Hombre Sin Nombre said:

I’ll go that route next time I by a Shiloh. I need to stop buying Colts first, though. 

If you have to many of them Colts...Just send them south to me...I will be happy to take care of them...

 

Texas Lizard

 

Owner of many Hi walls and soon a Shiloh Sharps... 

[El Hombre Sin Nombre]

Just now, Texas Lizard said:

If you have to many of them Colts...Just send them south to me...I will be happy to take care of them...

 

Texas Lizard

 

Owner of many Hi walls and so a Shiloh Sharps... 

I don’t believe there is such a thing as too many colts. 

[Yellowhouse Sam # 25171]

Check w Charps first.  They have been out of standard Badger barrels for quite some time as the company went out of business some years ago.  They do still have a few though in the Creedmoor configuration.

[Pee Wee #15785]

If you want to get into NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette you will find at the 1000 yard targets the wind will will move your lead much more in .45-70 than if you go with .45-90 or bigger.  If NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette is not in the cards the .45-70 will take any game and shoot most any SASS range.  I like the .38-55 for SASS if not shooting my Trapdoors.  I do own a C Sharps in .45-70 but the Trapdoor Rifle is what comes out for most things needing shot, targets or game.   Any of the single shot rifles used in SASS will turn your shoulder black and blue if you put 100 or so rounds down range practicing.  Now in NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette the guns from Pedersoli are making in-roads.

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

Lots of opinions, lots of good advice.  But it comes down to what you want to do and what your dream is.  45-70 is a good choice for a lot of things.  Components are easy to get, good load data exists, and they are always in demand so they have good resale value.  As noted above, there are some other good calibers, you just need to compare what they have to offer with what you want.  

 

Personally, I chose a business rifle in 45-90 and duplicated a specific original rifle I liked in 50-70 (both Shiloh).  I also have a Garret cap-lock carbine.  They are not mainstream, but I like them and that’s what counts.  

 

Now if I only had time to shoot them, but that’s a different problem.  

[Cholla]

The mystery has been cleared up. I call The Shiloh Sharps Company about the Shiloh Sharps with a C Sharp barrel. They said that Shiloh Sharps briefly had a partnership with C Sharps and was using their barrels. They are legitimate Shiloh Sharps.

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

On 9/13/2019 at 8:58 PM, Pee Wee #15785 said:

If you want to get into NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette you will find at the 1000 yard targets the wind will will move your lead much more in .45-70 than if you go with .45-90 or bigger.  If NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette is not in the cards the .45-70 will take any game and shoot most any SASS range.  I like the .38-55 for SASS if not shooting my Trapdoors.  I do own a C Sharps in .45-70 but the Trapdoor Rifle is what comes out for most things needing shot, targets or game.   Any of the single shot rifles used in SASS will turn your shoulder black and blue if you put 100 or so rounds down range practicing.  Now in NRA BP Cartridge Silhouette the guns from Pedersoli are making in-roads.

BPCR silhouette matches do not go out to 1000 yards , unless some drastic change has been made recently. The ram targets are at 500 meters.

The 1000 yard matches are on bullseye targets.

Respectfully , Rex