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Red Flag Laws


Dantankerous

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What could possibly go wrong?

 

The goal of red flag laws is probably twofold. One intention is to actually use thought crime to prevent something before it happens and the other popular idea is that red flag laws will be used to disarm citizens. Plenty of discussion for both of those realms of hyperbole.

 

Of course gun owners are upset about the unconstitutional process within the framework that these red flag laws are being developed and implemented. It absolutely undermines due process and removes constitutional rights from people, in this case gun owners.

 

But let's expand this conversation. How many non-gun owners understand that red flag laws can and will be used against them?  Gun owners certainly do have property they will lose under red flag law firearm confiscation. A non gun owner may not have firearms or property they will lose but they will certainly be subject to unconstitutional searches of their private property. How do you think that's going to go over?  5 sheriff's deputies show up at their front door after being charged with confiscating dangerous weapons from somebody's house (who does not own these so called items) but the legal collection crew nevertheless is there because of a bogus "I'm going to get you back" scheme initiated by somebody who has it out for the innocent party? If the law enforcement thinks there are weapons and are there to search and seize weapons do you think they're going to gently pull back the table cloth or a couch cushion and say "Oh, nothing here," and leave peacefully or is law enforcement going to trash the place looking for what they came to search and seize? How often will truly innocent people be detained and even arrested when law enforcement asks for their guns, guns they do not own, and they truthfully state they do not have any? How many innocent people will be arrested and charged with obstruction of justice or for lying to an officer when in fact, they are not?

 

 How often will these red flag laws be weaponized by people as a revenge tactic instead of something legitimate? How often will these red flag laws result in a total disruption of somebody's freedoms and potential futures?

 

 Non gun-owning touchy-feely-anti 2nd Amendment types better figure out that red flag laws will be dangerous to everyone, not just gun owners.  Constitutional freedoms exist for everyone for good reason.

 

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, sassnetguy50 said:

These laws could be the next evolution of “swatting” someone.

Not could, will.

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1 minute ago, Yul Lose said:

Not could, will.

 

Exactly my point.

 

In my city there recently was a very high profile case of swatting in which a totally innocent man was killed by police in the "raid".

 

This red flag law stuff will lead to many horrible outcomes, I fear.

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If the suspect says they are going to run someone down with their truck are they going to take vehicles or just the drivers license so they can't drive?

 

There's a reason the authorities don't take concealed carry permits from people. People that have gone through all the trouble of getting a permit don't do stupid stuff. 

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“Innocent until proven guilty” a practice stemming from English law and adopted as “Common Law” here in the USA.

 

These words are completely tossed out under “Red Flag Laws”

 

Here are some other words that Red Flag Laws appears to be in conflict:

 

Amendment 4 
- Protection from Unreasonable Searches and Seizures

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects against unreasonablesearches and seizures shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularlydescribing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized.

 

Amendment 6 
- Rights of Accused Persons in Criminal Cases

In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial by an impartialjury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor; and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.

 

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Anybody who is active on social media should be fully aware how cupcakes use the Red Flag concept to "report" you for hurting their feelings.

These are anonymous reports, and wind up you in Facebook jail or kicked out entirely.
Make no mistake:  the cupcakes will take every opportunity to Red Flag you to further their agenda.

You can see this in the news every day.
Today, the idiot mayor of London is Red Flagging Mr. Trump by accusing him of playing golf (in a hurricane) while Dorian ravages the East.
Mr. Trump cancelled his trip to Poland specifically to remain in the US while Dorian is active, yet this bozo red-flags him... because he can.

My wife and I are VERY concerned about anybody can report us for Red Flag scares, and the cops will take away our guns.
Social media is the main source of scrutiny, along with anonymous "I'm Scared" complaints.

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I truly feel that there are law firms and associations chomping at the bit to fight these Red Flag laws if they are enacted. They violate so many current laws and the constitution that they will be held up in courts for years. 

 

At at least that is my hope.

 

Support your Pro 2nd Amendment organizations so they can fight in our behalf. :FlagAm:

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Curious...

 

Don't law enforcement officers take an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution...etc?

 

If law enforcement officers arrive at your door without a duly sworn warrant to inspect your property for what is listed in the legal warrant, aren't they now in violation of their oath?

 

 

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I truly feel that there are law firms and associations chomping at the bit to fight these Red Flag laws if they are enacted. They violate so many current laws and the constitution that they will be held up in courts for years. 

 

At at least that is my hope.

 

Support your Pro 2nd Amendment organizations so they can fight in our behalf. :FlagAm:

But....years or decades will pass before the judicial decisions are made that these laws are unconstitutional. The victims of these red flag laws will be left twisting in the wind innocent but guilty none the less in societies twisted mind.

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7 minutes ago, Dantankerous said:

Curious...

 

Don't law enforcement officers take an oath to protect and defend the US Constitution...etc?

 

If law enforcement officers arrive at your door without a duly sworn warrant to inspect your property for what is listed in the legal warrant, aren't they now in violation of their oath?

 

 

 

 

 

They usually do what they are told by their superiors. If they don't like it tough poop. Whether they really put forth much effort is a different story. Their goal is to male it through the shift safely and get back home to their family. There's a reason for the high turnover rate in law enforcement. 

 

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18 minutes ago, Assassin said:

They usually do what they are told by their superiors. If they don't like it tough poop. Whether they really put forth much effort is a different story. Their goal is to male it through the shift safely and get back home to their family. There's a reason for the high turnover rate in law enforcement. 

 

 

Putting any job before the US Constitution, especially if sworn to uphold it is just...

 

...wrong and sad.

 

We all disagree with bosses, but this is very different territory here.

 

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