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If you were selling face to face


Alpo

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Would you require the buyer to have a carry permit?

 

There's a website called Georgia outdoors. I can't buy anything off of it because I'm not a Georgia resident, but I read it a couple three times a month just to see how much they're charging for their stuff.

 

And I have noticed, more and more often, that the seller requires the buyer to have a permit.

 

 

Kinda on the same way of thinking, if you sold a gun to Joe, and he took it and robbed the liquor store and killed the clerk, would you feel guilty because you sold him the gun?

 

How about if you sold a gun to a pawn shop, and they sold it to Joe, who robbed the liquor store and killed the clerk? Would you feel guilty about that? If you hadn't sold the gun to the pawn shop, Joe wouldn't have been able to shoot the clerk.

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I only sell guns through legit gun dealers.  I have never bought or sold a gun through a pawn shop but the pawn brokers I know aren’t the dipsticks you see on TV that sell guns to just anyone. They follow the laws in the states they operate in.

 

If I sold a gun to a properly licensed dealer and they sold to someone that committed a crime that is not my problem. If they sold it legally it shouldn’t be their problem either. 

It’s the knucklehead’s problem that committed the crime.

 

Is the DMV accountable for losers that cause accidents while using s cell phone while driving? No. :D

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In many states, pawnbrokers are required to run info on the guns they take in through local law enforcement and wait a set length of time before they can turn a gun around to sell. I bought a Mossberg from a LGS, and had to wait for it to clear before I could complete the purchase.

 

For FTF, requiring a carry permit is another level of protection -- a released felon might be able to get a driver's license, but is unlikely to get a carry permit.

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'Carry Permits' have nothing to do with having the right to owning a firearm.

 

MILLIONS of lawful gun owners never carry, nor even have a 'Carry Permit'.

 

Alpo:  if you continue the cycle of your examples, then the firearms Manufacturers would be responsible

for all gun crime and therefore, would be subject to shutdowns.

 

..........Widder

 

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I sold a gun at a gun show here in Ohio to a person I did not know. He showed me his CURRENT OHIO driver's license so everything was legal for Ohio. A  year or two later I get a call from the ATF, at first I thought it was a scam but turns out it was legit. The gun I sold, A Taurus 9mm, was used in a robbery in Kentucky by an illegal immigrant from Mexico! The ATF agent wanted to know who I sold the gun to. I told him I did not know but I followed Ohio law and he "suggested" I get at least a name next time. :o

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2 hours ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

In Ohio you only need to ask for a valid Ohio ID, driver's license etc.

I've never seen a law that said that you have to ask for a ID, that is a gun show CYA. If a buyer has a CCW that would prove they are legal to own a gun. I've seen lots of adds on armslist where the seller says that a ID and or bill of sale is required, but they don't ask for it when I get there. Must scare off people who can't or won't do it.

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20 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

I've never seen a law that said that you have to ask for a ID, that is a gun show CYA. If a buyer has a CCW that would prove they are legal to own a gun. I've seen lots of adds on armslist where the seller says that a ID and or bill of sale is required, but they don't ask for it when I get there. Must scare off people who can't or won't do it.

You cannot sell a firearm to anyone out of state unless you go through an FFL, that's why you ask for a valid Ohio ID. 

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12 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

I only sell guns through legit gun dealers.  I have never bought or sold a gun through a pawn shop but the pawn brokers I know aren’t the dipsticks you see on TV that sell guns to just anyone. They follow the laws in the states they operate in.

 

If I sold a gun to a properly licensed dealer and they sold to someone that committed a crime that is not my problem. If they sold it legally it shouldn’t be their problem either. 

It’s the knucklehead’s problem that committed the crime.

 

Is the DMV accountable for losers that cause accidents while using s cell phone while driving? No. :D

Pawn shops around here are almost FFL holders.

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42 minutes ago, Crooked River Pete, SASS 43485 said:

My point is, it's not a law you have to ask for Id.

Yea I get it, whatever..... but you'd better ask for an ID. If you're at a gunshow and you happen to run into a undercover ATF agent and don't ask for an Ohio ID, see what happens!

 

You also better be selling to a person that's 21 for a handgun and 18 for a long gun.

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One if the reasons I am very cautious about buying and selling guns is I grew up with a Dad that was quite unscrupulous at times.

I recall he would buy guns from other unscrupulous individuals. One in particular showed up one day and told my Dad he needed to get rid of a certain revolver that my Dad had purchased from him. 

Now, this was in Pennsylvania in the late 70’s. PA had a handgun registration process back then and I am pretty sure any handgun purchase also had a 3 day wait with a Sheriffs background check.

My Dad asked “Why?” and the guy said “That gun was involved in a robbery and a shooting and the police are tracking it.” 

I have no idea what the details were, all the players are now dead, so I figure no one’s going to show up wanting details. 

All I do know is my Dad got pretty mad at this guy and some harsh words were spoken as my Dad went for the gun that guy bolted. I think he thought the gun was about to be involved in another shooting.

My Dad gets the revolver, an unknown brand to me. It wasn’t a Smith or a Colt, otherwise I would probably still have it. ;)

He tells me to take it down to the river and toss it.

I am not an idiot, even as a teenager, I did not want to become “an accessory after the fact”. Yeah, I watched Perry Mason.

I went to the river but I didn’t toss the gun.

I brought it home and hid it in the basement. 

Sure enough, the next day, police Officers arrived from a couple of different agencies telling my Dad they heard he received a certain “pistol” and that they wanted it.

My Dad “Knew nothing” but he was taken in for questioning. Later that day he came home really PO’d. He asked me time and time again if I threw the “pistol” away, where I threw it, how far out into the river I threw it. 

From what I remember that gun was owned by a guy that illegally sold it to another guy that used it to rob a store. He shot the clerk and another person but they did not die. He also shot a woman because she threatened to call the police. That guy sold the gun to his friend who in turn sold it to my Dad. 

When I left home at 17 that guns remained where I stashed it in our grungy basement. 

If someone had died in those shootings I would have turned that gun into the police.

My Dad and his friends were all shady characters that I really wanted no parts of. I left the gun hidden in case it somehow ever came back to me.

 

That long story is just one example of why I do not a buy or sell guns without going through the legal process where ever I live.

 

I vowed years ago to never do anything that would get me thrown in jail on account of another person’s actions...Not even my Dad’s.

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In Colorado nowadays, there is no problem.... ALL sales MUST go through an FFL and both the NICS check and a Colorado Bureau of Investigations (CBI) check for domestic violence incidents, restraining orders, etc. (providing some law enforcement agency or judge forgot to report it!).  No use worrying about "universal background checks", here in Colorado, we already got 'em!  Of course that doesn't, in fact, apply to on-the-street transactions between one perp and another.  Only the honest people obey the law! :unsure:

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13 minutes ago, Trailrider #896 said:

In Colorado nowadays, there is no problem.... ALL sales MUST go through an FFL and both the NICS check and a Colorado Bureau of Investigations (CBI) check for domestic violence incidents, restraining orders, etc. (providing some law enforcement agency or judge forgot to report it!).  No use worrying about "universal background checks", here in Colorado, we already got 'em!  Of course that doesn't, in fact, apply to on-the-street transactions between one perp and another.  Only the honest people obey the law! :unsure:

Yep.

Our local gun club sponsors a big gun show every year. We have several FFLs there to do background checks. Every firearm purchaser must go thru them before they get the gun they purchased. They pay the FFL directly and when they pass the check, the gun is properly marked as legally purchased. Everything has to be in place before the buyer is allowed to leave with the gun.

 

When I sell a gun FTF, I tell the buyer we have to make a trip to our local gunshop and they have to pass a background check before I'll give them possession.

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I ask to see a drivers license and please sign this paper right here that says you bought this gun. Had a guy refuse to sign once. I refused to sell.

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1 hour ago, Henry T Harrison said:

It’s a moot point for me I will never buy or sell a gun without going through an FFL period 

That’s the safest way to do it.

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11 hours ago, Henry T Harrison said:

It’s a moot point for me I will never buy or sell a gun without going through an FFL period 

Even at a cowboy shoot where you know the person???

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34 minutes ago, Rye Miles #13621 said:

Even at a cowboy shoot where you know the person???

I once sold a pistol to a friend and yes we went through an FFL. Less than six weeks later he was dead. I have no idea what happened to that gun but I’m not worried because it’s not in my name.

Another time years ago we had a shooter who came to our pin shoots for a season before we discovered he was a convicted felon and ran him off. You never know 

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Face to Face is illegal in California.
This is how it works in CA:
 

------------------------------------
Gun Show or Store Orders
------------------------------------
• Pay the vendor for a non-stock gun
• Wait X days for distributor shipment arrival
• Drive to the vendors shop for paperwork
• Fill out ATF Form 4473 Firearm Transfer Record
• Provide ID
• Provide legal proof-of-address (rifle)
• Provide second legal proof-of-address (handgun)
• Pay $25 DROS fee
• Pay $25 Firearm Safety Course fee
• Pay retail Sales Tax
• Pay for mandatory trigger lock
• Start 10 day waiting period
• Start 30 day additional handgun waiting period
• Drive to the vendors shop for delivery
• Demonstrate basic operator proficiency with new gun

-----------------------------------------
Gun Show or Store Purchases
-----------------------------------------
• Pay the show for an in-stock gun
• Fill out ATF Form 4473 Firearm Transfer Record
• Provide ID
• Provide legal proof-of-address (rifle)
• Provide second legal proof-of-address (handgun)
• Pay $25 DROS fee
• Pay $25 Firearm Safety Course fee
• Pay retail Sales Tax
• Pay for mandatory trigger lock
• Start 10 day waiting period
• Start 30 day additional handgun waiting period
• Drive to the vendors shop for delivery
• Demonstrate basic operator proficiency with new gun

---------------------------
Internet Gun Orders
---------------------------
• Pay the internet vendor for gun and shipping
• Notify your FFL local shop
• Wait X days for funds to clear
• Wait X days for vendor to ship
• Wait X days for gun to arrive

• Drive to your local gun shop for paperwork
• Fill out ATF Form 4473 Firearm Transfer Record
• Provide ID
• Provide legal proof-of-address (rifle)
• Provide second legal proof-of-address (handgun)
• Pay $100 FFL transfer fee
• Pay $25 DROS fee
• Pay $25 Firearm Safety Course fee
• Pay retail Sales Tax
• Pay for mandatory trigger lock
• Start 10 day waiting period
• Start 30 day waiting period between hand guns
• Drive back to your gun shop
• Demonstrate basic operator proficiency with new gun

--------------------------
Background Check
--------------------------
• (NCIC) FBI National Crime Information Center
• (NICS) FBI National Instant Criminal Background Check System
• (III) FBI Interstate Identification Index
• Federal Criminal Records
• State Criminal Records

 

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47 minutes ago, Henry T Harrison said:

I once sold a pistol to a friend and yes we went through an FFL. Less than six weeks later he was dead. I have no idea what happened to that gun but I’m not worried because it’s not in my name.

Another time years ago we had a shooter who came to our pin shoots for a season before we discovered he was a convicted felon and ran him off. You never know 

Touche!

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Whenever I have sold a weapon to an individual...I ask for a valid ID and a concealed carry permit. Then I have a receipt book and write out a receipt with both their name and address. Put the make model and serial number on the receipt. Covers both of us. But I don't usually sell many...much to my wife's dislike.

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