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Boomstick Bruce

WTC: back up guns

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10 hours ago, T-Square said:

Thanks, next Saturday, at Riverbend, I'm going to start the catagory; Frontiersmen Gunfighter, 49er.

im sure to win this catagory !! LOL

There is such a category where this is legal.......B Western:)

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It looks to me like you don’t have “backup guns” for the category you’re entering.  For instance if I’m entered in the frontier cartridge category and run out of black powder ammo, I couldn’t just substitute smokeless for the rest of the match without incurring an “out of category” penalty.

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On 8/31/2019 at 2:47 PM, Abilene, SASS # 27489 said:

Hmm, in nearly 20 years, I have never needed a backup gun.  But then again, I don't shoot Remmies. :D

 

Boy did I ever jinx myself there!  Today was the first match I've shot since I made that comment.  At the loading table on stage 1, I noticed that the hand spring had just broken on my Kirst-Strite '61 conversion.  I shot it on that stage by pointing down each time to cock it.  I would normally not have any backup guns, but it just so happened I bought a Cimarron charcoal blue 7th Cavalry yesterday and had it in the car to possibly pop off a few rounds.  So I used that for the rest of the match.  Lucked out!   :)

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Gamer thoughts:

 

Shoot the illegal pistol on the 1st stage as needed:   10 second penalty.   If you only shoot the

legal pistol and take 5 misses without shooting the illegal pistol, you've added 15 more seconds

to your stage time.....   :lol:

 

Your on your own for the rest of the stages.    If you are lucky, your backup pistol won't be needed

until only 1 or 2 stages remain for the day.   And hope you don't need it for 3 stages..... :o

 

..........Widder

 

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On 8/31/2019 at 10:42 AM, Boomstick Bruce said:

So as some of you know i have switched from wrangler to duelist. i shoot a pair of stainless 5.5" Uberti 58's with gated kirst conversions in 45colt. my back up is an adjustable sights 5.5" Remington 58 with a taylors drop in cylinder also in 45colt.

 

Providing your backup is also a Uberti just carry a screwdriver and use it as a parts gun to get the main match pistol back up and running.  There's not to many things that will break that you cant fix in just a few minutes with parts on hand. Before I got a pair of backups I carried a full set of internals for my 58's in my cart. 

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5 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Gamer thoughts:

 

Shoot the illegal pistol on the 1st stage as needed:   10 second penalty.   If you only shoot the

legal pistol and take 5 misses without shooting the illegal pistol, you've added 15 more seconds

to your stage time.....   :lol:

 

Your on your own for the rest of the stages.    If you are lucky, your backup pistol won't be needed

until only 1 or 2 stages remain for the day.   And hope you don't need it for 3 stages..... :o

 

..........Widder

 

Widder, I thought taking a penalty or doing something on purpose to get a better time was subject to spirit of the game penalty. 

Kind of like if order was pistol rifle shotgun. They fire the rifle in the wrong sequence and just dump the pistols. You ask why they did that and they say, well I got a P on the rifle and you cant get but one per stage and it was faster to just dump the pistols.

 

I been wrong before though and not just when I ordered the wrong nanner split.

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4 hours ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

 

Providing your backup is also a Uberti just carry a screwdriver and use it as a parts gun to get the main match pistol back up and running.  There's not to many things that will break that you cant fix in just a few minutes with parts on hand. Before I got a pair of backups I carried a full set of internals for my 58's in my cart. 

 

 

no unfortunately its a pietta...

 

but i do have nine 1858 remingtons in all, 3 are 5.5" barrels (my main match stainless ubertis and the adjustable "back up" pietta) also i have a lyman 58 with an 8" barrel, my iver johnson '58 8", my 3" snubby (pietta), my engraved pietta (it was a gift and will never be shot in a match) and my pair of ASM 12" barrels with adjustable sites... i'll probably take the 5.5" adjustable gun and trade it for a 5.5" fixed gun in the future... until then i'll use the either the lyman or the iver johnson 58 as a back up since the drop in cylinder fits those two guns perfectly

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Sign up in B western.  Any shooting style, any legal main match revolvers.

So you can do duelest and if you need or want usebyour adjustable sight 58.

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14 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

Gamer thoughts:

 

Shoot the illegal pistol on the 1st stage as needed:   10 second penalty.   If you only shoot the

legal pistol and take 5 misses without shooting the illegal pistol, you've added 15 more seconds

to your stage time.....   :lol:

 

Your on your own for the rest of the stages.    If you are lucky, your backup pistol won't be needed

until only 1 or 2 stages remain for the day.   And hope you don't need it for 3 stages..... :o

 

..........Widder

 

 

8 hours ago, Tennessee williams said:

Widder, I thought taking a penalty or doing something on purpose to get a better time was subject to spirit of the game penalty. 

Kind of like if order was pistol rifle shotgun. They fire the rifle in the wrong sequence and just dump the pistols. You ask why they did that and they say, well I got a P on the rifle and you cant get but one per stage and it was faster to just dump the pistols.

 

I been wrong before though and not just when I ordered the wrong nanner split.

 

O.K..... lets look at it from the SOG point of view.

Lets say the pistols are LAST.

Lets say the shooter decides to 'take a gamble' and shoot the illegal pistol to earn a 10 second 'P'

instead of the 25 seconds for unfired rounds.   THEN, its decided that the shooter really should

earn a SOG for that type of conduct.

 

QUESTION:  would the SOG benefit the shooter from getting a DNF?

And if the shooter suspected the SOG would be applied and decided the SOG

was better than the DNF, would that warrant a SOG?

 

Looks like one of them "dang if you do and dang if you don't" situations.

:D

 

P.S. - actually, I personally don't see the SOG being applied in this situation,

but like you, I been wrong before.

 

..........Widder

  

Edited by Widder, SASS #59054

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Folks, you are all missing something important!

This is an excellent reason for Bruce to acquire some new guns.

 

Duffield

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3 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

 

O.K..... lets look at it from the SOG point of view.

Lets say the pistols are LAST.

Lets say the shooter decides to 'take a gamble' and shoot the illegal pistol to earn a 10 second 'P'

instead of the 25 seconds for unfired rounds.   THEN, its decided that the shooter really should

earn a SOG for that type of conduct.

 

QUESTION:  would the SOG benefit the shooter from getting a DNF?

And if the shooter suspected the SOG would be applied and decided the SOG

was better than the DNF, would that warrant a SOG?

 

Looks like one of them "dang if you do and dang if you don't" situations.

:D

 

P.S. - actually, I personally don't see the SOG being applied in this situation,

but like you, I been wrong before.

 

..........Widder

  

I wouldn't think anybody would give you a dnf because of a declared broken gun. It would have to be the last gun at any rate. I think if you attempt it you cant get a dnf. Not sure. 

 

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

I wouldn't think anybody would give you a dnf because of a declared broken gun. It would have to be the last gun at any rate. I think if you attempt it you cant get a dnf. Not sure. 

 

 

What "broken gun"?. <_<

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

I wouldn't think anybody would give you a dnf because of a declared broken gun. It would have to be the last gun at any rate. I think if you attempt it you cant get a dnf. Not sure. 

 

 

TN,

but we ain't talking about a 'broke' gun.    We are talking about an 'Illegal' firearm being used

in a category where it can't be used.

 

..........Widder

 

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6 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

What "broken gun"?. <_<

The one that broke he doesnt have a LEGAL backup for.

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4 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

TN,

but we ain't talking about a 'broke' gun.    We are talking about an 'Illegal' firearm being used

in a category where it can't be used.

 

..........Widder

 

See I was asking if it could become a sog penalty by knowingly using the illegal backup gun to get a 10 second penalty instead of 25 seconds worth of misses on a BROKE gun. 

I thought knowingly doing something illegal to get a better time COULD constitute a sog penalty.

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12 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

What "broken gun"?. <_<

 

4 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

The one that broke he doesnt have a LEGAL backup for.

 

Are you suggesting that he carry the broken revolver for the remainder of the match and just take the misses for "unfired rounds" on the rest of the stages?

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5 minutes ago, PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L said:

 

 

Are you suggesting that he carry the broken revolver for the remainder of the match and just take the misses for "unfired rounds" on the rest of the stages?

No. I am asking if using the known illegal firearm to get a penalty of 10 seconds instead of taking the 25 seconds for misses for the broke gun COULD constitute a sog penalty since you are saving time by knowingly committing an illegal action.

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5 hours ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

 

 

O.K..... lets look at it from the SOG point of view.

Lets say the pistols are LAST.

Lets say the shooter decides to 'take a gamble' and shoot the illegal pistol to earn a 10 second 'P'

instead of the 25 seconds for unfired rounds.   THEN, its decided that the shooter really should

earn a SOG for that type of conduct.

 

QUESTION:  would the SOG benefit the shooter from getting a DNF?

And if the shooter suspected the SOG would be applied and decided the SOG

was better than the DNF, would that warrant a SOG?

 

Looks like one of them "dang if you do and dang if you don't" situations.

:D

 

P.S. - actually, I personally don't see the SOG being applied in this situation,

but like you, I been wrong before.

 

..........Widder

  

From my perspective the gamble occurred when the shooter knowingly brought a pistol that was illegal for his category to the LT and loaded it.  The question then is why would he do that?  To shoot it I suppose.  Why would he knowingly plan on shooting an illegal revolver?  The best conclusion I could reach would be because he thought a 10 second P was better than 25 seconds worth of misses.  I think that's a pretty clear cut SOG.

 

Pretty different than a duelist who cocks two pistols, or a BP shooter who gets a smokeless load mixed in with his BP ammo.

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3 minutes ago, Tennessee williams said:

No. I am asking if using the known illegal firearm to get a penalty of 10 seconds instead of taking the 25 seconds for misses for the broke gun COULD constitute a sog penalty since you are saving time by knowingly committing an illegal action.

To me the answer is yes.

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Just borrow a revolver and ammo from another shooter to finish the match.

No penalties (except maybe for any misses incurred while shooting an unfamiliar firearm)

 

Then buy a LEGAL backup for the category.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

I think PWB just ordered us all to buy another backup gun. 

 

 

 

Sounds good to me!  So, I have about 5 different sets so I guess I need 5 new backups. :)

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4 hours ago, Ramblin Gambler said:

I think PWB just ordered us all to buy another backup gun. 

 

 

Well, he is the spokesperson for the governing body of our sport--Time to do some shoppin'!!!!

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