A Different Membership Topic

[Captain Bill Burt]

2 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

If you ever have a chance to watch police vehicle stop training videos, you might change your tune.   To a cop, particularly at night, a vehicle stop is no small thing, and there are a lot of commemorative plaques on police station walls around the country to show why.   It's damn dangerous work.    So you might  think about making it easier on them whenever you can.   They want to see their families again too.  

RIGHT! Me abiding by Georgia state laws is making things tough on Georgia cops.  Dude, you're so far out there.  You have the gall to come on a website based around a shooting sport and state that in your 'humble' opinion the rest of the country should adopt the insane gun laws you have in California? 

 

This is a joke right? 

 

If you lumped the friends I have into categories the biggest one would be educators and the second biggest one would be cops.  You don't know what you're talking about. Georgia cops don't want California gun laws.

 

When my home was broken into and I shot two of the perps tires out with my shotgun so he couldn't get away every single cop who responded to the call either shook my hand or gave me a high five.  The detective, the crime scene guys, and all the regular patrolmen that responded.  One of them still stops and talks to me when I'm out fishing on the lake.  

 

You are right that police work is dangerous, but exactly how does restricting the rights of law abiding citizens make it less so?  You think the gang banger in the inner city with 10 outstanding warrants is going to unload his gun and lock it in the trunk because he's worried about breaking the law?

 

[Dusty Devil Dale]

5 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

RIGHT! Me abiding by Georgia state laws is making things tough on Georgia cops.  Dude, you're so far out there.  You have the gall to come on a website based around a shooting sport and state that in your 'humble' opinion the rest of the country should adopt the insane gun laws you have in California? 

 

This is a joke right? 

 

If you lumped the friends I have into categories the biggest one would be educators and the second biggest one would be cops.  You don't know what you're talking about. Georgia cops don't want California gun laws.

 

When my home was broken into and I shot two of the perps tires out with my shotgun so he couldn't get away every single cop who responded to the call either shook my hand or gave me a high five.  The detective, the crime scene guys, and all the regular patrolmen that responded.  One of them still stops and talks to me when I'm out fishing on the lake.  

 

You are right that police work is dangerous, but exactly how does restricting the rights of law abiding citizens make it less so?  You think the gang banger in the inner city with 10 outstanding warrants is going to unload his gun and lock it in the trunk because he's worried about breaking the law?

 

Quite a short fuse, I would say.  

If you don't like what I write, then simply skip over and don't read it.  I don't care one way or the other.  But save all the railing and anger. 

 

One of my friends had a license plate that I always coveted. 

IBMEUBU.   Have a good evening.  

[Captain Bill Burt]

5 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Quite a short fuse, I would say.  

If you don't like what I write, then simply skip over and don't read it.  I don't care one way or the other.  But save all the railing and anger. 

 

One of my friends had a license plate that I always coveted. 

IBMEUBU.   Have a good evening.  

It’s not about you being you, other than the arrogance part, it’s you thinking the rest of us need to be more like you.

[Krazy Kajun]

Given the entertainment value of this thread it would seem more appropriate to move it over to the Saloon.

 

Kajun

[Dusty Devil Dale]

27 minutes ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

It’s not about you being you, other than the arrogance part, it’s you thinking the rest of us need to be more like you.

Who ever said that?  

And who besides you said every state should adopt California laws? 

I never did.   I said "common sense..." 

 

   Again, have a great evening.  

Don't stay up late, drinking, and brooding about all of this.  None of it is worth the stress.  

[Dusty Devil Dale]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

It’s not about you being you, other than the arrogance part, it’s you thinking the rest of us need to be more like you.

Another subject:

Are you anywhere near Dorian?  How bad is it, really? 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

From what I remember of my time in California (lived there 4 years) the firearm has to be unloaded (wherever it is), out of the reach of the operator (like in a trunk or back of a pickup) and the ammo must be separate from the firearm. Was 15 years ago and I'm sure I inadvertently brought terrible, illegal items into the state (stupidly thinking they were harmless gun parts) but I never had any issues with the authorities because I was very careful in what I did.

Living on a military installation, there are stringent enough regulations to follow, so I am usually well inside local rules anyway.

Funny, when I lived in Idaho, they wanted everything visible to THEM when you came in the gate (like up on the dashboard!) Had gate guards get real nervous when a friend and I came in the gate one night with "a few" firearms in the trunk. From then on, we placed them up on the dash when we came in and they were fine. Lol  Guess they figured if they could see em, we weren't hiding anything. Funny

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

12 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said:

Its deja vu all over again. Many years ago everyone outside of California was bitching about the location for EOT. Move it east, put it mid-west etc. So they moved it and the attendance for shooters and spectators dropped significantly!

It isn't location its a drop in shooters and the will to travel.

And I don't know what this has to do with it but I have broken the speed limit, turned without using a signal, snuck into the drags and movies. Take me now I am truly evil.

Ike

Your post fails to address the non-shooter attendance issue... And sadly equates major traffic infractions with minor ones.

 

Nice post.

[Dusty Devil Dale]

23 hours ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Congrats! You are rare indeed.

Never got over the speed limit? Never?

Never knowingly or intentionally.   I've looked down at times and realized that moving with traffic my speed has crept up.  I guess I lucked out by noticing it before the blue lights came on behind me.  

My parents both passed before I was 17.  But somehow they raised me to obey the law, regardless of convenience, or my own definition of what makes sense, or what everyone else does and gets away with.  And most of the time, not always, I can look at myself in the mirror without talking to myself.  

 

 

 

[The Rainmaker, SASS #11631]

I'm not advocating breaking the law, just making the point that most every driver in the world has exceeded the speed limit at one time or another; not that they make a habit of it. I do know others ALWAYS speed.

[Yul Lose]

2 hours ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Never knowingly or intentionally.   I've looked down at times and realized that moving with traffic my speed has crept up.  I guess I lucked out by noticing it before the blue lights came on behind me.  

My parents both passed before I was 17.  But somehow they raised me to obey the law, regardless of convenience, or my own definition of what makes sense, or what everyone else does and gets away with.  And most of the time, not always, I can look at myself in the mirror without talking to myself.  

 

 

 

I was starting to think that you were only the second person ever to never do anything wrong and then you go and ruin it by saying that you actually have broken the speed limit, you’re a mortal after all..

[Dusty Devil Dale]

On 9/4/2019 at 6:42 PM, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

DDD, if you are going to cite applicable law, please be accurate.

 

1)  Carrying a firearm in consoles and glove compartments are prohibited ONLY because those locations are specifically not considered lockboxes.  You MAY carry a firearm in either location with a CCW.

 

2) Only handguns and rifles that fall into the assault weapon category must be carried in a suitable locked box.  Standard hunting/sports rifles/shotguns may be carried in other manners that are not secured by a lock.

 

JJ

Can you Pls cite the section number regarding the glove box/console?  My CCW pt language differs from your understanding, but I will grant that the language is less than clear.  I do need to be clear on that question.  

Thank you for calling it out 

 

Without looking back, I hope I did not say rifles or shotguns need to be in locked boxes.  But I believe they are required to be cased.   I believe, in most urban locations, they cannot be open carried.  They have to be cased even to be carried outside to the vehicle. 

Correct me again, If I an wrong. 

 

OK, I checked back and you are correct, I did say all "firearms" have to be in locked cases.   You are correct that I was incorrect.  The lock box restriction applies only to handguns or assault weapons, as defined.   But my understanding is that long guns do need to be carried out of sight, presumably in some kind of case or sock.   In most municipalities, You cannot open carry a long gun down the street from your home or a store or business to your vehicle uncased.  

 

If you are transporting a firearm to or from a shooting range or to or from a hunting expedition, several exemptions apply. 

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

53 minutes ago, Dusty Devil Dale said:

Can you Pls cite the section number regarding the glove box/console?  My CCW pt language differs from your understanding, but I will grant that the language is less than clear.  I do need to be clear on that question.  

Thank you for calling it out 

 

Without looking back, I hope I did not say rifles or shotguns need to be in locked boxes.  But I believe they are required to be cased.   I believe, in most urban locations, they cannot be open carried.  They have to be cased even to be carried outside to the vehicle. 

Correct me again, If I an wrong. 

 

OK, I checked back and you are correct, I did say all "firearms" have to be in locked cases.   You are correct that I was incorrect.  The lock box restriction applies only to handguns or assault weapons, as defined.   But my understanding is that long guns do need to be carried out of sight, presumably in some kind of case or sock.   In most municipalities, You cannot open carry a long gun down the street from your home or a store or business to your vehicle uncased.  

 

If you are transporting a firearm to or from a shooting range or to or from a hunting expedition, several exemptions apply. 

CAPC 16850 speaks to what is considered a locked box.  The console and glove box are specifically spoken to as not a lawful locked container even if they are lockable.

 

What is on your CCW may be a local suggestion, recommendation, or requirement that is not supported by the CAPC.  If you carry a lawfully permitted firearm in an area along with your vehicle registration, inform the LEO contacting you of the presence of your sidearm prior to opening the area to retrieve your registration so there are no surprises for him or you.

 

Long guns are considered unconcealable and are not governed by the CAPC when transported in a vehicle.  In rural areas, you will commonly find farmers/ranchers/hunters with unloaded long guns carried in open sight within reach of the owner as they conduct day to day business.

 

The language is ambiguous when said firearms are carried to and from your vehicle in an urban environment but when open carry was abolished, there was some talk of including long guns in that order.  I am unclear if long guns have been included in the open carry restriction or not.  It would make sense to err on the side of caution in such instances and have them in a suitable carrying case, no lock required.  

 

While not required to be kept out of sight in a vehicle, it makes good sense to keep long guns covered up in some manner if you must leave them unattended.

 

The CAPC sections on firearms and weapons is more than 130 pages long and is very enlightening to read about things we assume are true.  Don't take what someone says as gospel, read the book or call the CADOJ for an answer.

[Pat Riot]

Why is this in the Saloon? This belongs in the Wire.

[Lawdog Dago Dom]

On 9/4/2019 at 2:34 PM, Assassin said:

Same with Sparta, Ill.

No sir. Sparta is a good 5 hours south of Chicago/Cook County Court circus.

Southern Illinois is very pro-second amendment, hunting and fishing.

Very conservative.

The problem is Chicago has the population that gives them House and Senate seats.

[Assassin]

1 hour ago, Lawdog Dago Dom said:

No sir. Sparta is a good 5 hours south of Chicago/Cook County Court circus.

Southern Illinois is very pro-second amendment, hunting and fishing.

Very conservative.

The problem is Chicago has the population that gives them House and Senate seats.

I agree with you. However, nothing against Sparta, it's in Illinois and many folks just won't attend because it's associated with crime and murder. Most people I know traveling east try to get through Illinois without stopping for gas, food, or lodging. This is the same for California. Although a wonderful place they can't get past the stigma of crime infestation and the cops are out to get anyone with a gun attitude. I've not been to Sparta I'm sure it's great. Just letting you know people have a preconceived notion in their mind, it's only getting worse with the violence in Chicago and it is in the same state. Here, in Wyoming we have to deal with Jackson where all the celebrities dwell and the bring their progressive ideas from elsewhere. Should shooters give Sparta a chance, yes. Are they going to, that's yet to be determined.

[Yul Lose]

2 hours ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

Why is this in the Saloon? This belongs in the Wire.

More of a Saloon topic.

[Pat Riot]

9 minutes ago, Yul Lose said:

More of a Saloon topic.

 

I was just bein’ bad... 

[Yul Lose]

9 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

I was just bein’ bad... 

I figured. It kinda jumped the tracks.

[Father Kit Cool Gun Garth]

9 minutes ago, Pat Riot, SASS #13748 said:

 

I was just bein’ bad... 

 

Pat:

      Time-Out! 

 

 

[Pat Riot]

1 minute ago, Father Kit Cool Gun Garth said:

 

Pat:

      Time-Out! 

 

 

 

A chair? Why that’s no punishment! 

I will gladly sit in the corner. I get to hang out with my favorite person and relax. 

[Captain Bill Burt]

9 hours ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

 

 

The CAPC sections on firearms and weapons is more than 130 pages long and is very enlightening to read about things we assume are true.  Don't take what someone says as gospel, read the book or call the CADOJ for an answer.

LOL.  This is why many folks are hesitant to ship or bring guns into California.  You two are both residents and you're not agreeing on what the law says.  You have to read a novella just to get a handle on things?  What if it's a fifth Saturday, are there any special rules that kick in? What if I don't have a hat on?

 

This reminds me of the parable about boiling a frog.  From your perspective, having been in the pot for a while, everything seems fine.  From mine on the outside looking in, it looks mighty hot in there, I think I'll pass.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I just got back from the SASS Canadian Nationals,  only missed one since we started to have them .....

I would venture that less than 40% of Cowboy Shooters up here are SASS members...

This is mostly due to them not shooting at SASS regulated matches and the Cost to belong ....

You can Shoot the Alberta and B.C. ( think State shoots ) championship matches with-out belonging to SASS....

The cost of SASS affiliation for clubs is more than many clubs want to bear ....

We had Cowboy Shooting before SASS ever came to Canada and many see little to NO benefit to joining SASS ...

Most shooters have plenty of matches to shoot with-out doing SASS events ...

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

1 hour ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

LOL.  This is why many folks are hesitant to ship or bring guns into California.  You two are both residents and you're not agreeing on what the law says.  You have to read a novella just to get a handle on things?  What if it's a fifth Saturday, are there any special rules that kick in? What if I don't have a hat on?

 

This reminds me of the parable about boiling a frog.  From your perspective, having been in the pot for a while, everything seems fine.  From mine on the outside looking in, it looks mighty hot in there, I think I'll pass.

Actually, it's not nearly as bad as folks want to make it Captain.  The sections relating to the carry and transportation of firearms is only a few pages long and simple to understand.

 

I like your parable of boiling the frog and yes we are used to the heat but our firearm transportation rules are easy to comply with :-).  You can come to California with your SASS guns secured in your trunk without worry.  The trunk is considered a locked container, just have them unloaded.  If you want to bring your CW, as long as it has a magazine capacity of 10 rds or less, it must be in the trunk or in a locked container and unloaded as well.  It's a bit of a PITA but not hard to comply with.  If you get stopped for speeding :-), the CHP will not ask you if you have any firearms unless there is probably cause to believe you have committed a crime.

 

The difference between DDD and me is he is a regular citizen with a CCW whereas I am a 30-year LEO with 25-years as a rangemaster.  I am required to know the current laws regarding firearms and legal carry of concealed weapons as well as the specific parameters of the use of deadly force.  Many folks simply don't take the time to do their own research and rely on what someone says.  My whole point in injecting my comments into the thread is to keep misinformation from being spread.

 

When I travel out of state, even though I am covered in all 50 states under LEOSA, I make sure I know the state laws regarding CW carry because some jurisdictions won't honor Federal Law, that's just good business and keeps me out of trouble.

 

The biggest difference out here is we don't have the Castle Doctrine so our threshold for the use of deadly force is much higher than where you live.  That doesn't mean you can't defend yourself or that you are required to retreat, it just means there has to be a defined threat to life in order to use deadly force.

 

Come on out to California if you get the chance.  There are a lot of great clubs and folks who will welcome you.  Let the clubs know in advance and I'll bet you get guns offered up for you to use if you're not comfortable bringing your own.  

 

If you want more information, you can PM me and I will be happy to pass on or find out what you need to know.

[bgavin]

I am #108882, July 2, 2019.

I would think the office makes up a big run of sequentially numbered badges.
 

[Captain Bill Burt]

Jim it sounds pretty straightforward.  I appreciate you taking the time to lay that out.  Thanks.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

On 9/4/2019 at 7:17 PM, Yul Lose said:

dumping their trash in my trash can that I pay $125.00 a month for.

Wow!!!   You pay $125.00 a month for trash pickup?  

 

You guys obviously aren't staying on topic so I figured I'd ask.

[Yul Lose]

3 minutes ago, Badlands Bob #61228 said:

Wow!!!   You pay $125.00 a month for trash pickup?  

 

You guys obviously aren't staying on topic so I figured I'd ask.

Yep, 1 trash can, 1 can for recycles and 3 cans for leaf, twigs, etc... living here ain’t cheap and us folks that have actual addresses and pay property taxes have to pay it regardless. Those that just have a mailbox and live in a grove don’t. But they think nothing of dumping their trash in my garbage cans. My son in law tried to prove to them once that he recycled 100% of everything and it didn’t make any difference they still charge him $75.00 a month for a trash can and recycle bin that he never uses.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

And I grumbled when they went to $18 a month.  Highway robbery, I said.  I guess I should just count my blessings.

[Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104]

5 hours ago, Captain Bill Burt said:

Jim it sounds pretty straightforward.  I appreciate you taking the time to lay that out.  Thanks.

You are very welcome.

[Utah Bob #35998]

1 hour ago, Yul Lose said:

Yep, 1 trash can, 1 can for recycles and 3 cans for leaf, twigs, etc... living here ain’t cheap and us folks that have actual addresses and pay property taxes have to pay it regardless. Those that just have a mailbox and live in a grove don’t. But they think nothing of dumping their trash in my garbage cans. My son in law tried to prove to them once that he recycled 100% of everything and it didn’t make any difference they still charge him $75.00 a month for a trash can and recycle bin that he never uses.

I haul my own. We’re too far out to get trash service. Costs me $5 per trash barrel. ‘Bout 10-15 bucks a month.

Greatly entertaining thread so far. 

But shouldn’t it be in the Classifieds? 

[Yul Lose]

Just now, Utah Bob #35998 said:

I haul my own. We’re too far out to get trash service. Costs me $5 per trash barrel. ‘Bout 10-15 bucks a month.

Greatly entertaining thread so far. 

But shouldn’t it be in the Classifieds? 

Even if you haul your own here you still have to pay for the two (minimum) containers. Jose down the street doesn’t think he should be troubled with hauling his trash into the transfer station, that’s what my cans are for and he doesn’t have to pay for cans because he’s living in a grove with a wooden post and a mail box out front. For some reason they’ll give him mail service but the garbage he generates is mine to pay for.