John Hangman Ruth Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I didn't want to highjack the other thread about membership dues, so I started a new one. I often get the sense that this sport is somewhat dying by reading some of the threads here. Obviously some of our more veteran members are getting to the point of not being able to compete any longer for whatever reason and so that takes away from the number of active shooters participating regularly. I joined SASS last September, so I'm hitting my 1 year mark. My badge number is 107789. The other day on social media I saw someone post about getting their new SASS membership and their badge number was 1091XX (dont remember exactly and not trying to call anyone out). That's a bit over 1300 new badge numbers in a year (assuming they're issued concurrently). At a bit over 100 new members per month, that seems like pretty good growth. Maybe it was growing faster in the past? I still see the sport billed as "the fastest growing shooting sport". Am I missing something? Are annuals, state matches, regionals, etc., shrinking in numbers each year? Maybe we're on an upswing? What do you fine folk think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Owen No One Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 You can call me out, joined this month 109100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Back in 1998-2005 we were growing by 8-10k annually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hangman Ruth Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 4 minutes ago, Assassin said: Back in 1998-2005 we were growing by 8-10k annually. That explains a lot, especially for the guys that have been around since the beginning. Are the numbers at least encouraging or would you still consider the sport in a decline? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Just now, John Hangman Ruth said: That explains a lot, especially for the guys that have been around since the beginning. Are the numbers at least encouraging or would you still consider the sport in a decline? I haven't seen much change in the last 15+ years... Heard the same worries about participation in 2004. That said, EOT in Norco brought a lot of attention to our game and that's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I'm just taking a guess, our numbers are up about 22-23k in the past ten years. A couple years were very slim, I do believe we are moving in the right direction. Attrition is taking it's toll. I have friends and family (wife) who refuse to pay the additional $20. People are dying, getting old, or found other hobbies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evil dogooder Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 When I started we had 7 sass affiliated clubs within 2 hours. Some getting over 100 shootersfor a monthly. Now we have 2. State didn't even make 80 people this year. Now there are still clubs but not affiliated anymore. The one who used to draw the largest monthly, way over 100 now struggles to get 10. We still get a good flow of new shooters but at least in mn the numbers are way down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rye Miles #13621 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I know at least 6 local members that quit SASS, they're getting older and do not want to participate in State and above matches so they still shoot at the local matches but don't feel the need to belong to SASS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick Bruce Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 im in my 3rd year of SASS, our club used to draw 100 people for a monthly and had to turn away people for the state shoot... now we barely get more than 70 people for the state shoot... this last monthly shoot we had our biggest turn out for a monthly since i started... 22 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Much of what is happening has been said here; Lost interest, poor health, economic shifts, death. The generation that played cowboys and Indians and grew up watching movie and TV westerns is fading away. At the last SASS convention we were told the active membership annual dues and life members was around 25,000. Life members contribute nothing to the SASS bottom line unless they attend a State, regional or national match. The decline in the number of vendors at major shoots and listed in the Chronical reflects the decline in participation and membership. Our club has stayed about the same size and shooters attendance for the last 8 years. We loose some we gain some. The big popular shoots that used to turn people away are now lucky to get enough for 6 posse's. We went from two annual shoots with 175 people to 1 with 65 people! Talk around the campfire is SASS has about 10 years left before SASS can't afford to operate any more. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I put up a YouTube channel for our match videos in March of 2015. I used a group picture is the top banner. I counted 14 people I could identify in the picture. Only two are still shooting with us. Most just wore out. Some moved away. A couple had major lifestyle change. We have picked up new shooters and many from other clubs that have found our range. Weather conditions and competing large matches acount for some low turnout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 14 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: EOT in Norco brought a lot of attention to our game and that's gone. Founders Ranch is an awesome facility that every cowboy shooter should go to at least once. But for non shooters or people not yet involved in the sport it has 3 things going against it. Location, location, location. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 2 hours ago, irish ike, SASS #43615 said: The generation that played cowboys and Indians and grew up watching movie and TV westerns is fading away. True, but the generation that is playing Western video games is ripe for the picking. Red Dead Redemption 2 sold 17 million copies in the first two weeks after release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 48 minutes ago, Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 said: True, but the generation that is playing Western video games is ripe for the picking. Red Dead Redemption 2 sold 17 million copies in the first two weeks after release. I don't see Red Dead bunch coming out of the house to face bugs, weather, some physical activity and relating with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: I don't see Red Dead bunch coming out of the house to face bugs, weather, some physical activity and relating with people. I guess one could make that assumption. By the way, I started cowboy shooting on my own at 17. I never watched westerns growing up, but found SASS while researching the guns I used while playing Red Dead Revolver. So I wouldn't discount an entire group of people that have exposure to the old west genre just because of the media they chose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Slim Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Don't discount Red Dead bringing in more players. I am here specifically because of Red Dead Redemption 2/Red Dead Online. I had been looking at joining SASS for several years but always found an excuse not to. Red Dead 2 was so much fun it pushed me over the edge. Now here I am shooting the same guns as my Red Dead Online character and having a blast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 said: I guess one could make that assumption. By the way, I started cowboy shooting on my own at 17. I never watched westerns growing up, but found SASS while researching the guns I used while playing Red Dead Revolver. So I wouldn't discount an entire group of people that have exposure to the old west genre just because of the media they chose. That's great news! I see by your profile notes that you enjoy a variety of outdoor activities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 I don't buy the growing up watching westerns thing either. I was to young for Gene and Roy. Watched reruns of JW. Watched Eastwood in the theater. Cowboy guns are cooler looking and there are more options than the black guns. We have to make our guns go bang and cycle the actions, black gunners just reload and squeeze the trigger. Folks that like mechanical things are more interested in CAS. I remember when Shifty Jack shot with us in the early 2000's. Marketing needs to take place in order to get the word out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 Follow-up questions for the folks who come to CAS by way of RD2. Is there a way to incorporate some of the RD theme in SASS scenarios to make it more relevant to RD players? Have you talked to other folks that play RD about CAS? What is their reaction? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 15 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: That's great news! I see by your profile notes that you enjoy a variety of outdoor activities. What's you're point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 7 minutes ago, Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 said: What's you're point? Our oldest son was into board games, then video games, then in adult years, fantasy role playing. Although he grew up on a farm he showed no interest in anything outdoors. It's this experience that's formed my opinions - be them slanted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Our oldest son was into board games, then video games, then in adult years, fantasy role playing. Although he grew up on a farm he showed no interest in anything outdoors. It's this experience that's formed my opinions - be them slanted. I get that. I grew up with a 69 Camaro and a 56 nomad parked in our garage and never developed an interest in cars. Have you pointed out to him that you are also in a fantasy role playing game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wayward Slim Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 It would be pretty easy to write stages based on Red Dead 2. The base game has an incredible story. Its something I would recommend any western fan who enjoys playing games take a look at. I am honestly not the most social of people. I don't spend a lot of time talking to other red dead players, but have seen the subject of SASS come up on the game's sub-reddit. I am sure SASS and the publisher of Red Dead Online would benefit from some sort of partnership. The game can bring younger players into SASS, and SASS can bring older people into the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tennessee williams Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 6 hours ago, Boomstick Bruce said: im in my 3rd year of SASS, our club used to draw 100 people for a monthly and had to turn away people for the state shoot... now we barely get more than 70 people for the state shoot... this last monthly shoot we had our biggest turn out for a monthly since i started... 22 At first, I thought you were saying 3 years ago you had 100 people for a monthly until I read the last sentence. Curious, how long ago were you drawing 100 at the monthly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hangman Ruth Posted August 30, 2019 Author Share Posted August 30, 2019 I think there are definitely ways to get more people interested. I've talked to, and read comments by, folks who just think it takes too much money to get into. I fell into that trap. I learned about CAS about the year 2000 and instantly wanted to try it out. However, after thinking that I had to spend mucho money to get involved, I put it off. Now, no doubt you can sink a lot of money into any hobby, but had I realized I could have "borrowed" other people's gear just to try it out (which I actually did at my first match) and that I didn't need a $200 costume in order to play, I probably would have joined much sooner. I'd even venture to say that there are folks who already have the guns to participate, but for whatever reason they're still putting it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 One thing to point out, at 17 I was blessed with very financially supportive parents. The cost to get in the game is definitely a big obstacle for someone younger to get involved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 32 minutes ago, Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 said: Have you pointed out to him that you are also in a fantasy role playing game? I've not. But I was really conflicted about this aspect of CAS because of the fantasy aspcts. I labored over getting involved in it for months. (I'd feel more comfortable with reenactment.) I don't do what I'd call role playing. Pair of blue jeans, long sleeve shirt, engineer boots I already had. Added suspenders, cowboy hat and bandanna. I enjoy the old guns and have found a group of people that also enjoy them. Oldest son is well aware that we're doing CAS and shows no interest in the game. We have a second son that's the polar opposite. He had no interest in game playing of any form. He was always outside on some adventure. Hunting and fishing. Killed has first buck when he was about 12. Still hunts and traps. He's heading out to Montana to hunt elk with a bow in a week or so. Going to be out 20 days. He's a member of a shooting range that has a magnificent CAS range but he shows no interest in participating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 17 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: I haven't seen much change in the last 15+ years... Heard the same worries about participation in 2004. That said, EOT in Norco brought a lot of attention to our game and that's gone. Why do you think that is? I’ve been to EOT 5 years since it’s been in New Mexico. Never made it when it was in Ca. Joined in 2003. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shifty Jack, SASS #65353 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: I've not. But I was really conflicted about this aspect of CAS because of the fantasy aspcts. I labored over getting involved in it for months. (I'd feel more comfortable with reenactment.) I don't do what I'd call role playing. Pair of blue jeans, long sleeve shirt, engineer boots I already had. Added suspenders, cowboy hat and bandanna. I enjoy the old guns and have found a group of people that also enjoy them. Oldest son is well aware that we're doing CAS and shows no interest in the game. We have a second son that's the polar opposite. He had no interest in game playing of any form. He was always outside on some adventure. Hunting and fishing. Killed has first buck when he was about 12. Still hunts and traps. He's heading out to Montana to hunt elk with a bow in a week or so. Going to be out 20 days. He's a member of a shooting range that has a magnificent CAS range but he shows no interest in participating. If it's any consolation, I have wanted my dad to shoot with me since I got started in CAS and have never been able to get him interested enough to do it. Now I'm just hoping my son will join me someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said: Why do you think that is? I’ve been to EOT 5 years since it’s been in New Mexico. Never made it when it was in Ca. Joined in 2003. Well in 2004 they brought in somewhere around 25,000 paid attendees... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrel Cody Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Assassin said: Marketing needs to take place in order to get the word out. I wish someone important would read this statement and act on it. I recently did a "What is CAS/SASS" presentation to a small group and 3 out of about 20 had even heard of it(2 of those were related to or friends with a CAS shooter). I mentioned it at the office I worked at 4 years ago, actually put it on my company profile. A grand total of one person had heard of it and had about 5 more ask about it; that's 200+ employees and virtually all read company profiles. Current place I work I don't mention it often as it's FULL of LIBERALS and I just don't want to listen at it; 1500+ employees and I'm only there once a week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 There are a whole bunch more people living in SoCal then than there are around ABQ and that probably had a lot to do with the high attendance. SASS was in its glory/growth days and there was a lot more interest in the sport than there is now, IMO of course. At the Western Divisional last year there were 117 shooters and far less than that in interested visitors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 55 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: Well in 2004 they brought in somewhere around 25,000 paid attendees... Seriously? I can not even imagine. I attended 2013-2018 . Had a great time every year. I’d hate to think it’s gonna take CA. To get us back on the map......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 19 minutes ago, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said: Seriously? I can not even imagine. I attended 2013-2018 . Had a great time every year. I’d hate to think it’s gonna take CA. To get us back on the map......... There's more SASS members and clubs in CA. Than any where else in the country. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Assassin Posted August 30, 2019 Share Posted August 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, Ninety Caliber Al, 50218 said: Seriously? I can not even imagine. I attended 2013-2018 . Had a great time every year. I’d hate to think it’s gonna take CA. To get us back on the map......... Maybe not California, somewhere that is gun friendly and has a large population center. I attended EOT in Norco a couple times and it was incredible. Spectators, vendors, entertainers, celebrities, the place was crazy with people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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