The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Thanks to my local club last weekend I was able to shoot a unique round in the match, 455 Webley. The picture shows the 3 fired cartridges (45LC, 45 ACP, 455 Webley). 455 is shorter than ACP. Traditionally it was loaded with a 265g bullet at ~600fps. Being a period correct cartridge for SASS it would make for an interesting alternative to 45CS. Even less case volume/length could make loading lighter bullets quite easy. Components, while expensive are available from starline and MO bullet Co. A lever rifle that holds 10 45LCs would hold 13+ 455s. Either way it was fun to shoot. The revolver had no noticible difference in recoil compared to 45LC or ACP. It's 100+ year old sights were still dead on and I didn't miss...I still was slow but I didn't miss! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Cool you get to shoot yer piece. Wonder how the 455s would feed through a rifle... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 From my experience with a variety of Webley, the rim on the case is too thick to use in a 45 Colt chamber. Some SAA were chambered in 455 Webley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy B.SASS#26902 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 I just tried dropping a 455 Webley and the much shorter .450 Eley into a 45 colt Vaquero, Both chambered just fine but I'm not sure if there might not be head spacing problems due to the thinner rim on the Webley and Eley cases. Next time I get to the range I'm going to have to give them a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 All of my Webley's are shaved for .45ACP/.45 Autorim. Glad you found one in the unaltered caliber. I really think there should be a place for these pre-1900 design DA revolvers. I don't know what that place should be. Allowing them used as Main Match guns as long as they are cocked single action style is probably asking for too much, but some sort of a side match for them would be a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 1 hour ago, Willy B.SASS#26902 said: I just tried dropping a 455 Webley and the much shorter .450 Eley into a 45 colt Vaquero, Both chambered just fine but I'm not sure if there might not be head spacing problems due to the thinner rim on the Webley and Eley cases. Next time I get to the range I'm going to have to give them a try. I'm sorry, I had a senior moment and got it backwards. The 455 has a thinner rim thickness - not thicker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 Posted August 28, 2019 Author Share Posted August 28, 2019 One thing I found interesting was the Webley's ease of loading/unloading. The revolver is a top break like my Schofields, but the latch is much easier to manipulate. On reloading, the cam that cycles the extractor star on the Webley seemed to work better than the Schofield as well. I wonder how much the short 455 case vs 45LC has to do with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 May I ask what is the rim thickness of the .455 case? OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Foot Johnson Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Da Web sez .039". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Old home video I shot with cell phone to show a buddy. Our son has all three of the old Webleys right now even though two are mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 28, 2019 Share Posted August 28, 2019 Hey, a d texaz, I gotta ask, why does my post make you sad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willy B.SASS#26902 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I'd love to be able to shoot my webleys in a match, This picture is a few years old and a few more have joined the herd, I guess I like the darn things because of the history involved with them. the one on the lower right is an 1892 army that was sold in Bombay in 1893 it's chambered in .476 Webley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 It's Single Action Shooting Society. But double action revolvers date back into the early development revolvers and were prominent on the western frontier. Custer was known to own several Webley double action revolvers and likely had one it the last stand. I'm not for another category but maybe let double action guys shoot in Pike category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Hmmmm... I'm thinking SASS stands for something... I don't recall "double" being part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 If the Webley is shot 'single-action'. "What difference, does it make?" Cool piece of gun history......... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Perhaps some of you should start a new org??? Something like...the "If I've got a picture of it, it's good to use". The acronym would suck...IIGAPOI...but what the hell. Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 PLUS ONE too Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 While the idea of using a pre-1900 DA revolver, if cocked single action style, as a main match gun has some merit, I don't think doing so would really be in the spirit of the game. That being said, I see no reason why some sort of a side match can't be built around them. Many of the side matches are built around other guns of the era that are not used in the main match, so why not these? What form could said side match take? Only the limits of the imagination are in the way. This does not require a new category, or a rules change, or any other drastic modification of our game. It's just another side match that folks are free to participate in or ignore as they see fit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Hey H. K., Don't look now. We tried that side match idea some years back. It was called "Wild Bunch" Then SASS got hold of it and eliminated ALL the fun stuff. Sheesh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Just now, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Hey H. K., Don't look now. We tried that side match idea some years back. It was called "Wild Bunch" Then SASS got hold of it and eliminated ALL the fun stuff. Sheesh. EGGGGGZACKLY!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 I'm in no way suggesting double actions be used in any SASS single action categories. Just a thought of letting them shoot agains Pike. Gateway cowboys (South of St. Louis) has 4 "Indiana Jones" matches in their schedule that allow double action handguns. Looks like the rules are more like Wild Bunch. http://www.cowboygass.net/events.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Cool guns but not single action. At some of our local matches WB or Pike category is allowed, stoked shotguns and such. If you want to stoke your 97 as a Cowboy you have to do it on the clock and get a P. When the WB folks have their rare WB match CAS participants aren’t allowed. So let’s water down CAS even more by allowing DA’s to be used as single actions and how long before we’ll have matches with CAS, Pike/WB and Double Action category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 25 minutes ago, Colorado Coffinmaker said: Hey H. K., Don't look now. We tried that side match idea some years back. It was called "Wild Bunch" Then SASS got hold of it and eliminated ALL the fun stuff. Sheesh. Oh, I know that. I remember folks using Weblys, Lugers, 1917's and all sorts of other interesting pre-1918 pistols. That was a lot of fun! But, there's the difference, I said pre-1900. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 26 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: I'm in no way suggesting double actions be used in any SASS single action categories. Just a thought of letting them shoot agains Pike. Gateway cowboys (South of St. Louis) has 4 "Indiana Jones" matches in their schedule that allow double action handguns. Looks like the rules are more like Wild Bunch. http://www.cowboygass.net/events.html What the hell does a fish have to do with CAS???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramblin Gambler Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 The size is interesting. For some reason I always thought the webley rounds were big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 hour ago, Yul Lose said: Cool guns but not single action. At some of our local matches WB or Pike category is allowed, stoked shotguns and such. If you want to stoke your 97 as a Cowboy you have to do it on the clock and get a P. When the WB folks have their rare WB match CAS participants aren’t allowed. So let’s water down CAS even more by allowing DA’s to be used as single actions and how long before we’ll have matches with CAS, Pike/WB and Double Action category. No 'P' on SG stoke'n if it is in the stage write-up, or general club policy-as with Cajon Cowboys. OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: No 'P' on SG stoke'n if it is in the stage write-up, or general club policy-as with Cajon Cowboys. OLG Very true. In the about 11 years I've been doing this, I've only seen it written into one stage, and I've only been to 1 club where it was a general policy. This is actually a rule change I would advocate: always allow the stoking of 97's and 87's on the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 1 minute ago, H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 said: Very true. In the about 11 years I've been doing this, I've only seen it written into one stage, and I've only been to 1 club where it was a general policy. This is actually a rule change I would advocate: always allow the stoking of 97's and 87's on the clock. Not to uncommon out here........ It is fun I don't worry about the 'clock'-They time me with a Sundial......... OLG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 35 minutes ago, Ramblin Gambler said: The size is interesting. For some reason I always thought the webley rounds were big. Bullet wise they are quite big. 262g vs your 250/255g in standard 45LC. Traditional 455 rounds are very pointy cones vs. flatter type for 45LC. 455 also had at the time the "manstopper" round, which was a hunk of lead with a conical cone cut out of it very much like a hollow point. For SASS use a 455 Webley case with one of the popular LW 45's used in CS would be an even shorter package than CS. Less case capacity depending on powder used could be a benefit. If SASS lever guns could be made to run 455s the short case would make for higher capacity without additional length. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 10 minutes ago, The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 said: Bullet wise they are quite big. 262g vs your 250/255g in standard 45LC. Traditional 455 rounds are very pointy cones vs. flatter type for 45LC. 455 also had at the time the "manstopper" round, which was a hunk of lead with a conical cone cut out of it very much like a hollow point. For SASS use a 455 Webley case with one of the popular LW 45's used in CS would be an even shorter package than CS. Less case capacity depending on powder used could be a benefit. If SASS lever guns could be made to run 455s the short case would make for higher capacity without additional length. How would you deal with the rim being .020 thinner? It would be like having .020 extra headspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Someone interested in playing with this cartridge, Grafs has some on sale! https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/77584 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oddnews SASS# 24779 Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said: EGGGGGZACKLY!!!!! Something weird has happened to the universe. This is like the 5th time in a row I've agreed with Phantom! Of course period double actions and things other than 1911s should be allowed in Wild Bunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Aggie Rifleman, SASS#55213 Posted August 29, 2019 Author Share Posted August 29, 2019 8 minutes ago, Warden Callaway said: Someone interested in playing with this cartridge, Grafs has some on sale! https://www.grafs.com/catalog/product/productId/77584 Interesting. Comes out to $66 for 100. Buying the components is ~$150 for 100 but that includes 300 additional bullets for reloading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yul Lose Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 40 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said: No 'P' on SG stoke'n if it is in the stage write-up, or general club policy-as with Cajon Cowboys. OLG May not be at Cajon but it is other places and trying to get stage writers to write it in the stages is nearly impossible. Pala used to allow it on the clock without a P but they aren’t around anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warden Callaway Posted August 29, 2019 Share Posted August 29, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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