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Texas Jack Daniels

Target Shape - What is optimal?

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I've thought about stencils and painting an image of cowboys and other stuff on our targets for ambiance. It would last for a few shooters.

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16 minutes ago, Assassin said:

I've thought about stencils and painting an image of cowboys and other stuff on our targets for ambiance. It would last for a few shooters.

Waste of time and effort.

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Seen some similar things done.  The stencils have to be quick and easy.  Two layers, 3 tops and not have alignment matter much.

 

Some clubs around here have a few to make targets look like painted easter eggs or christmas ornaments.

 

Some stylized cowboy hat stencils or "mad dog" faces might be interesting and quick to put on at the beginning of the day.

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1 hour ago, Tennessee williams said:

   As far as the OP goes. Square targets of respectable size are obviously "optimal". 

   

Obviously? I don't think so. Maybe large rectangles; they kinda approximate the torso area of a bad guy anyway.

16/18x24ish, better than square. Unless they're Phantom's favorite 36" Squares. lol

NO waste of time painting them; only gonna shoot it off anyway. Right? ;) 

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4 minutes ago, Fast Enuff said:

Seen some similar things done.  The stencils have to be quick and easy.  Two layers, 3 tops and not have alignment matter much.

 

Some clubs around here have a few to make targets look like painted easter eggs or christmas ornaments.

 

Some stylized cowboy hat stencils or "mad dog" faces might be interesting and quick to put on at the beginning of the day.

Might would make for a good experiment to try. I'd think the general shape would last a match but never tried it. I know a painted 4" dot in the center of a cowboy target will last for a very long time. 

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There are many different shape cowboys.   The cowboys in the pictures in this thread have a lot of center mass.  There are other cowboys that have puffed out skinny arms and legs and a small head and hat.   If the center mass is approximately seven to ten inches or more,  and beyond that 50 percent of the remaining area is steel and 50 percent is air, there builds luck or chance into the game for the bulk of our shooters.   Take the no. of shooters that will slow down and shoot the center mass out of the equation, small no., and what you have left is those affected by the luck of the draw, some hit steel and some hit air.  Please don’t respond that you are so good you take foot shots. Sorry, someone already stole that line.   We all know we should slow down and shoot the center mass but the reality is most of do not, example EOT.   I am now practicing with smaller targets and a little more distance.  It will make me better able to adjust to the situation in front of me.  I, also do not like to many targets that build an additional layer of luck or chance in the game.  But I will shoot whatever is in front of me, hopefully.

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10 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:
10 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Obviously? I don't think so. 

 

Sorry. I should have said obvious to most people.:ph34r:

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24 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Obviously? I don't think so. Maybe large rectangles; they kinda approximate the torso area of a bad guy anyway.

16/18x24ish, better than square. Unless they're Phantom's favorite 36" Squares. lol

NO waste of time painting them; only gonna shoot it off anyway. Right? ;) 

I know yer kidding, but believe it or not, I hate huge close targets.

 

:o

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3 hours ago, Kirk James said:

There are many different shape cowboys.   The cowboys in the pictures in this thread have a lot of center mass.  There are other cowboys that have puffed out skinny arms and legs and a small head and hat.   If the center mass is approximately seven to ten inches or more,  and beyond that 50 percent of the remaining area is steel and 50 percent is air, there builds luck or chance into the game for the bulk of our shooters.   Take the no. of shooters that will slow down and shoot the center mass out of the equation, small no., and what you have left is those affected by the luck of the draw, some hit steel and some hit air.  Please don’t respond that you are so good you take foot shots. Sorry, someone already stole that line.   We all know we should slow down and shoot the center mass but the reality is most of do not, example EOT.   I am now practicing with smaller targets and a little more distance.  It will make me better able to adjust to the situation in front of me.  I, also do not like to many targets that build an additional layer of luck or chance in the game.  But I will shoot whatever is in front of me, hopefully.

Therefore, we might as well use squares for center of mass rather than waste steel on hat brims and bowed legs considering no one aims at the hat brim or legs. Takes the luck factor out of the equation. 

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On 8/27/2019 at 6:35 PM, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

I kinda think of it this way: if you turn a 16" square and turn it 45 degrees into a diamond, you actually have MORE effective area as when shooting (especially revolvers) we tend to shoot high or low and when sweeping we tending to shoot left or right and not in the corners of the "square".

Whatcha think? 


Watching 100 and 200 yard long range from directly behind shooters using a good spotting scope most of the misses on diamonds tend to be through where the corners of the same size square would be. The eye does not like diamonds.
 

On 8/28/2019 at 8:57 AM, Assassin said:

The fancy shapes are very nice and pretty to view. From the perspective of a stage writer, target maker, buyer of steel, and target carrier, I prefer squares, rectangles, and diamonds. It takes twice as much time to cut shapes and you lose 25% or more material vs. plain old squares. Circles aren't bad but there's still lost material. The size of a man's chest is roughly 16 x 16. We are shooting bad guys, right. For those that don't cut, carry, and set up targets its easy to say let's have all those cool shapes. They also stack neatly back into storage. And, I've carried my share of targets.

 

And, assuming everyone has to shoot the same targets and scenarios. Yes they do. However, what's a little difficult for a really good shooter becomes very difficult for a not so good shooter.

Those cute little buzzards or chickens may be the reason folks don't come back to your match.

 

Full size IPSC silhouette is 18" wide by 30" high (6" or so of the height is neck/head), that's about right for an average adult American male. We use one for our largest 200 yard long range target.

 

22 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Looks like it...ugh!

 

Now, now. I'm not fond of a lot of stand and deliver but our club does run them now and then for those that do like them. You have to throw everyone a bone now and then. Those targets are at my club.

 

10 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

First, the argument that "Everyone is shooting the same match" is a useless argument in this game. We want the same level of entertainment across the whole spectrum of SASS shooters. So by definition, having postage stamp size cowboy targets at 100 yards is all good...after all, we'd ALL be shooting the same targets.

 

 

Our smallest target for 100 yard long range is an 8" circle. The smallest at 200 yards is a standing cowboy approx. 15" x 9". The long range guys don't complain about them though since they're worth 5 points and long range is more about marksmanship.

 

On 8/27/2019 at 2:59 PM, Branchwater Jack SASS #88854 said:

You'd be surprised on how many folks find reason to let their displeasure known to you as a match official when you hang a 16 inch round target...because they're 'too small'.


I've heard a few of them. The only targets we have I don't like are the old cowboys with holes under the arms. But then I'm also the weirdo that would like to see the little 15" high cowboys at 25 yards for rifle sometime just for the challenge.

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3 minutes ago, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:


Watching 100 and 200 yard long range from directly behind shooters using a good spotting scope most of the misses on diamonds tend to be through where the corners of the same size square would be. The eye does not like diamonds.
 

 

Full size IPSC silhouette is 18" wide by 30" high (6" or so of the height is neck/head), that's about right for an average adult American male. We use one for our largest 200 yard long range target.

 

 

Now, now. I'm not fond of a lot of stand and deliver but our club does run them now and then for those that do like them. You have to throw everyone a bone now and then. Those targets are at my club.

 

 

Our smallest target for 100 yard long range is an 8" circle. The smallest at 200 yards is a standing cowboy approx. 15" x 9". The long range guys don't complain about them though since they're worth 5 points and long range is more about marksmanship.

 


I've heard a few of them. The only targets we have I don't like are the old cowboys with holes under the arms. But then I'm also the weirdo that would like to see the little 15" high cowboys at 25 yards for rifle sometime just for the challenge.

Who in the hell is talking about a Long Range...a Side Match...????

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Who in the hell is talking about a Long Range...a Side Match...????

 

You're the one that brought up postage stamps at 100 yards.

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Just now, Ron "Ironhead" Smith said:

 

You're the one that brought up postage stamps at 100 yards.

In reference to a specific argument.

 

Oy!

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11 hours ago, Assassin said:

They don't have run, they can walk. I have noticed they are in better shape after a few years of shooting CAS. Probably peer pressure and the desire to get their time down. 

Considering there's a timer involved, it is a competition, and those in the best shape prevail. 

 

EXACTLY the attitude that influences some shooters to give it up!! Because I can’t run, I don’t merit a chance to be competitive?? Because I don’t fit your image of what a competitive shooter should be, I have to accept that I won’t have an opportunity to compete? 

 

I can recall a time, not so long ago, when I could expect to shoot an entire match with the disadvantage of having to shoot EVERY stage in a manner that was backward to me because I’m left handed. It didn’t always happen. I was pleasantly surprised when there were neutral stages or even a stage that favored a lefty.  I was lucky to have two other southpaws that I traveled with and we began to point out that inequality. Thankfully, a lot of clubs, match directors, and stage writers listened to us and to other folks like us.

 

 I don’t mind stages with movement, even a LOT of movement! I can no longer move quickly and likely will never again be able to, so even three or four steps can cost as much as TEN seconds.  This doesn’t make me “Out of shape”!  I can still walk several miles,( not very fast) and I can lift and carry well over a hundred pounds! There are others that have similar problems.  I can often shoot a stage where I don’t have to take more than a step in twenty seconds or less if I’m on my game.

 

Please explain to the rest of us why there shouldn’t be at least ONE S&D stage in a match featuring five or six stages?  Two or three in a ten or twelve stage major match??  It certainly won’t hurt the more mobile, “in shape” shooters and JUST MIGHT make the game a little more pleasant and a lot more competitive for our disabled pards.

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Stand and deliver stages are boring... In my opinion. 

 

Having to take a few steps between shooting positions shouldn't tax any participant that is in this game to be competitive.

 

If you are not in the game to be competitive, than take your time from position to position... Big deal.

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6 minutes ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

EXACTLY the attitude that influences some shooters to give it up!! Because I can’t run, I don’t merit a chance to be competitive?? Because I don’t fit your image of what a competitive shooter should be, I have to accept that I won’t have an opportunity to compete? 

 

I can recall a time, not so long ago, when I could expect to shoot an entire match with the disadvantage of having to shoot EVERY stage in a manner that was backward to me because I’m left handed. It didn’t always happen. I was pleasantly surprised when there were neutral stages or even a stage that favored a lefty.  I was lucky to have two other southpaws that I traveled with and we began to point out that inequality. Thankfully, a lot of clubs, match directors, and stage writers listened to us and to other folks like us.

 

 I don’t mind stages with movement, even a LOT of movement! I can no longer move quickly and likely will never again be able to, so even three or four steps can cost as much as TEN seconds.  This doesn’t make me “Out of shape”!  I can still walk several miles,( not very fast) and I can lift and carry well over a hundred pounds! There are others that have similar problems.  I can often shoot a stage where I don’t have to take more than a step in twenty seconds or less if I’m on my game.

 

Please explain to the rest of us why there shouldn’t be at least ONE S&D stage in a match featuring five or six stages?  Two or three in a ten or twelve stage major match??  It certainly won’t hurt the more mobile, “in shape” shooters and JUST MIGHT make the game a little more pleasant and a lot more competitive for our disabled pards.

That's why we have so many categories and it's called "action" shooting. My old friend (RIP) Pegleg Pete had one real leg and a wooden leg. He didn't want any special treatment or help, he despised S&D stages. Wrangler Ron, one of our most senior shooters, I think he's 86 now, once told me he'd rather run a marathon than stand in one place and shoot. It could be a regional thing. I believe our ranges are bigger out west and we have more open spaces. Very few clubs, if any out here have any S&D stages.

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Stand and deliver stages are boring... In my opinion. 

 

Having to take a few steps between shooting positions shouldn't tax any participant that is in this game to be competitive.

 

If you are not in the game to be competitive, than take your time from position to position... Big deal.

 

Up until recently, I WAS in this game to be competitive!  As I said, if I’m on my game and can shoot without taking more than a step, I can still shoot a 10-10-4 in around twenty seconds.  You’re telling me that because of a disability that I can’t hope to ever shoot a competitive stage ‘cause you’re so easily bored that you can’t be bothered with shooting ONE stand and deliver stage a day??

 

OY!!

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33 minutes ago, Assassin said:

That's why we have so many categories and it's called "action" shooting. My old friend (RIP) Pegleg Pete had one real leg and a wooden leg. He didn't want any special treatment or help, he despised S&D stages. Wrangler Ron, one of our most senior shooters, I think he's 86 now, once told me he'd rather run a marathon than stand in one place and shoot. It could be a regional thing. I believe our ranges are bigger out west and we have more open spaces. Very few clubs, if any out here have any S&D stages.

 

I shot down at Tombstone a couple of years ago. Even they had a stage where the most I had to do was pivot on one foot to shoot the entire stage!!

 

You’re telling us that if I want to shoot, say, Frontier Cartridge, that all I can expect is to do is finish somewhere at the back of the pack because you don’t think a S&D stage has any place in a match and that in your enlightened opinion, I’m just “out of shape”! It isn’t likely that I’d win the category, but I might win that one stage.

 

I haven’t REALLY cared about winning my category, whatever category I’m shooting, in a couple of years, but even at that, having a chance to be up with the leaders on a couple of stages isn’t too much to ask for. Or is it??

 

It isn’t preferential treatment!  NOBODY is handicapped because there is no movement on a stage. If the other four or five stages have  a little or a lot of movement, you get no complaint!

 

 I shot a state match a few years ago where EVERY stage that had movement moved left to right and all of the scenarios shot from left to right.  When I pointed it out to the Match Director, he was stunned. But even that match had a couple of S&D stages!!

 

One of my home clubs has fifteen separate shooting bays and some of them are fifteen yards wide or more! Any of the bays is capable of supporting extended movement, but there is usually at least one stand and deliver stage at every match.

 

It kinda’ seems a little elitist to me to dismiss someone as just “not in shape” and relegate them “also participated” in a game that you’re claiming is an “entertainment” business or activity!!! I’d be willing to bet you’ll still be more than happy to accept my entry fee!!

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7 hours ago, Assassin said:

Therefore, we might as well use squares for center of mass rather than waste steel on hat brims and bowed legs considering no one aims at the hat brim or legs. Takes the luck factor out of the equation. 

Ever have an Edger on a 16" square? That was luck my friend. ;)

Shoot yer squares, run yer track meets and have fun.

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9 hours ago, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

Up until recently, I WAS in this game to be competitive!  As I said, if I’m on my game and can shoot without taking more than a step, I can still shoot a 10-10-4 in around twenty seconds.  You’re telling me that because of a disability that I can’t hope to ever shoot a competitive stage ‘cause you’re so easily bored that you can’t be bothered with shooting ONE stand and deliver stage a day??

 

OY!!

Dang, you sure xxx a lot.

 

I don't care what you like regarding stage design. You can have your preferences just like I have mine.

 

You can want those S&D stages so you can show people that you still can run your guns...I couldn't care less!

 

But the simple fact still remains that you are no longer competitive if all you can do is perform on a S&D stage for SASS competitions as a whole requires movement.

 

So...Oy!

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On 8/27/2019 at 1:04 PM, Texas Jack Daniels said:

When I first started this game 25 years ago I thought targets that had shapes were cool, Buffalos, card suites, bears, cowboys, buzzards, steer heads.  They added to the atmosphere of the stage.  I cut up a lot of steel in my yard.

 

Now as we have evolved (devolved?) I am more worried about customer satisfaction and helping others. 

 

I have come the conclusion that square target are the most hit friendly. Sweeping left or right if the novice shooter shoots high or low there is still steel they hit.  (And I see a lot of low shots).  If it is a circle or a diamond I see more misses and fewer happy shooters.  At this point I tend to think a 2 ft. square is the most optimal "hit friendly" target.  Tombstones are pretty good too.  Stars not so much. 

 

What are your thoughts on targets size and shape and placement to help more people have a good time? 

 

And "car hoods at 5 yards" is not a fair reply.  

 

thank you. 

TJD 

Well did you know this thread would turn out this way?

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11 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Dang, you sure cry a lot.

 

I don't care what you like regarding stage design. You can have your preferences just like I have mine.

 

You can want those S&D stages so you can show people that you still can run your guns...I couldn't care less!

 

But the simple fact still remains that you are no longer competitive if all you can do is perform on a S&D stage for SASS competitions as a whole requires movement.

 

So...Oy!

 

I'm not crying!  That you would make that supposition is offensive and indicates that you REALLY don't care what anyone but yourself thinks!!  I'm good with that!  At least you admit it.

 

As to whether or not I'm still competitive, you don't have clue!!  Even in the last couple of years, where I've only been able to shoot a few times because of medical issues, I've managed to place in the category I shot in more often than not! So it's not about that!!  You say that it's all about the experience and doing well for the rank and file. Giving the new shooter a positive take on our game and a feeling that they've done well.  Then out of the other side of your mouth you openly admit that for some participants, "I couldn't care less!" ??  That's your vision of entertainment.  I get it!!!

 

BUT!!!  Having been through this little episode has given me a broader perspective on the participants and participation in general!!  I'm still happy to shoot ANY stage or scenario!  You won't hear me complain!!  As I recover again and build up my stamina and freshen up my skills, it'll be good to just get out and shoot again!  I'm NOT complaining here!!  I'm merely giving my observation, which is by the way, at least as valuable as yours and obtained from recent experience or experiences that I hope nobody, EVEN YOU, ever has to encounter!!

 

We aren't about to convince each other that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I never expected to!!  What I've offered can be taken or left at your pleasure!  How or whether you or anyone else makes use of it is of no real concern to me.  It NEEDED to be said!!   

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16 hours ago, Assassin said:

I've thought about stencils and painting an image of cowboys and other stuff on our targets for ambiance. It would last for a few shooters.

 

The stencils would last all day if I were shooting at them.  They'd likely be there until the paint faded.

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Just now, Blackwater 53393 said:

 

I'm not crying!  That you would make that supposition is offensive and indicates that you REALLY don't care what anyone but yourself thinks!!  I'm good with that!  At least you admit it.

 

As to whether or not I'm still competitive, you don't have clue!!  Even in the last couple of years, where I've only been able to shoot a few times because of medical issues, I've managed to place in the category I shot in more often than not! So it's not about that!!  You say that it's all about the experience and doing well for the rank and file. Giving the new shooter a positive take on our game and a feeling that they've done well.  Then out of the other side of your mouth you openly admit that for some participants, "I couldn't care less!" ??  That's your vision of entertainment.  I get it!!!

 

BUT!!!  Having been through this little episode has given me a broader perspective on the participants and participation in general!!  I'm still happy to shoot ANY stage or scenario!  You won't hear me complain!!  As I recover again and build up my stamina and freshen up my skills, it'll be good to just get out and shoot again!  I'm NOT complaining here!!  I'm merely giving my observation, which is by the way, at least as valuable as yours and obtained from recent experience or experiences that I hope nobody, EVEN YOU, ever has to encounter!!

 

We aren't about to convince each other that one of us is right and the other is wrong. I never expected to!!  What I've offered can be taken or left at your pleasure!  How or whether you or anyone else makes use of it is of no real concern to me.  It NEEDED to be said!!   

What a crock of bull.

 

First, I edited it the "cry" word 45 mins before your post...

 

Secondly, if you'd care to actually try and comprehend my comments, I said I couldn't care less if you like S&D stages so that you can still show your are fast with your guns. Had nothing to do with how if feel about anyone! God...shm...

 

And you say I don't care about what anyone but myself thinks??? Just because I have my preferences??? Please... Quite whining and debate your position!

 

You think I'm trying to convince others to eliminate S&D stages... That why you use words such as "convince". What a pathetic Straw Man you've paid out there!  

 

Phantom

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Let's make things interesting and use snake shaped targets . . . .

 

 

Snake.PNG

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

What a crock of bull.

 

First, I edited it the "cry" word 45 mins before your post...

 

Secondly, if you'd care to actually try and comprehend my comments, I said I couldn't care less if you like S&D stages so that you can still show your are fast with your guns. Had nothing to do with how if feel about anyone! God...shm...

 

And you say I don't care about what anyone but myself thinks??? Just because I have my preferences??? Please... Quite whining and debate your position!

 

You think I'm trying to convince others to eliminate S&D stages... That why you use words such as "convince". What a pathetic Straw Man you've paid out there!  

 

Phantom

 

Again!!  Your opinion!!  I'm NOT here to "debate" with you! 

 

The quote as you originally posted it is no less valid just because you changed it.  In the middle of composing the reply, I had to take an important call and it took a while to get off the phone.  MY BAD, I guess...

 

The word "convince" was used in reference to our, (your and my) interaction.  No other word works any better there. As to my comprehending your point of view??  Like I said "I get it!" and I'm good with it!  I didn't even say that I LIKE stand and deliver stages!!  Just offered an observation pertaining to the "entertainment" value from a different point of view!!  One that I've recently become aware of!! 

 

I'm not offering a "straw man"!  As I said!!  IT NEEDED TO BE SAID!!  I've said it.....  Carry on!

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19 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Let's make things interesting and use snake shaped targets . . . .

 

 

Snake.PNG

 

We could make some red, some blue.  Half could face the opposite direction for left handed shooters. :P

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17 hours ago, Hells Comin said:

3 blind mice and for some reason they always seem to be spotting for someone else!

Yep, the spotted for me once... 10 misses on the pistol targets... said they couldn't see hits on the targets.  and then once they only gave one hit out of five shots... said they could only see ONE lead splatter.  Well DUH!  At five yards all five shots hit the same spot!  (Yes, I actually aim...);)

17 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Waste of time and effort.

Not necessarily... Depends on who's doing the painting... 

17 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Let's make things interesting and use snake shaped targets . . . .

 

 

Snake.PNGAgain...

There... fixed that for ya.  Yes, I have seen them used.  Been many, many years... happily so!

12 hours ago, Assassin said:

Therefore, we might as well use squares for center of mass rather than waste steel on hat brims and bowed legs considering no one aims at the hat brim or legs. Takes the luck factor out of the equation. 

Speak for yourself.    And, ain't NO luck to it.  It's a matter of degree... let's assume shooters A & B, are both aiming for the center of mass, (why wouldn't they?), yet shooter A misses and shooter B hit the cowboy on the elbow.  Where was the luck?  Shooter B simply had a little better follow-thru whereas Shooter A's timing was further off, between recognizing the sight picture and pulling the trigger.  You can call that luck... but, that is not luck... that is the difference in skill levels.

 

And, Phantom, FWIW, for "some" shooters, still on the upswing of gaining experience and skills, the need for speed equates to a equal element of luck that they HOT OR MISS any target... regardless of shape, 

 

When you've acquired the skill the to shoot a string of targets based not so much on sight picture but an equal element of timing barrel movement and trigger pull, which IMO is the skill-set needed to run in the sub or low teens, missing or hitting an edge is not a matter of luck, it's a matter of timing.    Very similar IMO to the BP shooter who's shooting at targets thru smoke, not based on what he(she) see's, but rather how well they've mentally committed the stage setup to memory.  I've actually shot a few clean stages where I'm shooting into the sun, no breeze, after the 1st two shots, none of the targets can been seen, but I've put the bullet on the target.  You might call that luck, (I might also), but I have done it regularly with shotgun targets,   Where with experience I know just how far to move the barrel to have that KD go down, whether I can see it or not.

 

Outta here, work calls.

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54 minutes ago, Marshal Hangtree said:

Let's make things interesting and use snake shaped targets . . . .

 

 

Snake.PNG

Put him behind the jail bar target I posted - only hits on the snake count. :lol:

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We used to shoot at chains hanging from a post. Targets covered with shirts, and counters would say I think I heard a hit.

The crappy targets we shot years ago were terrible. Yes, we had fun.

The original question was regarding optimum. Most bang for the buck is square, rectangle, and diamond shaped targets. If it's a new club starting out with limited resources use optimum. If the club has plenty of money and has the manpower make the fancy shapes. I'll shoot whatever targets are on the stage. Yes, targets can be too large or small. I'd like to see some mandates come from the WB regarding target size and distance.

We had to shoot ketchup packs many years ago, that was fun, messy, and attracted insects. We also shot cans of soda. I still have targets that are the shape/size of pots, bottles, heads, coffee pots, etc.

Shooters break out in hives when I bring those out for a side match.

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Our club used to shoot eggs and charcoal (for shotgun) and that was before my time. We do have a SG target hanging from chains. Never saw a miss or makeup on that one. Lol   I have to say I agree with Assassin (what?) on the basic shapes to acquire first. Large circles are ok too, but at least 16-18" and pretty close. A small and far target for special occasions or bonus (sorry Phantom) or whatever you want to call it is ok... once in a while.

But if your rifle targets are 8-10" and 25 yds out for most of your stages, yer gonna frustrate some folks and they won't be back.

I have shot at a club like that and it's ok... sometimes, but not as routine. If I wrote those into our stages and our set-up guys actually set em up that way,

I'd get a blanket party post-haste! :lol: So I won't. You're welcome CB

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Lets see,  this thread has covered just about everything except the sizes of the Portie Johns and everyones

preference of sizes, colors, paper, hand wipes/sanitizers, etc.....

 

After all, Texas Jack Daniels only wanted to know our preferences to OPTIMAL targets.

 

This lunch table discussion has taken us into dessert time.....:D

 

oh yea, I like my Portie Johns double wide, medium bluish color, with hand sanitizers)

I'm sure TJD appreciates my input on that..... :lol::lol:

 

..........Widder

 

 

 

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If its single ply -sometimes u will need a whole roll.

I'm thinking 3 or 4 ply.

How about paper towels? 

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