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Texas Jack Daniels

Target Shape - What is optimal?

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I think Phantom hates the cowboys that have the armholes.  Not the ones that are solid.  Phantom if you hate the solid ones could you explain your reasoning please?  

 

I have had a lot of different shooters on my posse.  5 yrs old to 95 years old.  wheelchairs, and even a blind guy.  His buddies helped him aim.  

 

A lot of clubs try to design stages that are neutral for left or right handed shooters these days.  

 

As far as stand and deliver is concerned as I have shot with many clubs across the USA not all clubs have the luxury of having stages with much/any movement and props.  Some clubs have to set up and tear down everything every month.  The first club I shot with had 1 stage in the corner of a corn field.   We had to set up in the morning and tear it down when we were done. 

 

When I die God will ask me what I did to help others, not how much money I left behind. 

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What a bunch of babies...I don't like Stand and Deliver stages...SO WHAT!!!!

 

Oh yeah...it's Social Media where everyone MUST tell the Emperors how nice their clothes look.

 

Oy...

 

Phantom

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1 hour ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Aw c'mon, you can't tell me it's not fun to watch a speed burner bust out a low-teens stage sometimes.

And when it's 95 degrees and 90 % humidity, it's nice to not have all sprint stages.

Variety... the key to fun and interesting matches. All S&D stages? yes, boring but sometimes ya just gotta.

We don't have to worry about 95 degrees nor high humidity. Therefore, let the games begin. We had a stage with three shoot positions last weekend and three shooters shot it in 12 and 13 seconds. Movement does little to add time to a stage.

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24 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

Unfortunately, we do.

I've spent a good bit of time out West... wanna go back.

Make em all movers and have fun.

Come on out, leave the humidity and S&D stages back yonder.

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As soon as I can (kid in school). Happy to leave the ick I walk out into every morning.

I like movement, it's just that my knees don't. Oh, I do it anyway... and pay for it later.

I also try not to beat up our Patrons, Cattle Barons and Elder Statesmen

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On 8/29/2019 at 8:46 AM, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

As soon as I can (kid in school). Happy to leave the ick I walk out into every morning.

I like movement, it's just that my knees don't. Oh, I do it anyway... and pay for it later.

I also try not to beat up our Patrons, Cattle Barons and Elder Statesmen

They don't have to run, they can walk. I have noticed they are in better shape after a few years of shooting CAS. Probably peer pressure and the desire to get their time down. 

Considering there's a timer involved, it is a competition, and those in the best shape prevail. 

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27 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

As soon as I can (kid in school). Happy to leave the ick I walk out into every morning.

I like movement, it's just that my knees don't. Oh, I do it anyway... and pay for it later.

I also try not to beat up our Patrons, Cattle Barons and Elder Statesmen

Movement (as you know) doesn't have to be great distances. 

Unless explicitly needed for stage design (moving downrange, moving around a facade, etc); I honestly believe three to five paces is plenty of distance between shooting positions.

Just enough to change perspective (if using the same target array), just enough to create a new sightline, (if using a different array)

Just enough to create times for transitions (draw or holster pistols, load or shuck shells from the shotgun, transition the rifle onto or off the shoulder). 

We don't abuse those with mobility issues ; but we don't insult them either by insinuating they are incapable (as they shoot at our primarily square targets).

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I'll be the odd  man out... the variety of target shapes adds to the ambiance of a match.  As long as everyone is shooting at the same targets it's still a fair match.  Blaming target shape for your misses is a cop-out.  The axiom of "if you're not missing you're shooting too slow, if you're missing you're shooting too fast" still applies, regardless of target shape or size.

 

Besides, in case you didn't know, it doesn't matter, targets, regardless of shape have the ability to duck!

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Oh, I give em movement. Like I've stated before, we shoot six stages and at least four or five have at least one move.

Usually two S&D, two with one move and two with two or three moves.

I'll mix in vertical as well as horizontal movement. Sometimes a step or two, sometimes 5, 6, 7...

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14 minutes ago, Griff said:

I'll be the odd  man out... the variety of target shapes adds to the ambiance of a match.  As long as everyone is shooting at the same targets it's still a fair match.  Blaming target shape for your misses is a cop-out.  The axiom of "if you're not missing you're shooting too slow, if you're missing you're shooting too fast" still applies, regardless of target shape or size.

 

Besides, in case you didn't know, it doesn't matter, targets, regardless of shape have the ability to duck!

First, the argument that "Everyone is shooting the same match" is a useless argument in this game. We want the same level of entertainment across the whole spectrum of SASS shooters. So by definition, having postage stamp size cowboy targets at 100 yards is all good...after all, we'd ALL be shooting the same targets.

 

Secondly, no one is blaming target shape for their misses...nice Straw Man there Griff ;)

 

But I will agree with your on your last statement :P

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18 hours ago, Texas Jack Daniels said:

That looks like a very nice set up.  And I see the tilt to minimize splatter.  

Howdy TJD, when using the Arntzen type of targets and stands (these appear to be) tilt is not needed as long as they free hang. You can still adjust in tilt with free hang if needed. We are lucky that our club has allowed us to get a nice selection off targets from the top three target makers when needed. A few years ago we added to or retrofitted all of our targets and stands to this style, since then I cannot remember the last time we had any splatter. Free Hang Matters:D

  It appears that Rob is retiring and Made Targets has bought the business. Rob said he still has some full sheets of steel for sale, for everything else see Made Targets . Good Luck

 

https://madetargets.com/cowboy-targets/

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

First, the argument that "Everyone is shooting the same match" is a useless argument in this game. We want the same level of entertainment across the whole spectrum of SASS shooters. So by definition, having postage stamp size cowboy targets at 100 yards is all good...after all, we'd ALL be shooting the same targets.

 

Secondly, no one is blaming target shape for their misses...nice Straw Man there Griff ;)

 

But I will agree with your on your last statement :P

Where did I say "...postage stamp size cowboy targets at 100 yards..."?  While we both understand the veracity of that argument, we both know the negative impact on participation that has.   And if  statements to the effect that oddly shaped targets increases misses isn't blaming target shape, what is it?    

 

It is simply my opinion that giving up the cowboy, etc shaped targets lessens the uniqueness that is "cowboy action" shooting.  Nor am I saying they ALL must be some unique shape.

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2 minutes ago, Griff said:

Where did I say "...postage stamp size cowboy targets at 100 yards..."?  While we both understand the veracity of that argument, we both know the negative impact on participation that has.   And if  statements to the effect that oddly shaped targets increases misses isn't blaming target shape, what is it?    

 

It is simply my opinion that giving up the cowboy, etc shaped targets lessens the uniqueness that is "cowboy action" shooting.

There were NO qualifiers with the statements "We're all shooting the same targets" arguments.

 

"Increased misses" is different then someone "Blaming" THEIR miss on an odd shaped target. In addition, I think most folks are not upset with their miss so much as they have a distaste for someone getting a "Hit" on some appendage of a odd shaped target (ie: luck).

 

And frankly don't you think "We" are unique enough that we don't need poorly designed and silly shapes that add complete LUCK into our competition???

 

Phantom

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I remember on year at a state championship match.  We were shooting these cowboy targets that were a 16x16 square plate with a cowboy hat wearing head cut out sitting on top of that square plate. Now, that hat on his head had a wide brim that was about 1" thick when you were viewing it and went outto the edge of that 16x16 steel.

 

This cowboy gets up and, in the course of shooting, shot one of the sides of his hat brim clear off the target!

 

We all laughed a bit, recovered the broken off piece of steel, and gave it to him as a parting gift.

 

But now, we have a problem....the target shape has changed for everyone else :rolleyes:

 

 

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Who said me hitting thhat cowboy in the foot was luck?  :P  Where did they think I was aiming after I started with "let's watch the cowboy dance!"

 

Oh yeah... :D

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14 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

And guess what? The "luck" factor IS the same for everyone!

I don't like luck stuff either but it is the same for everyone.

Of course it is...but the question is whether that's what we want in our competition.

 

If it is, great!

 

If not...

 

Phantom

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21 minutes ago, The Rainmaker, SASS #11631 said:

And guess what? The "luck" factor IS the same for everyone!

I don't like luck stuff either but it is the same for everyone.

 

Pretty much most if not all sports involve some luck at times.

 

GG ~:FlagAm:

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8 minutes ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said:

 

Pretty much most if not all sports involve some luck at times.

 

GG ~:FlagAm:

And usually...in those instances...you can say something to the affect that one makes their own luck...ie: Practice.

 

Don't think practice has much to do with yanking a shot and hitting the brim of a hat.

 

But...again...whatever.

 

;)

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TO me, luck ain't so much as hitting a small edge of a target.  After all, the shooter was pointing his

gun in that direction.

Luck is when you miss the target and all the spotters give you a clean......... :lol::lol::lol:

 

 

..........Widder

 

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27 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

TO me, luck ain't so much as hitting a small edge of a target.  After all, the shooter was pointing his

gun in that direction.

Luck is when you miss the target and all the spotters give you a clean......... :lol::lol::lol:

 

 

..........Widder

 

As they always say: Choose your spotters carefully. 

 

Wait...no...that's not it...oh whatever...

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1 hour ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

And usually...in those instances...you can say something to the affect that one makes their own luck...ie: Practice.

 

Don't think practice has much to do with yanking a shot and hitting the brim of a hat.

 

But...again...whatever.

 

;)

 

Of course there is skill involved - first and foremost - but yeah, sometimes something happens that was not intended, but works out for the competitor.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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51 minutes ago, Widder, SASS #59054 said:

TO me, luck ain't so much as hitting a small edge of a target.  After all, the shooter was pointing his

gun in that direction.

Luck is when you miss the target and all the spotters give you a clean......... :lol::lol::lol:

 

 

..........Widder

 

 True  :D

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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2 minutes ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said:

 

Of course there is skill involved - first and foremost - but yeah, sometimes something happens that was not intended, but works out for the competitor.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

Can you give me a comparable example?

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7 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Can you give me a comparable example?

 

 

When skill and luck come together....

 

Like you say - "whatever"...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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4 minutes ago, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said:

 

 

When skill and luck come together....

 

Like you say - "whatever"...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

Can view that video... Sorry.

 

It's basketball so...maybe that court has a spare hoop off to the side and an errant shot went in and the team was awarded 3 pts...???

 

Regardless, I'm not talking about when skill and luck collide. I'm taking about when pure luck is designed into the game.

 

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1 minute ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

Can view that video... Sorry.

It's basketball so...maybe that court has a spare hoop off to the side and an errant shot went in and the team was awarded 3 pts...???

 

 

 

There are other sports featured in this video -  good day.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Just now, Gunner Gatlin, SASS # 10274 said:

 

There are other sports featured in this video -  good day.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

I couldn't open... Again, sorry!

 

Good day... Kinda short... You mad??

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2 minutes ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

I couldn't open... Again, sorry!

 

Good day... Kinda short... You mad??

 

No sir....just gotta shut-down and get home...."cheers" - that better :D 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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2 hours ago, Phantom, SASS #54973 said:

As they always say: Choose your spotters carefully. 

 

Wait...no...that's not it...oh whatever...

3 blind mice and for some reason they always seem to be spotting for someone else!

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   As far as the OP goes. Square targets of respectable size are obviously "optimal". 

   As far as favorite goes, I guess you can ask 10 people and get 10 answers although most on this thread seems to favor square as I do.

   A compromise(this is something new to me that Im trying today only) would be to have a square or rectangle target and simply use a stencil to paint the holey underarmed cowboys, demented chickens, and puffy opossum on. 

    As far as my opinion on stage targets go, I cant say our targets challenge my accuracy (though I tend to have mine and someone else's share of misses). If I wanted that to be my primary challenge, I'd shoot bullseye. I am fine with both close and far targets as long as it stays cowboy action shooting and doesn't turn into cowboy long range target shooting. To me the appeal is a mixture of not only manipulating my guns in a quick manner, but also in finding the best transition, best way to run the stage, and the camaraderie of the people I shoot with. Even Widder.

 

 

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23 minutes ago, Hells Comin said:

3 blind mice and for some reason they always seem to be spotting for someone else!

No sh*#!!!

 

:lol:

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