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Stirring the Pot. Stage Writing


Doc Shapiro

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9 minutes ago, Krazy Kajun said:

To get back to the original subject.....two interesting and a little different stages that I ran across this weekend.

THANK YOU.   

 

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WOW that derailed. Reminds me of the trainwreck I had on the last stage where it was shooters choice on everything. I've enjoyed almost all the stages i've shot so far. The ones with a little more guidance I seem to do better on than the free for all stages. I'll chalk that up as my own inexperience though. My thoughts on all of the banter going on in here by the old hands and the new hands....... My first thought is i've done my job for 18+ years and when we get a new guy that's full of gusto we tend to blow off some of their concerns because it's just the way we do it and we've addressed it a BILLION times in the past with other newbs. Well Those fresh eyes tend to see things from a different perspective that we had already accepted as that's just how it is. The game/my job is always evolving and people come and go. some add to it and others take a part of it with them. There's no need for the sarcasm and childishness back and forth. "come for the shooting, stay for the people" Well there's a few places that I went for the shooting and never went back because of the people. I had thought the wire is turning into one of those places at times. Then I realized it tends to be the same people. Now I look forward to reading what they have to say so I can laugh at them and be thankful that I dont deal with them in person. The cowboy way goes a long way at turning new shooters into old shooters. j/s 

As for the original post. Variety is the spice of life. I like to take a pic of the stage directions when they are challenging or really fun for me so I can set them up at my local range when i'm plinking/practicing. I tend to get lost midstage when there's a lot of free thinking. but I'll take that over the same stand and deliver 6 times in a day. 

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26 minutes ago, Turkey Flats Jack said:

WOW that derailed. Reminds me of the trainwreck I had on the last stage where it was shooters choice on everything. I've enjoyed almost all the stages i've shot so far. The ones with a little more guidance I seem to do better on than the free for all stages. I'll chalk that up as my own inexperience though. My thoughts on all of the banter going on in here by the old hands and the new hands....... My first thought is i've done my job for 18+ years and when we get a new guy that's full of gusto we tend to blow off some of their concerns because it's just the way we do it and we've addressed it a BILLION times in the past with other newbs. Well Those fresh eyes tend to see things from a different perspective that we had already accepted as that's just how it is. The game/my job is always evolving and people come and go. some add to it and others take a part of it with them. There's no need for the sarcasm and childishness back and forth. "come for the shooting, stay for the people" Well there's a few places that I went for the shooting and never went back because of the people. I had thought the wire is turning into one of those places at times. Then I realized it tends to be the same people. Now I look forward to reading what they have to say so I can laugh at them and be thankful that I dont deal with them in person. The cowboy way goes a long way at turning new shooters into old shooters. j/s 

As for the original post. Variety is the spice of life. I like to take a pic of the stage directions when they are challenging or really fun for me so I can set them up at my local range when i'm plinking/practicing. I tend to get lost midstage when there's a lot of free thinking. but I'll take that over the same stand and deliver 6 times in a day. 

Funny how you laugh at them...

 

There's a difference between someone willing to ask questions that they know might be "Old" news for many, and someone that approaches the "Old" members as though they have never considered a question or solution.

 

Shall I say that I know who those folks are and I just laugh at their arrogance and lack of appreciation for those that have been in the game for a LONG time?????

 

And lastly, SASS folks ain't no different then any other group of folks. There are great people in EVERY game/sport. Sometimes SASS just gives some lousy folks an opportunity to manufacture a facade for themselves...and sooooooo many folks buy it!!

 

Now that's something to laugh about.

 

Phantom

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Yeah, sometimes we can get carried away, sorry.

You're lucky to have some great folks up that way; Sixgun Seamus is a great guy that knows his stuff.

As for stages, out of six I usually write one or two stand and deliver stages (no movement), two with one move and two with two or three moves.

I try to allow shooters choices on starting with different guns and direction of movement. Some have definite orders, a few I leave up to the shooter.

Variety is key, always the same gets boring. Yes, some are a little hair-brained but fun. And I always look at results to see which stages had high miss or procedural rates and won't use those the same way again. We post our stages on the website and leave em up so shooters can get a peak before we shoot and folks can see what we do. I like seeing clubs post stages so I can see what others are doing.

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Ain’t no doubt that the Spotters play an important part in this Game. They need to be diligent in their work, and realize that they can become tired, and should seek relief or be relieved when their concentration is dwindling.  Since they provide feedback to the T.O. upon which calls are made, they ought to be reasonably familiar with the rules of the game. The books do a good job defining the things that the Spotter should do. Benefit of the Doubt is a good thing as long as it is not over used. The old adage (certainly not anything from the rule books)  that if you don’t see a miss, then it is a hit, does not work at every range or stage. It has a great deal of merit, but is only pertinent on stages where a clean miss can be seen. Stages with vegetation behind the targets make it difficult to see a clean miss.

No doubt that Stage writing can have an effect upon the ability of Spotters to see all the targets depending upon prop placement. Buildings can often make it difficult for all Spotters to see the targets. Writers would do well to consider that. It is often possible to cut another opening in the prop to facilitate the Spotters view. Of course in the case where Spotter viewing is extremely difficult, Knock Down targets can really help. I like the occasional stage that allows the shooter to choose what order things are done or shot, but IMO, the particular area that the scenario is played out on needs to be considered. In a wide open area, Spotters should be able to keep up, and like has been mentioned, once a good shooters does it, virtually everyone will do it the same way. 

At the “End of the Day”, one fact remains true, All Spotters are Dirty, Rotten, Cheatin, Liars, every time I get a miss I tell them so!  :P

We are a self-regulating game. All of our functions are performed by all of us. Some of us are better at it than others. We should all strive to do our best, and continue to learn as we move along.  The major reason that the RO courses were set up was to improve in this area. I never failed to spend a little extra time in the RO Course instruction when it came to advising the Spotters on how to do their job effectively. Next shooter Please.

Snakebite

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I think there is value in new shooters' ideas. The problem I see sometimes is the attitude that comes with it.

 

Re "All Spotters are Dirty, Rotten, Cheatin, Liars," one day Snakebite's regular posse members surprised him by holding these after spotting for him. LOL!

 

0003802-ambutech-kiddie-alum-rigid-cane-marshmlo-tip-34in.jpg

 

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Here are the Dirty Buggers. They follow me around all over the country, and the change their appearance so that I don't spot them right off!

 

 

874989916_BlindSpoters.jpg.1352877510d217ea94e9361e06253600.jpg

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4 hours ago, Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 said:

 

Re "All Spotters are Dirty, Rotten, Cheatin, Liars," one day Snakebite's regular posse members surprised him by holding these after spotting for him. LOL!

 

0003802-ambutech-kiddie-alum-rigid-cane-marshmlo-tip-34in.jpg

 

 

Now that is the absolute best spotters stick i've ever seen!!! :D

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Hi Gents and Gentle Ladies,

I have been inactive for several years but want to get to shootin’ again! I was inactive for health problems, includin’

8 knee surgeries and 8 back procedures. I am now 72, but in much better health. Part of the problems was stage 

writin’! Even then they would want me to lay down in a casket, or lay on the floor. The writers made some concessions

like allowin’ me to start in a chair. However, some folks thought I wasn’t treatin’ them right, and bitchin’, so I dropped

out. I still can’t lay down, but I am doing much better! Is there any hope for me? Thanks for this topic!:)

Quote

 

 

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Well NS I guess that I just don't understand your post a well as I should. I haven't seen any stages even close that in well over 20 yrs. We always try to accommodate  folks as best we can, but at some point that is just not possible. If you are able to safely play the game, then great, if you are not, then unfortunately it is time to find something else. That's not meant to be mean spirited, it is just a fact of life. I'm 72, and also have some problems that I have to deal with. It gets harder every day, but I'll be damned if I will ask everyone to change the game or the stage for me. We had a guy that insisted that we write all the stages so that he could shoot them from his little scooter. We had a shooter that was so blind that he was simply unsafe with his Fire Arm handling. No body wanted to approach him about it, saying that it was the only thing he had left in life, so I was put on the spot to handle the situation. Nobody wants to be the Bad Guy. Bottom line is this. If you can play the game safely, with some amount of dispensation, then that is great. When it gets to the point that you can not, then unfortunately it is time to quit. We can not, should not, and will not allow anyone that is unsafe to participate. It's just has to be that way. I hope it works out for you.

 

Snakebite

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Never Sleeps, if you can walk and handle your firearms safely, there is hope for you.  Some clubs can even handle mobility aids but certainly not all.  Find a club and come on out to see what, if any, limitations you have.  Most clubs will try to accommodate a shooter with infirmities.  You won't know until you try.

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38 minutes ago, Snakebite said:

Well NS I guess that I just don't understand your post a well as I should. I haven't seen any stages even close that in well over 20 yrs. We always try to accommodate  folks as best we can, but at some point that is just not possible. If you are able to safely play the game, then great, if you are not, then unfortunately it is time to find something else. That's not meant to be mean spirited, it is just a fact of life. I'm 72, and also have some problems that I have to deal with. It gets harder every day, but I'll be damned if I will ask everyone to change the game or the stage for me. We had a guy that insisted that we write all the stages so that he could shoot them from his little scooter. We had a shooter that was so blind that he was simply unsafe with his Fire Arm handling. No body wanted to approach him about it, saying that it was the only thing he had left in life, so I was put on the spot to handle the situation. Nobody wants to be the Bad Guy. Bottom line is this. If you can play the game safely, with some amount of dispensation, then that is great. When it gets to the point that you can not, then unfortunately it is time to quit. We can not, should not, and will not allow anyone that is unsafe to participate. It's just has to be that way. I hope it works out for you.

 

Snakebite

Snakebite, I don’t believe you will find anywhere I said I can’t safely shoot! I said I couldn’t lay down or get on my knees,

that’s it! Thanks for the reply, pard!

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No, you did not, and neither did I. You ask if there was any hope for you.... I tried to give you a honest answer.  It is up to you and those around you to determine if you are safe. I've accommodated many folks in many ways. If they can not get up into the buckboard, then they can stand beside it, but I won't deprive the rest of the group by not using the Buckboard. Any club should be happy to do what they can to allow you to play the game. So, to answer your question as directly as I can, Yes.

 

Snakebite

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4 hours ago, Never Sleeps 13790 said:

Part of the problems was stage 

writin’! Even then they would want me to lay down in a casket, or lay on the floor. The writers made some concessions

like allowin’ me to start in a chair. However, some folks thought I wasn’t treatin’ them right, and bitchin’, so I dropped

out. 

I think most clubs will make every effort to assist and enable a person with physical limitations to shoot individual  stages.   We do that all the time. 

Fewer clubs are likely to be willing to modify how they write the stages to eliminate challenging features for everyone.   After all, at some point it has to remain an attractive sport.   

 

I would liken that to providing a step to enable a very short competitor to gain access to a chinning bar, but not lowering the bar such that there is no longer a competitive challenge for anyone.  It has to remain a viable sport that people find challenging and interesting.  

 

I would say that not being required to lay down in a coffin is a reasonable request on a particular stage, but eliminating the coffin for everybody would subtract something from the game.   Progressive reductions in the challenge or fun of stages themselves are likely to erode the sport to the point that nobody bothers to show up.  Then nobody wins.  

 

So don't be shy to ask for individual stage accommodations.  The response will be either a yes or no.  If you are told "no",  then do what you can do to have fun shooting, even if it changes your competitiveness.  You can still play and enjoy, as many do.  

 

But asking for stages to be written to reduce difficulty for everybody is probably not a reasonable request in this or any other competitive sport. 

 

 

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The only problem I have with it is the starting position. "Start at position of choice with your hands on your own butt". I think depending on the posse you should be able to start with your hands on the butt of your choice. 

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4 hours ago, Cowboy Junky said:

The only problem I have with it is the starting position. "Start at position of choice with your hands on your own butt". I think depending on the posse you should be able to start with your hands on the butt of your choice. 

I can think of a couple of people who’d have to take off their hat. :lol:

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I like the stage Doc. Gives the shooter a lot of choices.  Might try alternating on the 15 and 20 yard target for 6 rounds and 8 and 8 for 4 rounds with the rifle.  Shot the 8 and 8 again once each carefully with the pistols making sure there isn't double tap and then alternate the two four yard targets with the remaining 8 rounds.  I like stages that are flexible  and give choices.  How would the rest of you shoot the stage?

 

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Hi Kirk,

 

Depending upon target positions from the two shooting positions I might shoot an 8, 14, and 20 yard targets in a continuous Nevada sweep with the rifle and shoot the two 4 yard targets and other 8 yard target with another continuous Nevada sweep with the pistols.  You have to put one more pistol round on the 8 yard target with a pistol than your approach.  However, it might be simpler to think of shooting the stage with continuous Nevada sweeps instead of alternating rifle and pistols for a different number of rounds on different targets. I think your solution is likely to be faster but a little more complicated. 

 

Regards,

 

Photo Shooter

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