Jump to content
SASS Wire Forum
Sign in to follow this  
Croc Holiday

Buckling shotgun hulls??

Recommended Posts

Try  less powder. Here's a cut and paste of my favorites from another topic. If you're gonna try some Fiocchi hulls check out  Ballistic Products (BPI), that's where I get my short shell wads and other stuff. Hope this helps:)

 

"Right now I'm using Rem RXP12 with 1oz shot and Mec#34 (42gr Kik) cause I'm out of Pink wads. I prefer to use the individual shot bars. Good Luck:)

    Howdy Two-Bits,  I shoot a load similar to Noz with the Pink wad. Again as others have said the Win WAA 12R (CB 1138-12) is good for about 60-65gr and 1 1/8oz shot. I prefer to use a little less BP and have found several wads that fit all my needs. Besides the Win Pink wad there are several short shell wads from BPI that really work well."

1 1/8oz - 54-57gr ffg with BPI short wad #72SSW..........my favorite for big matches ;)
Short Shell #72SSW
1oz - 48-50gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #18.......another big match fav
Helix #18
7/8oz - 43-45gr ffg with Win Pink wad AA12SL (CB1100-12).......my local fav ;D
WAA12SSL
7/8oz - 45-47gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #21......works good with the new two piece AA hulls
Helix #21

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Jefro, SASS#69420 said:

1 1/8oz - 54-57gr ffg with BPI short wad #72SSW..........my favorite for big matches ;)
Short Shell #72SSW
1oz - 48-50gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #18.......another big match fav
Helix #18
7/8oz - 43-45gr ffg with Win Pink wad AA12SL (CB1100-12).......my local fav ;D
WAA12SSL
7/8oz - 45-47gr ffg with BPI Helix Driver #21......works good with the new two piece AA hulls
Helix #21

 

Are measurements by Weight or Volume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, Croc Holiday said:

Tried again tonight with 1 oz shot, the same 4.0 cc of BP and a little less enthusiasm when crimping.  It helped some but some still wanted to buckle but not nearly like the pic above.  I’ll see if I can get my hands on some Remington hulls this weekend and try those instead.  Thanks for all the input!!  I really appreciate the advice!

Back in the day shooting trap/skeet, AA was the shell of choice. When I started SASS, I collected AA's off the range and tried reloading with a MEC 650. It was a disaster! The AA is not the shell of yesteryear! Had your same problem with the new two piece hulls. The shell bases would get torn up in the resizer as well. Changed to STS and they are better than AA's ever were in my experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Quote

7/8oz - 43-45gr ffg with Win Pink wad AA12SL (CB1100-12).......my local fav ;D

Mine too, when I load BP.  (Except I manage to get 1 ounce of shot in there by slightly reducing powder to about 40 grains weight)

 

Quote

Are measurements by Weight or Volume?

 

And, if you are loading most brands of BP, you will find that weight and volume FOR BP are almost exactly the same, because the original BP measures were MADE for a volume mark to throw the weight in grains to be the same.   So don't worry.

 

Good luck, GJ 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 hours ago, Croc Holiday said:

Tried again tonight with 1 oz shot, the same 4.0 cc of BP and a little less enthusiasm when crimping.  It helped some but some still wanted to buckle but not nearly like the pic above.  I’ll see if I can get my hands on some Remington hulls this weekend and try those instead.  Thanks for all the input!!  I really appreciate the advice!

 

Try 3/4-7/8oz of shot.

 

OLG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Drop your powder charge to 3 1/2 cc of powder. You’ll still have plenty of smoke and flames. 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Sedalia Dave said:

Drop your powder charge to 3 1/2 cc of powder. You’ll still have plenty of smoke and flames. 

 

 

 

Or 3 even, which if I did my math right is about 54gr by volume; 50gr by volume is plenty in my opinion and I try and keep mine 48-52gr with 7/8oz of shot. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
45 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

 

Try 3/4-7/8oz of shot.

 

OLG

 

At 1 oz some weren't closing all the way (concave in the center of the crimp).  I chalked that up to hull not being full enough.  But I'm new and may be backwards on that.  I got enough to turn out good enough.  Not as pretty as I'd prefer but they're not dribbling shot everywhere.  If less shot will help them close better I'll set that up for the next bunch. 

 

Sad part...  I had almost 2 big ziplock bags full of Rem Gun Club hulls that I tossed when someone told me they were junk and the AA's were the way to go.  :angry:  Fact check lesson learned...  Ah well.  Hopefully the skeet area won't frown on the homeless cowboy dumpster diving for better hulls tomorrow haha. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Tyrel Cody said:

 

 

Or 3 even, which if I did my math right is about 54gr by volume; 50gr by volume is plenty in my opinion and I try and keep mine 48-52gr with 7/8oz of shot. 

 

I'd love to get away with less powder and lead.  Seeing some folks are using 3cc with 7/8 oz of shot makes me wonder if too full is part of my problem maybe.  I'm using someones proven load.  The only variable is the hull.  I'm not totally sure what they use.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Croc Holiday said:

 

I'd love to get away with less powder and lead.  Seeing some folks are using 3cc with 7/8 oz of shot makes me wonder if too full is part of my problem maybe.  I'm using someones proven load.  The only variable is the hull.  I'm not totally sure what they use.

 

I use Gold or Green STS Hulls. I tried several different wads to get to the right height for a good crimp.  Try and drop a bean(pinto) or pea(black eyed) or a similar sized piece of styrofoam in your wad BEFORE you add the shot and see if that helps. You can also get 14ga overshot cards to help with crimp issues.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
38 minutes ago, Croc Holiday said:

 

I'd love to get away with less powder and lead.  Seeing some folks are using 3cc with 7/8 oz of shot makes me wonder if too full is part of my problem maybe.  I'm using someones proven load.  The only variable is the hull.  I'm not totally sure what they use.

AA's work fine for bp, you just have to get the column the correct height.  I use 60grs of powder under a Claybuster 1138-12 red wad with 1 oz of shot with 100% success.

 

Don't over crimp by trying to stuff too much powder or shot into the hull.

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

At the ranges we shoot, you have a lot of leeway with powder volume, shot weight, hulls, and wads. To keep the crimp from collapsing into the shell if the shot column is too short, I do it backwards from Tyrel Cody - I keep a box of foam packing peanuts at hand and put a small piece on top of the shot.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Jailhouse Jim, SASS #13104 said:

I use 60grs of powder under a Claybuster 1138-12 red wad with 1 oz of shot...

 

 

 

That's exactly what I used last night (60 gr = roughly 4 cc).  None came out like the pic but some still had a slight buckle or a line that looked like it was on it's way to one.  I dunno... 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Croc Holiday said:

 

 

That's exactly what I used last night (60 gr = roughly 4 cc).  None came out like the pic but some still had a slight buckle or a line that looked like it was on it's way to one.  I dunno... 

 

Back it down to 55gns by weight.

OLG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

I'm using someones proven load.  The only variable is the hull

There are differences in hulls!   The Win AA hull is quite a bit smaller on it's internal volume than, say, a Federal or any European hull.  Fed and Euro hull have cylindrical hull walls.   Winchester and Remington have tapered hull walls (thicker down at the base than at the mouth).  Base wads are different between almost all hulls.  Volume varies, and in your case, volume matters.  

 

Loads that fill a Federal will over-fill a Winchester!  

 

Yes, as about 10 pards have offered up already, the OP has a blivet - too much stuff in your five pound bag (aka, Win AA hull).  The easy fix is reduce the amount of powder in the load.   You won't even notice stepping down about 10 grains of black powder.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Edited by Garrison Joe, SASS #60708

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Tyrel Cody said:

bean(pinto) or pea(black eyed) or a similar sized piece of styrofoam in your wad BEFORE you add the shot

 

This makes more volume in the stack, not less.  It fixes a sunken crimp, not a crumpled hull wall.

 

Good luck, GJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 said:

There are differences in hulls!   The Win AA hull is quite a bit smaller on it's internal volume than, say, a Federal or any European hull.  Fed and Euro hull have cylindrical hull walls.   Winchester and Remington have tapered hull walls (thicker down at the base than at the mouth).  Base wads are different between almost all hulls.  Volume varies, and in your case, volume matters.  

 

Loads that fill a Federal will over-fill a Winchester!  

 

Yes, as about 10 pards have offered up already, the OP has a blivet - too much stuff in your five pound bag (aka, Win AA hull).  The easy fix is reduce the amount of powder in the load.   You won't even notice stepping down about 10 grains of black powder.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

+ 1,000 and Ding ding! We have a winner!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I load the AA hull without the slightest problem. I use a Mec Sizemaster as follows; decap and size hull. Seat primer. Drop in GOEX 2F through a funnel from a Lee 4cc scoop. Seat a CB-1138-12 wad with 30# pressure and dump in 1oz. of #8 shot. Hit the starter crimp station and move to the final crimp and done. Makes a very good load. 

If I were you I would try using the Lee 3.7cc scoop with 1oz of shot. 

When I used the Load All; a long time ago, I had my best luck when I cycled it fully and matched the column height to the machine.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just wanted to follow up...

 

The crushed hull AA's loaded fine but were a bit sticky coming out.  I had to pluck them out waaaay more than usual. 

I did try reducing powder and lead.  I still got a little buckle and they wound up underfilled and would dribble shot.  I only made enough for a match until I got that settled so I didn't mess with components much.

 

I swung by the trap range to see what they had in their bin.  Shell Bonanza!!  I grabbed a buffet of Rem gun club (no STS I saw) and Federals hulls.  Had no issue with buckled hulls.  Only issue was with 4 cc BP, 1138 wad and 1 1/8 oz shot, hull was underfilled on both Rem and Fed and didn't close.  Added a couple black eyed peas and that fixed the problem.  I think I'll try a different wad on the next go and try and get the powder down to 3.0 cc and 7/8 oz of shot.

 

OLG was right with AA's being the issue.  At least in with my gear anyway.

 

 

On a separate note...  I notice a most use  size 7 - 8 shot.  4 is min size for CAS.  Does anyone use some of the larger shot?  In theory, wouldn't a larger pellet have more impact than smaller pellets?  Just curious.

Edited by Croc Holiday

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, The Original Lumpy Gritz said:

Larger has more bounce back. ;)

Look for re-claimed shot......

OLG

 

Ah...  Makes sense. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"Added a couple black eyed peas and that fixed the problem.  I think I'll try a different wad on the next go and try and get the powder down to 3.0 cc and 7/8 oz of shot."

 

You might want to give Claybuster a call & discuss your problems with them.  They know a whole bunch about wads :)

800-922-6287

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Yusta B. said:

"Added a couple black eyed peas and that fixed the problem.  I think I'll try a different wad on the next go and try and get the powder down to 3.0 cc and 7/8 oz of shot."

 

You might want to give Claybuster a call & discuss your problems with them.  They know a whole bunch about wads :)

800-922-6287

 

That'd take a while...  I have a lot of problems...  :blink:

  • Haha 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have shot coming out the top get a small pinch of paper towel and put it on top of the shot before crimping.  I use 3/4 to 7/8 oz of shot and never met a target that wouldn't go down.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.